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Yes & no. Yes I think the big bucks under ENZC ticker is gone. In regards to us making big bucks with SAGA, it's possible, but I think it depends on how many ENZC shares people hold. I think the smaller commons will get screwed. Especially those who bought in .30+ range and held all of this time because of what they were led to believe.
However, this is just speculation and I hope I'm proven wrong, but PR's didn't stop coming out under ENZC & start coming out specifically under BGEN & VIRO by coincidence. Personally, I think BGEN will end up with the majority of value, but it won't be realized/disclosed until the deal is done and it's under SAGA.
I could see that. I just don't think it will get anywhere near where we were all led to believe it would go and/or have held 3+ years for. Hope I'm wrong, but with only robustomed + lawsuits left after the deal, it's hard to see anything else.
I hear ya valuator, but I just don't see where else the shares could be coming from.
1. Yes, we'll always have some flippers in the mix, but not under OTCN. We'll see them under ETRF, CDEL, GTSM, NITE, and CSTI
2. If Livingston was able to hold 9.99%, that's roughly 301M shares. Since OTCN began, we've traded 1B+, and they're showing no signs of depleting their never-ending stockpile, so I don't believe it's Livingston.
To clarify, I'm not saying that 100% OTCN shares are coming from Series B conversions. I'm just saying that based on the qty of Series B that Harry holds/held, the fact that Series B don't get dividends & commons do, and that he/wife/daughter already sold the 200M+ commons that were in the trust, I think it's a likely scenario that he converts a decent portion of his series B for commons, so if/when the SAGA deal wraps up, he'll get a sizeable dividend...
In a way, yes..... I don't believe they'll announce and/or we'll know the Africa results until after SAGA is done, which means at that point VIRO would not be under ENZC umbrella anymore. Unfortunately rockie, I don't believe that they'll announce anything BIG under ENZC anymore. I think anything that would actually move the unmovable pps will be announced/disclosed under SAGA, once deal is completed.
That said, I'm sure there's a chance we see a small spike prior to the dividend date, but I'm not even expecting that.
rockie I genuinely don't believe we're gonna see ENZC pps rise to anything even halfway significant. Based on the way the PR's are coming out not (specifically for BGEN, VIRO), it seems they have already began the process of separating them from ENZC. I think our hopes/dreams of seeing ENZC pps appreciate as we were led to believe it would, are over, and now it's all about SAGA (BGEN/VIRO).
Take a look at the snippets below. Notice how pre-SAGA all PR's came out as "ENZC" then mentioned the subs within the PR. Now, they ALL come out as either BGEN or VIRO.
PRE-SAGA ANNOUNCEMENT
POST-SAGA ANNOUNCEMENT
Could be, but at this point (at least given the insanely-limited info that we have), I'm leaning more towards preparing for SAGA dividend. The way I see it, holding on to the series B would likely be to maintain higher % of voting rights, but if the majority of ENZC value is moving to SAGA, leaving ENZC with only "Robustomed" & all of the lawsuits, it would make sense that they'd do what they can to gain a bigger % ownership post-SAGA-deal...
Keep in mind Valuator, that it's only showing conversions thru the end of June. OTCN didn't begin their reign (They worked in tandem with VIRT to drive the pps down without selling/buying at the end of May, but they didn't actually begin selling until June) until the beginning of June. I personally believe that Harry did convert more, but we won't see them until November 20th (Q3 due 11/15 + Charles extension = 11/20).
That said, given that Harry holds roughly half (48%) of all Series B out there, more than double what the rest of them hold, I think he may be the only one of them converting Series B. Then factor in that he and/or his wife/daughter sold all of the commons in the Zhabilov Trust long ago, I think he's going to convert somewhere around half of his Series B, but that's just me. He has Super-majority voting rights with his Series A, and converting a portion of his Series B will allow him to get the SAGA dividend, which series B won't get.
Maga, I'm the one who pointed out Harry's conversion, but he only converted a small percentage of his total. Why not more?
Agreed Timing, but right now we just don't know that answer. Like I said in previous post, I know somebody brought up the following yesterday, and based on what we see in the report, it's a logical conclusion.
The only Series B that are showing as converted in Q2 are from Harry. The report shows a negative (-2M) series B with the reason as "conversion," and then a positive 20M commons with reason as "conversion of B." This would suggest that they convert at a 10:1 ratio. I know that if this is true and Charles & Co decided to convert all of their Series B, they'd have to increase the AS by more than 4B. However, they may only plan on converting a certain qty, then holding the rest to maintain the voting rights (even though they have super-majority voting rights with the Series A they hold). Or even more likely, it could just be Harry who is converting his Series B. He holds roughly 48%of all of the series B out there (188,450,000), and since he/they sold all of the commons that the Zhabilov Trust held (something like 200M+), maybe he's now converting half of his B for commons, prior to the dividend?
