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Agreed. No more money sent to treasury.
The treasury needs to send money back, get rid of warrants and have sp documented as being paid off because they have been paid.
Remember, "massively compensated like a payday lender"?
The "Secret Plan" makes more sense than saying let them keep all money, cash in warrants, and even convert sp.
I am for the secret plan. Whatever rights the ship. Whatever it's called. Whoever takes credit. Get it done.
More gov taking. Then spending like it's nothing because it is nothing to them. They print money electronically. That money taken wont matter much to them, but to the investors who lost time and money. Years of their lives? It's everything.
That would be a travesty for that kind of ending of 14 year plus coverup. With not one person held accountable. No one should want that outcome.
Bad precedent.
*Disclaimer
JMO
How in rop case or similar, where missing out on dividends is an issue, could they get any actual award of money AND the court, or whoever, not recognizing sp paid?
If the story as is, FOR NOW, is gov wasn't paid back or compensated. Principal + int.
Also we are massively undercap because sp/lp debt on books.
So we never paid back debt and are undercap.
Why would plaintiffs get an award of monetary damages IF that story stands of never paid & undercap?
I believe they have been paid and if money was returned, especially all of it, then jr's did miss and continue to miss value and commons as well.
Or maybe if some money was returned and debt was removed then they might be at a specific buffer then could start paying partial dividends. But how does that story stand and plaintiffs win?
Based on gov story, no one has missed dividends.
At best, maybe someone help me out, with $27billion returned and debt off books because nws is ruled crap. Crap, I believe is a legal term. We could then see a partial divi paid to jr because at $112B, I think, might be at a buffer allowing partial div paid???
I don't know. That's why I am asking.
Thanks for replies.
*Disclaimer
JMO
Yeah, it's a bit of a reach for that reasoning of needing more time to understand the lie.
But....
Maybe more time for gov on how to save face when shtf?
Thanks for responding.
Well that's okay. I still enjoy reading your posts.
Thanks.
P.s.
That bridge you referred to. It goes somewhere, right?
Cuz the last one I bought didn't.
FnF FTW
I'm holding longterm. I was wondering how long I would have an opportunity to add at such low prices.
Always believed around the time a new admin arrived would be the real action. Whether the exiting admin did something on their way out, or new arrivals acted once in place.
Holding until the end and adding when I can.
Thanks Louie
*Disclaimer
JMO
How much longer will I be able to keep buying this dip?
And will it hover around .70's - 1.00? Or lower?
Yes, I'm serious.
Though I believe the true end to this is a ways off. Meaning 1yr minimum. I actually still believe it most likely happens closer to a new administration. End of '24 if obiddy admin tries to get it done before exiting or early '25 with new admin.
Again full value, whatever it might be, I believe is no time soon. Unless of course something amazing happens.
I'm asking about prices running on catalysts. In the meantime, while we wait for release.
Like 2013, 2014, 2016/17, 2019.
It wasn't anything meaningful, but the prices moved.
I add when I can. I'm just wondering.
Thanks.
*Disclaimer
JMO
Okay, thanks for response.
Come on, man! Now, you know I don't believe that, but humor me with a serious answer. Love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks.
Yeah, plans are in place because not much planning was needed and 14 years was plenty of time to plan.
Also, when that plan actually is acted upon is a major problem. What is the plan? Great or terrible? When will it happen? Just terrible.
If the plan is great for all and happens a.s.a.p. then I am more than happy to say I was wrong about the timeline and priority of this.
BUT......
Given what we've seen, I don't trust any of these people in charge or involved. There's always a catch. Hope I'm wrong.
*Disclaimer
JMO
If lamberth just needs more time to review damning evidence that proves he was lied to and nws intent was unreasonable, to say the least, would or could that bring a decision of nws gone and revert back to 10% divi agreement?
Where we were before nws. The 10% also brings with it the ability to repay sp. And so sp will be considered paid and over by $27B est.?
Is that possible? I don't need to say what I already know of the whole c-ship, but just wondering about this.
If lamb is lied to and nws intent was malicious then could that undo nws, revert back to 10% w/ability to repay?
Then being due refund of overpayment?
Because they would be considered repaid under original terms.
