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The only reason that I can think of is that maybe the increase happened after June 30th? I can't remember when it happened, but other than an error on OTCM or an error in the filing, that is the only thing I can think of...
Wick - Unfortunately that is calculated using our current OS, but based off of what we've been watching with OTCN + the fact that CC added 900M shares to our AS for a reason, I believe that 1,167.39 will decrease. Hopefully it doesn't, but OTCN is still with us and still in full control, and I'm expecting to see our OS continue to increase as a result. The shares they've been selling are coming from somewhere, and I still believe that it is either preferred conversions or ENZC selling some of those 900M for some reason. I'd love to be wrong, but I don't believe I am.
Thx and I hear ya Dyno. We've been on the same page for a while now, and both of us were "ULTRA-PRO/POSITIVE-ENZC" for a very long time before all of this, but I just don't like the way this is playing out. I'm not kidding when I say that I am hoping/praying that you and I are dead wrong and somehow missing something, but I don't believe we are. We shall see soon enough, but for all of our sake's, I hope that we're missing something/wrong....
Have a great rest of your weekend too!
bytheocean - I'm down on this deal because for the past 2+ years we've been led to believe that ENZC would reap the benefits of Clone 3, AI, and the rest of the tech going to SAGA. Clone 3 (HIV Only) was projected at roughly $9.09B per year, which put ENZC pps over $3, then factor in everything else. That is what we were led to believe was coming to ENZC. In addition, we were led to believe the audit was being done, and was to be immediately followed by uplisting. We were led to believe that they would get the funds to put their tech in trials and bring it to market by partnering with BP's, not selling them the farm. We were led to believe that we would eventually see ENZC uplist to Naz without an RS.
Many of us passed up on life-changing gains (I'm not just talking about the run to .958, but even after that. Many of us could've walked away with 7-8 figures gain at the time Charles did the first "Emerging Growth Conference," but instead held because we believed what he & Chandra were telling us). Now, everything that we were holding for has just been sold to another company. Yes, we'll get a few SAGA shares, and even make a few dollars, but it won't come close to what we were led to believe was coming to ENZC, which ultimately played a role in holding vs selling for 7-8 figure gains.
Lastly, I'm sure many others are in this boat that I'm about to talk about too, but I am speaking personally here. I talked several family members into buying ENZC years ago, some of whom paid between .30-.50 for their shares. They are not sitting on millions of shares, so not only do they have miles and miles to go just to break even, their chances of making the kind of money we were led to believe was coming to ENZC are pretty much gone.
For example, lets say a family member purchased 200K shares at $0.50, a cost of $100K. Right now those ENZC shares are worth a whopping $7,780, leaving them in the hole roughly $92K, and I don't expect the ENZC cliff-drop to stop anytime soon (expecting many more conversions/OTCN selling). The odds of them making any of that back via ENZC shares is pretty much gone, and based on the tiny qty of SAGA shares they'll end up with, I just wish I never would've convinced them that ENZC was worth the risk.
Anyway, as I mentioned to rockie earlier, I'm seriously running on empty from that 19+ hour drive yesterday, so I'll dig into the SAGA news in much more detail tomorrow. I hope/pray that I'm missing something and/or misinterpreting everything. Nothing would make my day more.....
Have a great rest of your weekend!
I want to believe that too rockie, but based on what we know as of now and what we've been watching daily, I just don't see it. To the best of my knowledge (and I would love to be wrong about this), BGEN owns Clone 3 & the AI Platform, and VIRO owns ITV-1. All of those go bye bye with this deal, as they now fall under SAGA. ENZC is left with Robusomed, lawsuits, and nonstop conversions/selling. Unless Robustomed has something of enormous value that none of us know about, I'm just not seeing it. But I'll say it once again, we still have "hope," but it appears to be dwindling away.
Like I've said, I really hope I'm wrong after 3+ years of holding this based on what "we were led to believe would happen with ENZC." (#Audit, #Uplist, Rocket Ships, Yachts, etc..etc...etc...) only to see the tech/value we've been holding for go to another company where we'll only hold at best 1/100th of the qty of the ENZC shares we hold.