Anyway, just a thought....
Thx 29, but I think you misunderstood what I was asking.
I never suggested that Charrles & Co were selling anything, just potentially converting their Series B, because while the Series B carry more voting rights than commons, they do not get dividends. If the majority of ENZC value is moving to SAGA, I'd think that they'd want the dividends for a larger % ownership in SAGA post deal, not to mention that they hold "Super-Majority Voting Rights" with the Series A that they hold.
Anyway, my question is "when" are they required to notify shareholders. For example, I know somebody else brought this up yesterday, and it's a logical conclusion, but lets say that Series B convert at a 10:1 rate (10 commons for every 1 series B). "IF" they (Charles & Co.) are converting some of their Series B, it would 100% increase the OS of commons. When would they be required to disclose that increase to shareholders?
You also asked "what was my worry?" I'd say that my concern pertaining to all of this (possible B conversions) is that come November 20th (Q3 due on 11/15 + typical Charles extension = 11/20) OTCM is going to be updated and our OS is going to change from where it is now, to almost maxed out at 3.9ish Billion.
There were only around 220M shares that moved from restricted to unrestricted last quarter, yet we've traded roughly 1B+ since the end of May/beginning of June. The large majority of those 1B+ have come from OTCN & INTL, both non-Joe-Retail MM's. So where are those shares coming from? I'm sure some of them were the newly unrestricted shares, but what about the rest?
The new required cooling-off period covers the later of: 90 days before trading under a 10b5-1 plan can be activated, or two business days after disclosure in a periodic report of the issuer’s financial results for the quarter in which the plan was adopted.
The Bottom Line
Rule 10b5-1 allows insiders to sell company stock by setting up a predetermined plan that specifies in advance the share price, amount, and transaction date. The insider selling the stock and the broker carrying out the transaction must certify that they are not aware of any material nonpublic information (MNPI).
Thanks BT, appreciate the post, but I’m aware of how restricted to unrestricted work (both are already part of OS). However, when converting series B to commons, it would increase the OS of commons.
My question was related to whether or not Charles is required to update the OS on OTCM, since we’re not SEC reporting.
(I know that OTCM says it was updated recently too. I’m Typing on phone right now, and too much to type more details, but will later when I get back to computer)
Yes, I know all of that, but just find it very strange that conversions are taking place without the OS increasing?
I’d also like know how all of these conversions are taking place, yet we’re not seeing the OS increase on OTCM? Goes back to the question that I keep asking.
Since we’re still not SEC Reporting, are they required to update the OS on OTCM, or can they wait until finished, then update all at once?
Hard to tell because we don’t know if Charles, Chandra, Joseph, and Harry are converting their series B. These fins only include thru June, and OTCN didn’t begin until very end of May/beg of June. Any conversions that took place in July- Current arent showing on these fins, so we don’t know the true amount/qty left.
We’ll, the sky-direct conversions would explain why the pps was pushed and held down. They were one of those who got the ridiculously discounted conversion rate (50% of lowest closing bid over trailing period, or something like that). In other words, they have a major incentive to push/hold the pps down if/when they are converting….
Let’s see what happens in about 22-23 min at 2:30PM EST…. RSI has plenty of padding now and OTCN back in control, so I’m not expecting much of a change, but hope you’re right…
Yup. They’ve been doing it for 2.5-3 years. It’s why I started calling it the “Groundhog Day Pattern.” If you pull up the chart starting with Jan 2022 thru current, you can see it as clear as day. A few days of teaser spike followed by few days of cliff-drop takedown, which brings the rsi just above 30, followed by 3+ months of nonstop beat down, yet the rsi magically remains above 30 during those 3+ months... Wash+Rinse+Repeat…
Looks like we also have our answer to this. RSI has magically jumped 24 points over the past 2 days (26.x to 40.x), providing OTCN plenty of padding to continue their reign....
I'm not sure how the series B work, but I know there were other details in the fins a while back about toxic lenders converting at a discounted rate, something like 50% of lowest closing bid over the previous trailing 5 days (not exactly this, but something along these lines). Also, if somebody else (SAGA Execs) are trying to buy up as many ENZC shares as possible prior to dividend so they can increase their SAGA ownership post-dividend, they'd want the pps as low as possible; and as long as they don't go over something like 150M shares per person, they won't be required to file anything (staying under 5% ownership).