So lp go bye-bye?
Again c-ship fraud unwind the whole thing. Free FnF.
But, in the meantime, pertaining to lamb's case. What say you?
Thanks for any replies.
Let's go! I'm with you.
This video explains it all. Enjoy.
https://www.kapwing.com/videos/6260d84a155d6f00fbeb8ec5
The only way a settlement of true benefit occurs will be the damning evidence they want to avoid being made public. Otherwise why change what works for them unless forced?
So purgatory with policy influence. Using Fannie Freddie resources at their discretion.
Sadly.
*Disclaimer
JMO
G been paid. They need to walk away before exposed.
I'm sure every delay, remand, and postponement had a good reason.
G o v will tell you so. Just ask.
Remember july11 or earliest convenience?
Well 9 weeks longer is very convenient.
Also, "unless counsel is unavailable" for 9.19.22 court?
Uh oh! Here we go again.
I guess I have time to add to this bag I'm holding.
It strengthens the grip. That's a positive.
Silver lining folks. Silver lining.
Postponed, but WHY?
Corruption?
I'm down on my position as well. Not as bad as ackman, but bad. I was just wondering if my sub .68 buy counted as a big boy purchase. I am still confident in how things turn out for us. Even with me staring at red.
I bought some for under .68 just a day or two before it moved up.
Do I count?
How's your day going? Having a good weekend hopefully.
Good job calling him out. Well deserved.
Here's to a good June.
I read it as gb mocking him.
Cal is a joke. Elephant in a mousehole mark.
Failed miserably in his position of power. Talked a big game. Just talk, no action.
Not much substance.
*Disclaimer
JMO
Treas. Fhfa corruption. Lp 0 Wts 0. Paid in full. Fnma Fmcc due a refund.
That makes sense because of how many shares would be added to the float. That would change the percentages of ownership. Gotcha.
Thanks.
Oh, okay. Thanks for clarification.
But he would still need more risk management and approval into these investments, correct?
Big boys have as much as they can. Isn't Ackman limited to 10% or something close to that of ownership of each gse common stock?
He already has about 10% of each, doesn't he?
Besides, it's other people's money he is investing. He has to abide by some sort of regulation and manage risk accordingly than if it was all his personal money.
That's my thought about the situation anyway.
Another thing is not all rich and successful investors are perfect records with their picks. He'd be a trillionaire and so would buffett.
Have conviction Clark. It will happen. How high? When?
I don't know. But hang tight.
*Disclaimer
JMO
Thanks for response. I was hoping not because even a person who knows very little of the situation could see exactly what the intent was for nws. Those memos and e-mails are so obvious.
Thanks again.
How do courts see these documents, that are obvious to anyone who reads them, still find a way out and not be considered corrupt?
I would say incompetent, but it's hard to say incompetent when these fed judges reach such a high level.
Maybe a new lawyer from a crap school could be incompetent, but fed judges don't get there on accident.
So........ C O R R U P T it is.
Thanks.
*Disclaimer
JMO
So, we'll know when they allow us to know, I guess.
Thank you for such a detailed response.
So we got only a fraction of what is out there, but nothing has been seen?
Lamberth will be, maybe, the first time anything like those papers and some sealed evidence that is entered officially?
If so, maybe this time something happens.
It would make much more sense why courts keep skating around the issue.
They want the smoking gun, dna, eyewitnesses, video footage and a full confession. Unless totally in-your-face evidence, the courts look the other way.
AMAZING! Isn't it?
Thanks Guido. You have a good night.
*Disclaimer
JMO
So those emails or memos?
Like from parrot.
Have they seen their day in court yet?
Are the emails and memos I've seen posted also a part of the evidence that Lamberth will see?
How long have those documents been available?
Were those documents recently unsealed /revealed?
And that is why nothing truly positive has come from them entered as evidence? No court officially saw those e-mails and memos yet?
It would be amazing to see a court look at that evidence and do nothing about it.
Also will be interesting to see those sealed documents.
Any answers provided will be appreciated. Thanks.
So the rule for the framework won't come into play until 1st q of '23. Another 10 months? Wow. Hold on everyone. We might get whiplash we're moving so fast.
