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Ola,
You misunderstand entirely. I am not here to convert you to any form of religion. You have taken a position however that mocks anyone that doesn't believe as you do. You have based that belief on flawed logic...namely that because there is no proof that God exists he cannot exist.
You have fallen into the If, Then trap. IF x is true then y must also be true.
As further proof of the error in you logic. According to your postulation gravity did not exist until Sir Issac Newton proved that it did. You still cannot see gravity, or touch or hear or feel or smell gravity. You can see and feel the effect of gravity. And if one wished to carry this portion of the discussion further God exists because you can see the effect of God through those that believe in him.
Improperly used, the If, Then statement can present those incapable of critical thought with a false representation of the world around them. One of the best examples of how this can be done is an Abbott & Costello routine where Abbott asks Costello if he is in various cities. When Costello responds "no" Abbott explains "if you aren't in any of those cities, then you must be someplace else! and if you are someplace else, then you aren't here!"
WRT, your statement that "we" haven't found the tools to detect God I will suggest you narrow your focus a bit. More correct would be that YOU haven't found the tools to detect God. Perhaps you will, perhaps you won't. A relationship with God is a rather personal thing, one you will have to resolve for yourself. A good start might be to show a little less contempt for those that believe differently form you.
The Bird of Prey
This is his board. All of us, whether subscribers, grandfathers, grandmothers, or just freebie lurkers, participate at his pleasure.
Agreed. But doesn't every community have some static rules. For example posted speed limits, school zones, zoning regulations, laws prohibiting public intoxication, urinating in pubic view etc. ?
IH is becoming a larger community and it will need to react to the challenges that come with that growth. But just because there are more people involved, does that necessarily mean we must abandon the principles on which IH was created? Is it now considered to be acceptable to label someone a pedophile or describe acts of bestiality simply because there are more people participating? Or worse, must we who have thus far built this community abandon our principles simply because a few newcomers find them old-fashioned?
The rules are already established, and have heretofore been enforced. New "rules" are not being proposed. All that is being asked is that the existing rules be enforced without requiring a public outcry.
The Bird of Prey
Ok,
Part two...
So as long as proof of something does not exist, that thing cannot exist. For example if someone choose to "believe" that black holes existed before the first one is proven to exist then you would have to lump them in with the scared, confused, questioning, unsatisfied people in life. Correct?
You have to read the post in question, read the posts to which it's replying, try to understand the interactions that're happening ("Okay, bad post. Did the one he's replying to provoke it? Hmmm... Seems to. What about the ones before it? Okay, looks like we've got a situation that slowly escalated until it got out of hand. Now, where did the 'line' first get crossed? Okay, now what's the history on both of these posters?", etc, etc.
And this is where the problem really lies. And why I've always thought you weren't a particularly good admin.
If the post violates TOU...delete it. If it doesn't, it stays. End of Story. Provoked or not is irrelevant. History between combatants is irrelevant. If you have a "situation" you probably have TOS reports from both sides. Regardless of which side is right or wrong...ALL posts violating the TOU get deleted. End of Story.
WRT, (Geez, I can STILL type that sentence at the speed of light!)
One would think that a programmer of your skills would have incorporated some kind of automated routine that would allow him to select that response without ever having to type it again.
Also, much of the grief you describe could have been avoided by use of the simple responses I suggested earlier. "Reviewed, Post Deleted. and "Reviewed, No action necessary." The community will learn that those are the End of the Story pretty quickly. Those that choose to refuse to accept this final decision can be ignored at that point as they are not desirable members of the community.
The Key to this is you tell them you have "reviewed" the offending message. If you don't tell the user that or if you simply ignore the message altogether you open the interpretation that the admin condones the violations of the TOU.
The Bird of Prey
Hi Charley,
A question, How, exactly, would the Ignore feature (as described) lead to the destruction of IH?
Other sites have an ignore feature that completely removes the posts of a user from view by the user initiating the ignore. The proposed Ignore feature would still allow a user to view the posts made by the "ignored" poster, It would not allow either party to send a message directly to the other. Since being "ignored" by a user would have no effect on a users "ranking" here at IH. there would be no benefit to a group "ignoring" another user. In fact, because they would be unable to respond directly to the user they've chosen to "Ignore", the "ignored" user could post without fear of direct assault.
The Primary purpose of this kind of "ignore" feature is to protect a user from a cyberstalker. I cannot see how allowing users the option of protecting themselves in this fashion could cause harm to the growth of IH. I actually see a potential for additional growth from users that might otherwise shy away from message boards altogether for fear of being stalked.