Anyway, let's see what happens in the coming days. I'm really not expecting to see much of a change to our trading pattern on Monday, as I believe we still have many more conversions/OTCN dumping to go, but I do think Monday's action should give us a hint of what's to come for ENZC one way or another (good or bad)...
rockie - You've been here long enough to know that I wasn't always so negative with ENZC. For a very long time (until March 2022), I was as positive as the most pro-ENZC investor out there, if not the most positive on this board. That said, when it comes to this deal, you are correct. Unless there is something I'm missing, I will never see this deal as good for us. The tech/products that we've been holding for (Clone 3 Cure, Other mABS, ITV1, and AI Platform) just went to another company before the true value of them was realized (in the market). So now, when that value is realized, rather than it impacting/benefiting the millions of shares that most of us own, it will benefit the new company and the tiny qty of shares that we'll own in it (1/100th to 1/200th of the qty of ENZC shares we hold).
I actually spent several hours in your neck of the woods yesterday (AR) as I drove 19-20 hours straight (MD to Frisco, TX), so I haven't had time to review everything yet. Seeing how I'm still running on empty from that drive, I probably won't dig into it until tomorrow, but I'm hoping there's something I'm missing that changes my mind. However, for the time being, I feel as though we've been screwed in true OTC style (commons always get the shaft)... I was praying that this deal did not happen and ENZC found another route, but that didn't happen....
I hope you’re right Doc, but if that we’re gonna happen, I would’ve expected to see it begin yesterday/Thursday.
I really hope I’m wrong, but I’m expecting the push down, OTCN dumping, PUMA control, etc… to continue. However, unlike many on here, I did NOT want this deal to go through, as I still see it as nothing more than an RS in disguise that screws all of us who held this long based on what we were led to believe would come to ENZC.
I guess we’ll see soon enough…. I’m Praying that you’re right!
LOL…. Looks like we’re heading back to 03’s. They worked the chart perfectly over the past 1-2 weeks to push the rsi up around 45 (without pushing pps up) while we’re straddling 04, so they’ve got plenty of room to drive down before nearing oversold/teaser-padding-spike again….
Unbelievable how long this has been going on….
Gee, I wonder if we’ll see another T trade for roughly 215k shares around .039ish just after the bell today?
rockie I disagree. It is a rs, but in disguise. All of ENZC value (minus robustomed & lawsuits, but they've already said they're spinning off robustomed at some point as well) is being transferred to a new company, leaving ENZC with no assets or operations. We've all been holding ENZC for that specific value which is being transferred to new company. We will get something like 1 share of new company (SAGA) for every 100 shares of ENZC we own, which is the equivalent of a 1:100 RS.
Yes, we will still own our ENZC shares, but the value we were holding for will be gone, and ENZC will be worthless. That is why I've been saying it's a RS in disguise. Now, those with 20, 30, 40, 50M+ shares of ENZC will do just fine. Those will smaller holdings may do ok, but nowhere near what we were all led to believe was coming to ENZC. I already know many disagree with me, but I believe everyone will eventually agree and/or come to the same conclusion when this all plays out. There's a reason why all of this selling & conversions have been taking place, just as there was a reason Charles increased our AS by almost 25% without any filings, info, or clarification as to why. If it was for a good reason and/or a reason that Shareholders would agree with, he would've dropped a fluff PR the second it was done.
Anyway, like I've been saying, it is what it is at this point, and we're left with only "hope."
Not at all and very possible, but right now SAGA is around $10, so where will it be when they add 45M new shares (they’ll add more than 45, because they’ll need shares for future investors, partners, etc….
Will BGEN/VIRO immediately add $450M value to SAGA, because right now they’re not even worth $125M with Robustomed included? There are too many questions to know anything at this point.
Depends on how many SAGA shares you have, and we don’t know the full details of the dividend yet, but we know it won’t be anywhere near the qty of shares we hold in ENZC. Maybe 1/100th? This is why I’ve been saying from the beginning of the SAGA announcement that this is a reverse split in disguise. It allows Charles to separate the value they convinced us to hold for, from ENZC, it’s lawsuits, and 3B+ OS…
Those holding 25, 30, 50M+ will do fine. Smaller commons will get royally screwed.