*Disclaimer
JMO
As a longterm holder I've gotten very used to seeing little to no movement or large swings.
These stocks seem, as of late, to be out of gas. Wolf has been cried so much that no one cares any more.
But the wolf, action or real news in this matter, will eventually arrive. And only then will people care.
So it is the same group watching. No "outsider" cares anymore. Basically they don't want to be bothered until something real happens. I can understand why though.
Jp, commons are going to do just fine. Just more waiting. Sadly. Never knowing when it really is happening.
*Disclaimer
JMO
Lawyers Digging Into GSE Dirt Find Gold - Proof Of Covering Up Facts
Jul. 25, 2016 7:53 AM ETFederal National Mortgage Association (FNMA), FMCC
Glen Bradford
4.53K Followers
Summary
Treasury and FHFA were in possession of newer financial projections at the time of the net worth sweep, a fact undisclosed in Judge Lamberth's court when he ruled.
Hamish Hume's final brief in Perry Capital demonstrates Treasury's attempt to take two sides and FHFA's attempt to hide in clear sight.
In the event that the government is unable to get away with stealing GSE money, GSE equity shares should be worth more than they trade for today.
Fannie Mae (OTCQB:FNMA) and Freddie Mac (OTCQB:FMCC) are two publicly traded Fortune 50 private companies that have worthless equity because the government is taking all the money for itself. Any positive value to accrue to the equity would require a change in course from the status quo. The best opportunity for change is legal rulings against the government's actions to circumvent the integrity of the GSE's capital structure. The biggest risk historically has been rulings against plaintiffs, and sure enough Judge Lamberth and Pratt both ruled in favor of the government, basically saying that the government can do whatever it wants. The purpose of this article is to lay out events in the past two weeks to show that support plaintiffs in their appeal for Perry Capital as well as the lawsuits in general against the GSE status quo.
Investment Opportunity In Brief: Right now, the practical valuation for GSE equities is a call option on the probability that a portion of their net income belongs to the companies themselves. As such, preferreds trade roughly at 20 cents on the dollar and common shares trade at around $2 when they used to trade over $50. To date, no lawsuit against the government accounting fraud, its taking of 100% for nothing and the conservatorship in general has made it past the motion to dismiss. If the government has its way and plaintiff lawsuits have no merit or are ruled collectively to have no merit, the GSEs are worthless, HERA undermines the constitution, and the FDIC should consider managing more conservatorships for its own benefit. Considering that at current G-Fees, the GSEs combined make $15B/annum to distribute to equity, valuations starting around $20 have been proposed by William Ackman and Richard X. Bove.
Hamish Hume Demonstrates FHFA And Treasury Arguments Collapse Under Own Weight
Hamish Hume represents the class plaintiffs. In a recent legal filing wrapping up the scheduled part of the Perry Capital Appeal, Hume decapitated the obfuscation inherent in the government's legal filings that Judge Sweeney classified as "schizophrenic" looking for a better explanation. First off, Hume shows that FHFA tells it how it is:
Instead, FHFA goes on and on rehashing an argument that Hamish points out lacks substance:
Second off, Hume demonstrates that Treasury is having difficulty having its cake and eating it too without taking separate sides to the same issue:
Plaintiffs have finally circled the government encampment in this lawsuit. The government was able to escape the original Lamberth ruling by submitting an incomplete subset of facts. Fairholme has recently done good work at exposing these facts.
Fairholme's CFC Discovery Exposes Falsifications
The most interesting part of all of this is that Lamberth ruled that it doesn't matter what the administrative record would be:
Nevertheless, plaintiffs have subsequently produced documents proving that the government lied:
Alright, so let's see what they allegedly lied about:
From the start of conservatorship, the government has been downplaying the true profitability of the GSEs, treating them as scapegoats and forcing them to report net losses even though they were cash flow machines making billions of dollars. These non-cash losses were due for reversal, but the purpose of them would have been completely undermined if the net worth sweep wasn't put into place to reclassify them as government revenue. Here comes the mic drop moment, FHFA and Treasury withheld information from court:
The government "found out" the GSEs were going to be forced to reverse their non-cash losses that the government forced them to take on to justify the imposition of conservatorship. Instead of reversing them and letting the earnings accrue to the capital structure, Treasury and FHFA conspired together to take them all. Plaintiffs say that this is in violation of the law. If the plaintiffs are able to find a judge who will rule in their favor the government's profit sweep will end. Notice how the defendants justified their actions years ago by referencing data that was inaccurate at the time the action was taken:
These facts were not known publicly at the time and the government was given the benefit of the doubt. Now that facts have come out in discovery proving the government's legal filings were incomplete and relied on inaccurate information, one would reasonably begin to think that judges would see more merit in plaintiff claims. After all, the money doesn't lie and the government has been in charge of where it has gone since conservatorship has begun and where it's gone is to those in charge. One feature of capital structure in corporations is to prevent management from stealing money from shareholders, not to mention the entire company, among other things.