Additionally, If being polite and responding to a TOS complaint would harm IH, why should we bother with having an admin at all? Just open the gates and let anarchy reign supreme.
The Bird of Prey
I'm sorry but this just doesn't wash.
In the last 15 days there have been approximately 16,000 posts. That is less than 1100 a day. I'll take things even farther and throw out 4 days for the lower activity on the weekend and we still are less than 1500 posts per day.
As a general rule 3% of the population will be causing some kind of trouble. Although IH gives the appearance of being less troublesome than other setups I'm going to double that figure to 6%. That translates to fewer that 100 posts per day that require some kind of "attention" from the admin. As Matt has indicated a significant number of these are password or account access related. But for the purpose of this example I will use the entire pool as TOS complaints.
At 1 minute per it would take an hour and a half to deal with them all.
With all of the automated features available to him (or could be made available in short order), most messages could be dealt with in much less than one minute. Once in a while he might have to spend a little time on a situation, but the majority of his responses would be either "Reviewed, Post removed." or "Reviewed, No action needed."
No massive staff required at this level. Just attention to the details.
The Bird of Prey
Before I continue I want to make certain I understand your position completely.
According to your posts God cannot exist because there is no proof that he exists. He cannot be detected by any of the five senses, nor shown to anyone in any from that can readily be recognized.
Does this accurately describe your position?
Curious to know what you think of my idea about killing the TOU to just "Be courteous. Post about stocks."
Well, that would certainly widen the scope of the things you would have to decide. On the surface it would seem to eliminate any need for a user to complain about a post. In reality it would allow a user to complain about almost any post.
Define Courtesy. Emily Post? Martha Stewart? Robert's Rules of Order? American? European? Middle Eastern? Asian? African? Hispanic? Will it be static, or change as you learn?
Post about stocks. What if the post contains a small amount of Non stock related material? At what point does the Non stock related material make it a post that isn't about stocks?
Define a "post about Stocks". Would "NPCT sucks!" or "NPCT to the moon!" qualify?
Everything you have outlined in the current TOU would become a subjective decision. For example "What is a sexual reference?"
It sounds like you are moving away from the original concept for IH and progressing towards the anarchy that reigns supreme on other boards.
A point to ponder...
The solution to any problem or set of problems is the acquisition of a different problem or set of problems.
The Bird of Prey
Actually, I did not receive a PM from you. Therefore I am unable to answer your question. Feel free to resend in either Public or Private mode.
Perhaps you'll catch a rendition of that P.D.Q. Bach masterpiece...
Grand Serenade for an Awful Lot of Winds and Percussion.
Never was sure if he meant "a large group" or "a really bad group".
The Bird of Prey
Original,
Actually, the ills described are man's doing, not God's. We have been granted true free will. We can do good or evil as we choose. We can choose to believe in God or deny his existence. In order for it to be true free will, ALL are granted the right to choose. Unfortunately some choose evil, some to choose to value the material, some choose to ignore the plight of their fellow, some choose to exploit thier fellow.
God "allows" the evil to exist because if he interfered he would remove the true free will. He has given us the tools to make the right choices and has shown us the way. But like the parent that has told the child repeatedly that the stove is hot, sometimes you have to let the child find that out for himself. So, knowing that it will hurt the child the parent can only wait and be ready to comfort the child when he discovers the truth. Like many people, the child could not believe the stove would be hot and cause pain.
So many feel that because they seem to act with impunity there will be no consequences for their actions. because they haven't been burned, they won't be.
What I find immensely humorous about this belief is that they display an equal belief in...
For every action there is an equal but opposite reaction.
The Bird of Prey
I'm listening.
You are asking for a vindictive, controlling TOS policy.
Whoa! Where do you get that from? I am only asking that the CURRENT TOS policy as found here http://www.investorshub.com/boards/Terms.asp be enforced. Nothing more nothing less.
To have that, the administration would have to review each case and act as judge and jury.
Unfortunately that is the job description of a message board admin. It is one of the reasons I personally don't like the job.
As for the rest of your commentary, an Ignore feature as described would lessen the workload on the admin and the response to the submitter of a TOS report would be polite and respectful.
I can certainly understand you difficulty comprehending these issues.
The Bird of Prey
Perhaps if he spent more time on his admin duties his picks would be so hot.
I too am grandfathered. I have made a voluntary financial contribution as well as contributed time in testing various features, providing Matt with advice when he needed it, etc.