“Hope” is all we have left for ENZC…
ENZC will NOT reap the rewards. SAGA (if goes thru, which I believe it will), will reap the rewards. Like I just said in prior post, they are doing everything they possibly can to separate BGEN (who holds clone 3 value) & VIRO from ENZC.
The only way ENZC would reap the rewards would be if they PRd something related to cure, ENZC, BP partnership, etc…. before BGEN/VIRO go away; and I just don’t see that happening.
Honestly Timing, your guess is as good as mine. I knew all of the OTCN selling had to come from somewhere, and it’s been too much to have already been part of OS (restricted moving unrestricted, etc…)
My top guesses would be:
1. Conversions (There’s a reason we were artificially driven down and held before all of the OTCN selling began. Why else would OTCN sync with VIRT on every occasion we broke .10, to artificially drive us safely back under, without selling or buying/just through use of synced algos. Then, once we’re safely under .10 [0.05-0.06] with plenty of padding, OTCN starts selling their neverending ask? They didn’t sell when we were above .10+, and instead waited until we were down here? Doesn’t make sense if they are selling for $)
2. Savov sold his 70M+ shares
At the end of the day, Charles in is infinite wisdom added 900M shares to the OS for a reason, which he has yet to disclose why and/or file anything along with it (very strange, even for OTC Alternative Reporting CO’s).
This is just getting ridiculous. We have literally been demolished/controlled/etc… for almost 3 full years now, with no end in site. Nothing new (of substance) coming from Charles, and the delays, extensions, etc… keep flowing. I know many disagree, but it really seems like those of us who held with the belief that Charles/Chandra would actually follow thru on what they’ve led us to believe for the past 2.5+ years are getting screwed.
Nothing left but “hope” for now…. We’ll see what happens, but those 900M were added for a reason, and I believe Charles is going to drop all of them on us. They also seem to be doing everything possible to separate the value we’ve all been holding for (BGEN/VIRO) from ENZC.
Personally I do. At this point it seems the only purpose of holding ENZC is to get SAGA shares. However, as I've stated all along, I still view this entire plan as a disguised revers split. Hopefully we will still make money with the tiny amount of SAGA shares we'll get, but it will not be the "#yacht $$" we were all led to believe was coming to ENZC for 3 years. Obviously those with large holdings (15M, 20M, 30M+) will do ok, but those those with much smaller holdings (especially those who purchased at .25, .30, .40, +) end up with the shaft. But, that's just my outlook. I personally don't like this SAGA deal and don't want it to happen. I would much rather see ENZC/Charles/Chandra follow though on what were being led to believe for the 2.5+ years leading up to the SAGA announcement.
1. #Audit
2. #Uplist
3. #Yacht
4. ENZC retains all of the value and licenses out and/or partners with other BP's, but definitely NOT give away the farm for $450M, while at the same time reducing the qty of shares we hold by somewhere around 1/100th.
What will be left in ENZC after the deal that would cause people to drive volume/spike? Robustomed + Lawsuits? I guess we can hope for a spike to get the SAGA dividend, but how high that goes will depend on our OS at that time, how many more conversions take place before that, etc... Per the Q2 fins, both Series B & Series E convert 10:1, so depending on how many more are converted, our OS could grow substantially before the dividend date and/or deal.
That said, as of right now we have no choice but to wait for OTCN to finish, then for PUMA & INTL to finish, before we have a chance of seeing any type of real movement. I don't count a green day where we remain in this ridiculous level (04-.10/.15) a big deal and/or a spike. The $450M by itself should have us trading around .14-.15, yet here we sit in the 04's? Why? Because whoever's converting has made sure that the pps is as low as possible, so they get the cheapest price. These end of day T-Trades for 9% of daily volume (just under .10%) at a pps lower than the highest closing bid (in many cases it's lower than the highest 3-4 closing bids) are not coincidence. VIRT+OTCN tag-team every time we broke .10 was not coincidence. This was all planned/coordinated and to this day has yet to be addressed by the company, but like I said in prior post, at this point it is what it is, and we can "hope."