Class Plaintiffs Respond to FDIC Surprise Last Words
For those unfamiliar, the FDIC filed an Amicus Brief saying that they could declare sovereign immunity under their statutory law and hoped that whatever happens in this court does not negatively impact that case law. The class plaintiffs have now responded:
Pre-empting out of existence pre-receivership obligations is not supported by the case law. As such, the forecasted impact of the FDIC's Amicus Brief that was filed after the court was in theory fully briefed is negligible.
How Did We Get Here
Hank Paulson wrote about it in his book. The planned takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was to catch them by surprise and cut their heads off before they knew what was happening:
The book Too Big To Fail offers a little more insight into exactly how Paulson planned it all:
The plan was to take over the companies, write down their assets and issue themselves enough equity to eventually justify taking everything from the shareholders at the time.
From the vantage point of Treasury and officials, non-governmental shareholders were an issue because at the time the financial markets were crumbling and there was a possibility that some country could have tried to stir up a panic in the GSE debt market. By coming in and injecting itself into the capital structure, taking control, and effectively eliminating shareholder interests with the net worth sweep, the government has effectively turned them into government agencies. The latest push to build the CSS/CSP, do risk sharing transactions, and the like basically finish off that transformation. Unfortunately, these things take time and probably will get at least partially thrown away if the plaintiffs get a legal victory in the coming weeks.
Never before had the US Government been party to an agreement where it benefited through stock issuance by writing down the other party's assets. In this case, it was by design in preparation for the net worth sweep which has been in preparation for receivership and spinning off their core assets. Here's the problem, this plan has left them with little to no capital because it's all been taken by the government. Voiding the net worth sweep may or may not resolve that issue and as such conservatorship may persist for some time, which is odd because if the net worth sweep gets voided it would prove that FHFA and Treasury broke the law to take the GSEs money and in that line of reasoning it just feels odd to let FHFA keep controlling the GSEs. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know how exactly this plays out.
What I do know is that there are two bets you can take. The first is on the preferred equity. The terms of Fannie Mae preferred can be found here. The terms of Freddie Mac's preferred can be found here. What's really odd about this is that the government owns preferred stock but it's not listed on these websites. It's probably because it's not freely traded, but it's pretty clear that they don't want their preferred shares to get confused with our preferred shares. The government details the terms of its preferred shares on its own website here.
The second bet is on the common equity. The common equity has more exposure to the way that the government decides to handle resolving the conservatorships in the event the net worth sweep ends. In the AIG case, the common stock was further diluted beyond just the warrants. In the GSE case, I'm really looking forward to those BlackRock documents being produced in discovery and made public. Here's what the government says about why the public shouldn't see those:
The fact that Christopher H. Dickerson points out that these documents it doesn't want produced during discovery are 8 years old, still the subject of significant public interest, and would likely be the subject of intense publicity and public scrutiny can only logically be explained by their inclusion of projections aligned with the forensic accounting work by Adam Spittler.
In that case, it would undermine the government's narrative that conservatorship was warranted if they showed that the GSEs were not in crisis and they would be able to meet their obligations as they came due for the foreseeable future. Judge Sweeney has been fully briefed since June 10th and has had access to this information since May 27th. As far as timeline goes, I'd love to see more of these documents released before the Perry Capital Appeals ruling. Further, no dates have been set for the Delaware or the Kentucky lawsuits.