I also have hand some experience running message boards and understand better than most the difficulties associated with managing such entities. If you read carefully most of my suggestions are geared toward easing the load on the admin. I did not consider Poet's post as anything more than a "suggestion", though I will concede it was a strong one. Unfortunately, it needed to be.
I've put my money where my mouth is and if necessary would make the commitment to pay additional funds for additional services that I desire.
That said, IH is, by and large, well run...that is why when something is amiss it sticks out like a sore thumb.
What seems unusual to me is why you insist on trying to engage someone in a conversation that they have repeatedly stated they have no desire to continue with you. You initiate an exchange with Poet at every opportunity even if you are not mentioned in any way shape or form, further you always take an antagonistic tone with her. Even my #1 detractor and I can mange to do a pretty good job of leaving each other alone when we want to. We have even had respectful exchanges from time to time.
As a general rule I don't seek out conversations with people I don't like or that don't like me. You should try it sometime.
Chris,
I must admit I'm with Poet on this one.
Matt, has started to take on a startling resemblance to a certain former SI Admin in style and appearance of inconsistent enforcement of the rules as they are written in the current TOS.
The Rules of engagement are clearly defined in the TOU, but lately haven't been enforced as consistently or persistently as has been the custom here at IH.
Poet has made several suggestions that if implemented would go a long way toward expanding the users ability to police themselves without Admin action being necessary.
I will reiterate and expand upon them as follows.
1. An Ignore feature - Specifically barring unwanted PM's from a particular individuals account. Additionally, the user would be unable to send either a public or private message to the individual being ignored. I would go the additional step of barring the "ignored" user from responding to a post made by the person initiating the "ignore". All posts made by both individuals would still be visible to all parties at all times.
This would function as an automatic To and From ban on both individuals. It would not stop a user from speaking about another user, but it would make it more difficult for an extended exchange between the two to take place.
2. A response to the user making a TOS Report should be mandatory. That this isn't happening is ridiculous. Doesn't have to be elaborate, just what action was taken and why. For example; "Post deleted for TOS violation". As it stands now one can submit a post for violating the TOS and if you follow up to find out it still stands, you'd have to assume that Matt didn't think the post warranted deletion. There have been a number of posts reported recently that described sex acts with animals that remained for several days until enough people complained to get them deleted. The purpose of forcing the admin to respond to the user making the complaint is to also force him to actually review the post in question.
I understand Matt's new schedule keeps him rather busy. But things are being allowed to "slip by", and the excuse "I didn't have enough time" doesn't cut it. If Matt cannot manage his time sufficiently to get the job done right then he should hire someone who can or at least hire an assistant.
The Bird of Prey
Good Day to you Poet!
As I said when I asked, I am only curious and wishing to expand my knowledge base. I certainly am not looking to start an argument. I do hope that in the coming days you will expand upon what you wrote. I'll try to at least match you in descriptive terms as well.
My roots are a bit mixed. some English, some Scottish, some Irish, some American Indian and Lord knows what else. My Mother got her college degree, My Dad did a tour in the MArine Corps. My family never had much in the way of material wealth, but we never were on any govt. program either. We always had what we needed, and usually most of the things we wanted as well. Both my parents were hard workers (they are retired now) and instilled that same work ethic in all of their children. I know what it is to be looked down on, it seems there is always one group or another able to thumb its collective nose at someone for some reason.
I agree with you on the muddying of the labels "Conservative" and "Liberal". However I have a different definition of "Liberal". In my view "liberals" hold that Government is the answer to all social problems. Whatever is wrong...the government can fix it. This kind of Liberal is found in all political parties and at all levels. Our education systems is littered with this view.
But I digress, In my worldview, "conservatives" look to the individual for the answer to a problem.
I agree that Governments need to insure that all of it's citizens have an equal chance to succeed, And that race, creed, etc should not be factored into allocating resources. The resources should be available to all...equally.
Scholarships based on merit...not on race, nation of origin, etc.
Employment based on merit...not on race, nation of origin, etc.
Housing based on merit...not on race, nation of origin, etc.
Everything I and the rest of my family have, we have earned, nothing given.
IMHO, a great many think they are liberal because they care for their fellow man and wish to help. Caring is not the exclusive domain of Liberals. I believe they simply operate from a different definition of "help". This is best summed up by an old axiom. the first half is "liberal" methodology, the second conservative.
Give a man a fish and he eats for the day.
Teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime.
The Bird of Prey
I love being a liberal almost as much as I love being a girl.
Ok, I've been holding back but I must ask (in the nicest, most non threatening, genuinely curious fashion)...