Then we also should factor in that somehow Gries & Assc were engaged in Jan 2023 to complete 2022 audit, but that's not finished yet? I seriously doubt they haven't finished. I believe it's much more likely that they have, but it's being held back.
I don't claim to know anymore than the next person, so just throwing darts at a wall tying to figure it out...
Remember that Series B do NOT get dividends, and between Charles, Chandra, Harry, & Joseph, they hold and/or held almost 400M of the 454M (452M as of June 30th) or roughly 87% of all Series B. If they convert those into commons and the SAGA deal goes through, they'll get dividends on the commons they just converted to. They'll lose some voting rights, but if everything of value is moving to SAGA, that won't really matter...
Honestly I don’t know, because I’m not sure of conversion rate for series B. However, between the 4 of them, they own roughly 87% of the 452M Series B…
In regards to the audit, the fins said that Gries and Assc were engaged in Jan 2023 to complete the 2022 audit, and here we are 8 months later and still nothing? I have no doubts that they’ve already finished, but likely being held back by Charles & Co.
That would be in tried and true stinky-pinky-style. Hope that’s not what’s going to happen, but I can’t see anywhere else all these shares would be coming from.
That’s the question I’ve been asking. Since we’re not SEC Reporting, are they required to update the OS?
I’d bet almost anything that OTCN is converting Charles, Harry,Joseph, and Chandra’s Series B. Series B don’t get dividends, which is probably why their converting. However, what I want to know is if I’m right and OTCN is converting their series B, why hasn’t the OS on OTCM increased?
Just under 10%. Usually right at 9%
Here's another question. Gries & Assc were engaged in Jan 2023 to perform the 2022 audit, which is still underway? 8 months later for 1 year that doesn't involve all of the nonsense that was in years up through 2020/2021? 8 months?
PCAOB AUDITORS
On January 11, 2021, the Company engaged Malone Bailey to perform the Audit for the years ended December 31, 2019
and 2020. The Company completed the client approval process in early February. No unanswered accounting issues
arose. It was determined in June of 2021 that the Bioclonetics transaction, which closed in November of 2020, should be
accounted for as a reverse merger rather than a business combination and will be reported as such in the audited
financials for ENZC. The requested change in accounting method required the books and records of Bioclonetics to be
audited for the years ended December 31, 2019 and 2020 in accordance with GAAP standards by a PCAOB auditor.
After the hiring of independent Accounting Consultants, it was determined that the Companies did do a business
combination not a reverse merger, and as of the time of this filing, the Company has provided all the records and
agreements, accounting memos and backup documentation requested by the consultant and the auditor. The Changes in
Accounting Method will result in amendments to the quarters ending March 31. 2021, June 30, 2021, and September 30,
2021 immediately upon completion of the audits. In July of 2022, the Company and Malone Bailey terminated their
relationship. There were no unresolved accounting or financial issues between the parties. Gries and Associates, LLC
was retained on July 18, 2022, and completed the 2020-2021 audit on December 16, 2022. Gries and Associates were
engaged in January 2023 to perform the 2022 Audit, which is currently underway.
At first glance of Q2 vs Q1, it appears that there were quite a few conversions. The push down is making more sense now. I don't know the conversion rates, but willing to bet the lower the pps, the better for whoever is converting. Also makes me believe that a lot more conversions are/have been taking place (OTCN/INTL) in Q3 as well.
The second snippet below shows why they're converting (Series B doesn't receive Dividends), and the first snippet below shows what we've been watching and/or will continue to watch until they're all converted. I'm willing to bet that OS for Series B is substantially lower now, then it what it was at the end of Q2. Also, if I'm right and OTCN has been executing the conversions of Series B into commons, how is our OS showing on OTCM not changing/increasing?
They're really not gonna allow this to breathe at all..... RSI finally oversold and sitting at 23.x but they'll likely play their games and somehow bring it back up, while still driving us down.... And, of course OTCN still in control, but WTF are all of their shares coming from? I know that OTCM still shows the same OS, but I genuinely can't see where this qty of shares is coming from, unless it's part of that 900M that we still have no idea why they were even added.
That said, the question that I still have is: Since we are still not SEC reporting, is ENZC and/or their transfer agent required to update the OS on OTCM, or because we're not bound by SEC Reporting rules, are they allowed to hold back and update all at once when they're finished dumping?
Wow. What a shocker! Another 9% T-Trade (1.3M) less than lowest closing bid. But none of this nonstop beat down has been orchestrated…. Just biz as usual at ENZC!