As much I'd rather see it not go through and everything remain under ENZC, so the true value is recognized under EZNC (as we were led to believe it would be for 3+ years), I'm 95% confident the SAGA deal will go through. I say this because they are doing too much to separate "the value" (BGEN/VIRO) from ENZC, which tells me they're expecting it to happen. All PR's now come out under BGEN or VIRO vs ENZC, like they used to, BGEN developing it's own website, and all of this selling and/or conversions are not a coincidence. Those "in the know" (definitely NOT us commons) seem to be preparing for something. Is what it is as this point, and disappointing to say the least.
Yup. Same thing that's been happening and same thing that's gone unaddressed by Charles & Co. Right at 9% of daily volume and lower than highest bid. That spells "Conversions" 100%, and makes sense as to why we were artificially driven down here and held for so long.
They won't call it a RS. My point was that I personally, view this SAGA deal, as an RS for us commons. I know others disagree and that's ok, but I say this because the overwhelming majority of our value is in BGEN (Clone 3 & AI), and the remaining value in VIRO. Both are being sold to SAGA for $450M, leaving ENZC with only Robustomed and the lawsuits. In return, us commons will end up with roughly with a qty of SAGA shares that is roughly 1/100th of the qty of ENZC Shares we hold. Yes, they'll be valued higher, as is the case with a reverse split. The difference here is that we're still keeping our ENZC shares, but with no assets or operations, how long do we think it will take post-deal, for ENZC shares to drop back down to trips? I view it as a RS disguised as something else.
Plenty of us in the same boat nb9. I’ve been here 3+ years, and prior to March 2022 (“March isn’t over yet, HUGE NEWS coming,” and then a little later… #Audit, #Uplist, Yachts, Monumental Shift in 6-12 months, etc…, etc…, etc…) I was more Pro-ENZC then anyone.
That said, I really feel like this SAGA deal sells our value for at least 20X less than annual projected C3 earnings (roughly $9B per year over first 10-11 years per Charles), and in return we end up with somewhere around 1/100th of the current qty of ENZC shares that we own. As I’ve been saying since this was announced, I view this deal as a reverse split disguised as something else, and I personally don’t want to see it go through.
At this point, I’m just holding on to hope, because it’s really hard to believe anything coming from Charles or Chandra… I’m sure others disagree, and that’s ok, but this is how I see it…
Truthfully I don’t really care too much about ITV1. Clone 3 is the crown jewel, which we haven’t heard anything about in 2 years now, and I think the AI platform comes next. ITV1 could be something good, but I don’t think it’s on the same level as C3. I’m confident that c3 is part of an NDA, and unfortunately I don’t expect to see any updates on C3 until BGEN is no longer under ENZC.
Again, I’m hoping that SAGA doesn’t happen, but I think it will. I just think that what I originally said a few months ago was true. They’re dragging it out as long as they can, and buying ENZC shares while we continue to sit in intentionally-undervalued-land. Trying to increase their post deal ownership % of SAGA. But then again, that’s just me….
I couldn’t agree with you more Mutat. This is what I’m hoping for…
Our best option is for the deal to fall apart and the African news is very good.
LOL.... I'm so tired of hearing them use the word "soon." Maybe we'll get an "August isn't over yet, HUGE NEWS coming!" Then they'll drop a PR that says "we're getting ready to kick off our project in Africa "soon." LOL...
I'm laughing, but this has been beyond disappointing. Truthfully, I'd much rather them come out and say we're not going to go through with the SAGA deal anymore. We've obtained funding to move forward under ENZC instead.... That would make my day! I may be in the minority, but I really don't like the SAGA deal. The way I view it is that everything we've been holding for is going to a new company, where we'll end up with somewhere around 1/100th of the shares we've been holding in ENZC. Yes we can still make money, but I just don't see us making the kind of money we were all led to believe we'd make with ENZC.