Why do you love being a liberal?
You may, of course, decline to respond and rest assured that no rebuttal from moi will be forthcoming. I can understand why you would love being a girl. I am merely trying to increase my understanding of liberals.
One note of insight into moi.
In order for good to exist there must be evil. Therefore the need for opposites of all types; boys & girls, cats & dogs or Liberals and Conservatives. Without the one there would be no need to label the other.
I'll be having dinner with my folks in a few, I'll be back later this evening to see what kind of mess this makes.
BoP
Major Payne 1995 - Damon Wayans
Wings 1927 - I honestly don't remember any of the stars names. Be sure to get the original B&W. I think there is one of Turner's colorized monstrosities running around out there.
>>There is a gap between $0.82 and $1.02, but I have my doubts of it filling.
If it does that might be a good entry point.
In my experience, strong C&H formations will have the entire handle within 10% of the high point of the cup. It is possible that the C&H will hold even with this downturn, but any further price decline will confirm my call of a break in the C&H.
Amazing how often the news and TA confirm each other.
It's just not worth the risk until something else happens.
My sentiments exactly. IMHO, the stock is now in a consolidation phase. It will likely trade between it's strongest support and resistance points. Muell may have a better handle on this but I see the LT support as right near the $1 range and LT resistance as around $1.75. There should be ample opportunity for short term traders to profit from the price swings as the recent gains are digested. It was recently speculated that a Cup & Handle pattern was forming on a short term basis. That pattern has broken down and it is to early to tell what new pattern may be forming. However, LT patterns are still bullish. Much is still to be written. News of financing could be a catalyst. Looking forward to the 10Q.
The Bird of Prey
looks to me like you made it by 40 seconds.
Some of my favorite movies...(omitting those already mentioned.)
Sunset Blvd. - I'm ready for my close up! Priceless!
Casablanca - They don't write 'em like this anymore.
The Blues Brothers - We're on a Mission from God.
2001 A Space Odyssey - Brilliant visual extravaganza...even if you aren't stoned.
Gone with the Wind - Probably the best ever.
Citizen Kane - Rosebud.
Wings - Silent film that will make you forget it's a silent film.
The Enemy Below - Great war movie.
Star Trek: The Wrath of Kahn - by itself it's enough to make a trekker out of almost anyone.
Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring - The books made fantasy a respectable medium, the movie is just as good.
Major Paine - Hilarious primer on child rearing. Ridding the closet of monsters is a riot!
Ladyhawke - Love conquers all.
Excalibur - Camelot, Arther, Lancelot, Love, Betrayal, Revival...a great story well told.
The Maltese Falcon - The definitive detective story.
Airplane! - I am serious, and don't call me Shirley.
Young Frankenstein - Mel Brooks at his best, same for Gene Wilder, Madeline Kahn, Marty Feldman, Teri Garr, Peter Boyle, etc.
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly - Spaghetti Westerns, gotta love 'em
The Green Berets - John Wayne, War movie. Need I say more?
The Ten Commandments - Epic on the grand scale.
I'll stop now before I get carried away.
Maybe I'll post my worst list later...it's much shorter
~~~~~~~~~COMPX 3/21/02~~~~~~~~~~~
Previous Close (1833)
1800 Joemoney
1811 alexed
1815 BoP
1840 WTMHouston
1850 Phil (The) bullrider
1854 timhyma
1868.2 Albert
I've been lobbying for it for the last year. It's one of Bob's "I don't like it so I'm not gonna have it" features. It's counterproductive to getting a lot of hits to the site. I guess as a site owner he will have to weigh the value of those hits generated by a flame war as compared to those users that see such activity and never darken the door again. But you do seem to have had a recent spate of luck in getting management to listen so perhaps things will change. I'm with you on an ignore feature.
Nobel? I thought it was the No Belt prize!
There but for an Ignore button go I.
winged keel - it's a sailing thing. Maybe I'll explain another time.
If the America's Cup could get itself unbolted, I'm sure we can find a way to counteract your crazy glue. 8-) I wonder if a winged keel would work?
United Nations Framework Convention met there in '97. Out of that convention came a document known as the Kyoto Protocol (sounds like a Ludlum novel),
Here is a link to the text of the document.
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1997/global.warming/stories/treaty/
It was all that "liberal" talk and no one knowing what Kyoto was that got me. 8>)
Are you for or against capital punishment? - FOR - not because of the usual reasons though, Our society as a whole still seeks the "perception" of justice being done...even if it takes 20 years or more.