Holy $h!T. They're actually about to drop that 04 artificial ceiling down to .035. I genuinely cannot believe what is going on here. OTCN just dumping away what has to be an endless pool of shares. Has anyone else ever been involved in a stock that was held to the exact same pattern for this long? 2.5-3 years straight now. Every day is the same. Unbelievable!
At least the RSI finally crossed into oversold at 26.x... And I'm guessing we'll see a T-Trade for around 800K shares at .033.034....
LOL... It would be nice, but I agree.... There's no way to create a short squeeze with ENZC when our crown jewel (C3), all of C-Level Execs & Scientists, etc.. are moving to SAGA. Any big news, especially the big news that most of us have been holding 3+ years for, will very likely be held until they can announce/disclose under SAGA.
I would agree CK.... That is what I'm leaning towards too.
The more I think about OTCN/INTL, the more I believe that SAGA is behind it. When this deal goes through, based on their current share structure + the 45M new added, current SAGA shareholders would only own about 8-10% of SAGA post deal. However, the more ENZC shares they buy now, the larger % ownership of SAGA they'll have post deal. I believe some of the selling was the newly unrestricted shares, but I believe a lot of the remaining is more about pushing the pps down as they drag out the deal, allowing them to buy as much as they can on the cheap. As long as each SAGA exec remains under 150,540,206 ENZC shares (5% of OS) each, they aren't required to file anything.
This has been going on since May non-stop, and there were only about 220M shares that moved to unrestricted, so the only scenarios I can think of are:
1. The OS on OTCM hasn't been updated and OTCN is diluting us with those 900M that were added.
2. The scenario (SAGA execs buying to increase post-deal ownership) I mentioned above. (OTCN/INTL recycling shares for purpose of controlling/pushing pps down as deal is dragged out)
3. Based on what we know is owned by retail on here, discord, twitter, etc..., I think #3 is unlikely, but I'll list it anyway. Some other very large shareholder or shareholders from a long time ago is dumping for some reason. However, we've traded roughly 1B+ since they started, which makes me lean more towards #1 or #2.
Those suggesting naked shorting, I seriously doubt it. I'm convinced what we've been watching with OTCN has more to do with this deal. I would like to think that if we we're being naked-shorted to this degree, our attorney CEO would actually address it. Also why I believe that the VIRT+OTCN combo that happens every time we break .10 is being done at the direction of a "friend" and/or "undisclosed partner."
Anyway, doesn't appear that OTCN is stopping anytime soon, but RSI is almost at oversold, so we'll likely see a tiny teaser spike soon, where the RSI magically jumps 13-20 points on 3M traded and +2%-4% green...
OTCN & INTL are not your typical Joe-Retail MM's. "IF" the OS showing on OTCM is correct and has not changed, then somebody with a ton of shares decided to sell them down here. But that's the problem I'm having with this. If you take all of the shares owned by retail on here, discord, twitter, etc, then add the shares held by Charles, Chandra, Harry, etc...., I don't believe there's 1B left to trade. We've traded around 1B+ since OTCN & INTL started, and they are easily responsible for 60-75% of those shares. So where are they coming from. I can tell you with 100% certainty that it's not Joe-Retail. If it was, the selling would be coming from CDEL, CSTI, NITE, GTSM, or ETRF, but that's not what's happening. 60-75% of the selling is coming from OTCN+INTL.
Tell me about it. Seriously, where are their shares coming from, and how many do they have? If you add up all the shares that we know are held by retail on here+discord+twitter+etc..., then add what Charles, Chandra, Harry, etc... have, how many are actually left vs current OS of 3,010,804,133? Between OTCN+INTL, tthey've gotta be approaching 1B sold since they began their beatdown several months ago, but according to OTCM the OS hasn't changed. So where are they coming from?
Nope. He's literally batting 1000. However, all I really want to know at this point (besides what happened to SEC reporting/Audit) is where are the OTCN/INTL shares coming from, and why are they selling? We're not talking about a few shares here & there, we're literally talking about 600M-1B, and at least according to OTCM, the OS hasn't changed.
Well, I lied.... I'd also like to know what Chandra was talking about 16 months ago when he said that we'd see a "Monumental Shift" in 6-12 months. For almost 3 full years, all we've seen is a daily beatdown day after day, with the occasional teaser spike for RSI reset, so they can get back to the daily beatdown without driving us into oversold.
Thx. I think that the same one as the last time…
What was the excuse given? “Due to a change in reporting requirements” or something along those lines?