Summary and Conclusion
As of last week the Perry Capital Appeal is fully briefed, in theory. There is of course the possibility, albeit small, that the judges ask for further briefing. At this point in time, the plaintiffs have been able to run circles around the government's legal defense and supplement the record with facts proving that the government purposefully tried to mislead lower courts. I expect a ruling from Perry Capital in the next 4-6 weeks (before August 31).
As such, last week I accessed my last aspect of liquidity and pulled a 401k loan for around $11K that I'll be using to buy GSE preferreds. I anticipate that the Perry Capital ruling will at the very least vacate Judge Lamberth's dismissal and the preferreds should return to pre-Lamberth highs. It is possible and I think it is the likely scenario that his ruling is reversed instead of just vacated and sent back. My disposition comes from my interpretation that an agreement that guarantees insolvency when the law requires actions providing solvency is flatly illegal.
Even still, if the judges are unable to come to this conclusion at this point in time, the more that the legal system digs into this the less credible the government's defense should look and here's why. The cash doesn't lie. Since conservatorship was imposed, two companies at their highest capital levels in history have been bled to insolvency and over $100B has been siphoned from them to the government. If conservatorship was never imposed, the GSEs would never have run into the purported problems that they are accused of having. I expect the preferreds to eventually return to par.
I don't expect the government to shut down the GSEs (they make too much money). The plan wasn't ever to shut them down to begin with. From what I can deduce from Paulson's book and the government narrative, the number one goal of nationalizing them was simply to provide certainty to GSE debt markets. Years later, lessons have been learned and internally reform has been happening. The lawsuits have come a long way since they were originally filed and now legal rulings will have the benefit of recently produced discovery, some of which may still be produced before the Perry Capital Appeals ruling.
Editor's Note: This article discusses one or more securities that do not trade on a major U.S. exchange. Please be aware of the risks associated with these stocks.
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I was referring to common.
Preferreds trade differently. Still both very boring.
Congrats if you are up on a trade and locked some in.
I'm longterm holding, not daytrading. So bored.
Exactly. NOT INDEPENDENT.
Self dealing. If not independent then how could FnF expect reasonable actions or negotiations on their behalf.
Two gov agencies negotiating with themselves.
Fair? No.
*Disclaimer
JMO
Trump's letter said nws was scam, socialism, and theft from american citizens brought to you by oba/biddy.
The commons he referred to was warrants.
Not sp.
He is not going to write a letter of theft for the purpose of stealing more.
Stealing implies taking of something, money in this case, that didn't belong to them (gov). Socialism, the giving away of that stolen money.
So not only is he calling nws a scam, but theft. So nws goes bye bye and return the overage of $27billion (over 10% int).
So that means lp can kick rocks.
Don't get me wrong, the whole ship is a fraud. It should all be unwound. Warrants are garbage. Optics can kick rocks as well.
The point of this post is stating trump's message in plain English.
If nws is scam then unwind.
If unwind then 10% is back on table.
If 10% is back then we are due a refund.
The refund is the money gov stole.
Cashing in commons meant warrants and nothing else.
Privatize means.....well you know.
He was not talking of sp conversion.
I myself look forward to lp zeroed. Warrants are trash too.
Gov go away. You aren't needed. You never were.
Pardon the grammar. I typed this in a rush.
Have a good night.
*Disclaimer
JMO
That temporary penny increase would most likely bring a few posts reminding us commons are worthless and going to ten cents. And we should enjoy that penny while it lasts and maybe use that as a top to sell at?
I can't take any of the appointments to these positions of power seriously until they prove their worth.
*Disclaimer
JMO
So, no confirmation today?
Not that it would have meant much. IMO
https://www.kapwing.com/videos/6260d84a155d6f00fbeb8ec5
I, for one, will have a belief in courts/ judges / lawyers when evidence, that does exist, is heard and entered officially as evidence. And is not spun into a far -fetched web of bs.
Amazing how much spin and interpretation these law professionals can come up with.
Law school is probably:
1st year - Court procedure and law terms
2nd and 3rd year - Art of bs
This story of gses is out there and painfully obvious as to what is happening and yet nothing.
Lack of action says a lot. And it's nothing good for the integrity and respectability of the court system.
*Disclaimer
JMO