Lastly, I would really love to know what Chandra was referring to 15-16 months ago when he said there was a "Monumental Shift" coming in 6-12 months. I don't believe he was referring to SAGA, so I'd really like to know what he thought was coming and/or going to happen.
Based on the limited info we currently have, It would be under SAGA. However, my point was that regardless of who, if ENZC actually has a cure, I want to see it go to market and not swept under the rug/suppressed by BP…
I hear ya Dyno and I'm with you most of the way. I've heard enough, seen enough, read enough tweets & #'s, etc.... and would love to see a buyout. However, if C3 really is a "Cure," I don't want a buyout at the expense of Big Pharma suppressing it/sweeping it under the rug....
Yeah, I figured. I just know that it's hard to interpret the tone of what somebody is saying via text, email, msg, etc..., & some people take things personally, so I've just gotten in the habit of saying that when I'm disagreeing with anyone to ensure my tone is not misinterpreted... All good though...
I agree that we need more details, but based on the info that we currently have to date, I personally view it more as a reverse split to get out of OTC and get rid of law suits. I know others don't agree, and thats fine, but I'm only speaking for myself here. I held when I should've sold, because based off of what we were told, what Chandra was tweeting, etc..., I though that ENZC would realize it's full value, while we all still held millions of shares. Based on what they are though to have (HIV Cure, etc...), ENZC reaching a $10-$20B MC was very plausible and would have made many of us generational wealth. I hope we see something similar with SAGA, but I just don't believe we'll see that kind of return. Not saying we won't make money, but I don't think we'll make the $$ we were led to believe we were going to make under ENZC.
But again, we are still missing a lot of details and anything can happen between now - SAGA close.... We shall see....
I hear ya SA, and yes it would look better with 14,000 vs 9,000 (only about $500K less than ENZC at $3.32). I hope I'm wrong and Charles surprises all of us something much better than what we're all (at leas what I am) anticipating.
Depends on their Share Structure. Once they add the 45M for ENZC shareholders, they'll still only have roughly a 49M OS, so $111 pps is only a $5.439B MC. That is very plausible. However, the question is "how many shares will they actually end up raising their OS by, because I seriously doubt it stops at the 45M for ENZC shareholders. They will need more for future partners/investors, but the question is how many more?
Anyway, based on the 49M OS, $111 pps and/or a $5.439B MC is very easily doable/possible.
I used 3B in calculation because if they were to drop BIG news under ENZC RIGHT now, the OS is only 3.01B. Also, I was basically just trying to show what we were all led to believe was coming to ENZC for the past 2-3 years (pre-SAGA), and a 5B OS was never part of that.
Your guess is as good as mine. We need the details.
1. Will the SAGA div shares be restricted? If so, it would likely be for at least 1 year.
2. When will they disclose big news to move the price? Right now SAGA’s around 10-$11, but how does it hold that pps when 45M shares are added?
Personally, I believe they are sitting on BIG BGEN news, and will PR once SAGA is 100% complete. I seriously doubt we see any PRs with BIG news for ENZC, but that’s just me.
Only time will tell….
ENZC shareholders will be part owner, not ENZC. ENZC will be left "with no assets and no operations." The only thing left in ENZC will Robustomed (until that's spun out too), the lawsuits, and 3-3.9B OS. ENZC will NOT own SAGA. Shareholders will have a % percentage ownership, but not ENZC. Once dividend is paid out, ENZC the company will own 0% of BGEN, VIRO, & SAGA.
Sure.... I'll be happy with $1-$3M, but that's nowhere near what I/we were led to believe was coming and/or we'd make with ENZC (depends on qty of shares each of us holds). My point was just showing the difference between the true value of their tech being realized under ENZC, as we were originally led to believe it would be, vs being realized under SAGA where we'll hold 1/100 of the ENZC shares we currently hold.
Yes, I believe we're waiting for SAGA, but I don't believe we'll make the kind of $$ we were led to believe we would make under ENZC. Not saying that we still can't make money with SAGA, but if BGEN's value was finally realized under ENZC, hitting a $10B MC would be likely, which would put ENZC shares at $3.32. $3.32 with the qty of shares most longs hold here would be amazing. However, hitting a $10B MC under SAGA with 1/100 of the shares, we'd be lucky to make half of what we would have under ENZC.