Are you for or against legalized abortion? - used as a form of birth control I am against it. Of course those most likely to do so have already traipsed a long way down the immorality path.
What are your views on gun control? - The exisiting laws are suffucient. Further intrusions are violations of the 2nd Amendment.
Is your impression of the NRA generally good or generally bad? - For the most part they do a good job, but they have gotten carried away from time to time.
Is your impression of the ACLU generally good or generally bad? - They have done far more harm than good. More often than not they have undermined the Constitution and destroyed freedoms they say they wish to protect.
Do you favor condom distribution in schools? - NO, especially the lower grades.
Do you think public school teachers are qualified to teach grammar school children about sex? - NO many public school teachers aren't qualified to teach grammer school. Additionally who is going to decide "WHAT" is taught about sex? the government? I don't think I want the government teaching anyone's kids about sex given its current track record on the basics; Reading, Writing and Arithmatic.
Do you think doctors are overpaid? - In a number of disciplines yes. But not all.
Do businesses create oppression? - No, people create oppression
What are your views on global warming? - Hmmm, lets see...Earth has been around 5 or 6 billion years...Man, for roughly the last 20,000 give or take...been keeping weather charts over a limited part of the earth's surface for a couple hundred years, only in the last 50 or so have we gotten serious and looked at everything...we still can't get 100% accuracy for even 24-48 hours ahead... and we think we can predict a rise in the overall temp over the next 100 years? PUHLEASE!
Do you support Kyoto? - If by this you mean the UN conference on greenhouse gasses...NO
Is being gay nature or nurture? - To ignore either would be foolish. I'm not saying a person can be raised gay, but our environment shapes much of our personality. Why would it be different for gays?
How do you feel about gay marriage? - Should be up to the individual states not the federal govt. Believe it or not there will be people that won't "change their mind" about gays regardless of what laws are passed to grant them rights. Also once we start basing laws on sexual preference where will we draw the line on what is "special need" and illegal?
Should the welfare budget be cut? - No, but it can still be mananged better.
Should the military budget be cut? - NO, there is a need for better allocation and cost control.
How do you feel about missile defense? Absolutely, some here earlier said it would be good for up to a few incoming missles but not hundreds. THe threat we now face is much more likely to be a small or single missle attack than it is to be a mass attack.
Should the budgets of the NEA, public radio and public television be cut? - Yes, Private funding can meet their needs, besides even with public funds the "begging" programs still dominate the airwaves. Further it would allow the NEA to support whatever it chose without fear of "misuse of public funds" backlash.
Should the AIDS research budget be increased? - I believe the budget to be adequate for the threat posed to this country.
Are standardized tests racist? - NO, they are even less culturally biased than they used to be.
Is there such a thing as reverse racial discrimination? - If you mean; can the minorities discriminated against a majority? yes, and there are programs that make it more difficult for the alleged majority to obtain certain positions.
Are perjury and obstruction of justice by a president impeachable offenses? - YES
Should the word "God" be taken off our money and out of patriotic songs? - Aboslutely NOT! People seem to forget that GOD stands above all religions. If the reference were specific to a particular brand I might agree, but even the pagan religions called 'em GOD.
Thanks to GW we finally have an accurate descriptive term...
Compassionate Conservative.
Regrettably, I must remove myself from consideration for Board Moderator. Someone else will have to step forward to run the thread as I will no longer be able to participate.
The Bird of Prey
Is that anything like choosing the lesser of two evils?
All this talk of a**h*les today reminded me of a little rhyme from days gone by...
The thing to remember about a**h*les is this...
Some are bigger than others.
Some are easier to wipe.
But behind every a**h*le,
is a load of crap.
The Bird of Prey
~~~~~~~~~COMPX 3/15/02~~~~~~~~~~~
Previous Close (1854)
1805 ez2 ((hope I'm wrong))
1824 timhyma
1835 BoP
1845 Muell
1858 Matt
1862 Poet (trying to lower Matt's odds)
1871 Joemoney
The Bird of Prey
nah, not at all. In fact, my company just arrived so I'll have to leave you to your own devices. I intend to embark on some meaningful social interaction.
ta ta
The Bird of Prey
Sometimes, those interpretations can be wrong.
The Bird of Prey
see http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=302983
The Bird of Prey
Joe,
Be careful, next thing you know you'll be accused of fighting my battles for me, By him and all his "friends" that help him fight his battles.
But what do I know, I'm just an ignorant (insert preferred expletive here)!
The Bird of Prey
see http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=302983
The Bird of Prey
see http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=302983
The Bird of Prey