For example, lets say somebody owns 1M ENZC shares and the MC goes to $10B, giving ENZC a $3.32 pps. That person now owns $3.32M ($10B ÷ 3,010,803,144 OS = $3.32 PPS | $3.32 PPS X 1M ENZC Shares = $3.32M)
Now, once SAGA is complete, those 1M ENZC shares become 9,000 SAGA shares. SAGA MC goes to $10B and those 9K SAGA shares are now worth $1.836M ($10B ÷ 49,000,000 OS = $204.08 PPS | $204.08 PPS X 9,0000 SAGA Shares = $1.836M)
See the difference? Now factor in those who 5M, 10M etc... shares or eve worse, the smaller commons who may only hold a few 100K ENZC shares.
I unfortunately don't believe we'll see ENZC POP again. The way I see it is that the majority of our value is held by BGEN, which will no longer be part of ENZC. Also, if we were to see any kind of spike, I don't believe it would go beyond .14-.15, as that is what Charles is selling it for ($450M MC), but would love to be wrong.
No disrespect DOGONE, but I don't consider these "up" days. I know we've technically been green, but we are still sitting in a ridiculously & intentionally undervalued range. If we ever get back above .10-.20, which I think is unlikely given that 99% of value is moving to SAGA, I'll get a little excited and call those "up days." I'm sure many disagree, but that's just the way I see it. We're almost 9 months into 2023, still not audited, still not SEC Reporting, no "monumental shift," all PR's and updates coming out under BGEN & VIRO, and we're sitting in the .04's with OTCN/PUMA in full control & no retail volume/interest to change that.
That said, I'll continue doing what Charles & Co. have taught us to do best.... Hurry up and wait some more.....
Dusty - I know many on here likely disagree with me, but I'm convinced that SAGA is intentionally dragging out the deal. The more ENZC shares they can purchase down here in crazy-undervalued-land, the larger % ownership of SAGA they'll have post-deal. Right now there are only roughly 4.X million in SAGA OS, so once the 45M shares are added, those who currently own the 4.X M shares will only own roughly 8.5%, but if they've been loading the past 6+ months, that % could increase exponentially depending on how many they've purchased. As long as they each (each SAGA exec) remain under 150,540,206 ENZC shares, they are not required to file anything with SEC (5% ownership, etc...)
Again, just a theory, but I am really leaning towards this one.
I agree SA, but I do blame the MM's (VIRT + OTCN/X) for sitting in this ridiculous range. We did not drop down here organically. The second we brok above 0.10, VIRT+OTCN magically appeared with their algos completely in sync, and drove us safely back under 0.10 without actually buying or selling any shares. They did this in Jan 2022 and May 2023. Both times were identical and both times the second we were safely under .10 with plenty of padding, VIRT disappeared (Both disappeared after the Jan 2022 push down, but OTCN remained after the May 2023 push down and has been going strong since. The odd part is that they didn't begin actually selling until we were safely under 0.10. Why? When we were over 0.10, they just used their synced up algo, along with VIRT to drive us back down. Then once down with plenty of padding between pps & 0.10, they began selling.... Very strange...)
I would guess algo, but that's just me. I still would love to know where the shares are coming from. I still suspect that Harry is converting a significant amount of his Series B, but that's just a guess. I'm just not sure where else the share could be coming from. It doesn't really add up.
Between this board, Twitter (X), & Discord, retail holds a substantial amount of the OS. Then factor in the commons held by Charles & Co, and there really shouldn't be many left based on the OS showing on OTCM (3,010,804,133). So where are they coming from? Over 1B+ traded since they began their never-ending selling.
On a separate note, does anyone know if SAGA announced their 9th extension yet? I haven't seen anything, but haven't been much attention lately either...
Yeah, that's the same message I got Mista. I actually called and spoke with somebody just to make sure there was nothing I needed to do, and she said that we're good and with exception to our account numbers, t's all back-end changes....