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Lemmi
It will be alright
42 ... ok maybe 35
We have waited this long we can wait some months more
Alm
Lem - your $42 has always been in my mind ....but I gratefully accept your suggestion of $35 as the next best thing - hells teeth if anyone deserves it you do
We will know soon enough.... waited this long ... we can all wait sone more
Keep well and know we are grateful for all you do for your fellow man
Alm
Send to singer
Alm
Great work ... again !!
Send to Singer
Alm
Send to Singer
Alm
Excellent analysis
Send to Singer
Alm
Send to Singer
Alm
Send to Singer
Alm
HK
Send to Singer
Alm
HK
Incredible ...your knowledge and skill is simply astounding -coupled with immense humility - my admiration flows
Alm
Lem... you are a shining example to us all of compassion and courage -may all the gods in the heavens keep you and your colleagues safe ..
Alm
Send to Singer
Alm
Gg
Please send these on to Singer
Alm
Absolutely spot on
HK
The appeal as to argument as to Du findings as to Kur
Simplicity is everything in the presentation of an argument - oral argument is now all that Singer can fire up before the FC
The Position as to Kur appears very complex (as reading all that is set out in your post suggests) - if it is to be the subject of OA before FC it needs to be reduced to its clearest and simplest form - Singer has to balance time and chose his lines of attack to produce the most effective results
Can you do this in bullet point format - so that it can expressed in OA in a minute / or two - he has only 15!!!
-simply /clearly stated /very hard hitting ? - the less the number of bullet points the better
I believe you can do this ... post it and send it to Singer
Alm
HK
The appeal as to argument as to Du findings as to Kur
Simplicity is everything in the presentation of an argument - oral argument is now all that Singer can fire up before the FC
The Position as to Kur appears very complex (as reading all that is set out in your post suggests) - if it is to be the subject of OA before FC it needs to be reduced to its clearest and simplest form - Singer has to balance time and chose his lines of attack to produce the most effective results
Can you do this in bullet point format - so that it can expressed in OA in a minute / or two - he has only 15!!!
-simply /clearly stated /very hard hitting ? - the less the number of bullet points the better
I believe you can do this ... post it and send it to Singer
Alm
HDG-the clamour for new CEO/sell now/partnershiip Europe/and heavens know what else -on this board is as you so clearly demonstrate absurd
The appeal outcome if successful restores Amarin - if it fails then that is the time to adopt different measures to salvage whatever is possible
Taking such Actions now on the demands of a disaffected bunch of shareholders from this board would be corporate madness
Patience is what is required - sept 2nd will soon be here and an outcome a few months later
There are times when inaction as to major corporate decisions is required - this is the position now
Alm
Brilliant as ever
Send to Singer / Amarin
Alm
Marjac
Thanks reply
I agree the FC will not care about the substance of the complaint per se - what concerns me is procedure - will the FC delay appeal because they are not certain they can remand back to Du because she may be prevented from taking the case ... might they say we best wait the resolution of this complaint to see if it could be remanded back to her or not
I am not familiar with the procedures here .. but it worries one
Ok if complaint can be resolved like now !! But otherwise ?
Alm
Marjac-you seize the opportunity and I compliment you on the composition of your letter. However it occurs to me that you are also must ask for an expeditious resolution of this complaint -
I express this concern -we want an expedited appeal- the FC has as one of its options a remand - such would in usual circumstances be to the DC judge who tried the case.
What we don’t want is the FC delaying the appeal hearing because of a complaint procedure which if unresolved prior to the appeal would fetter the FC ability to exercise one of its options - you ask that an Order be made to recuse ... when this be considered?????
The FC will quite possibly want this complaint resolved prior to its appeal hearing
Delay of the Appeal will be disastrous...
Complaints like this may normally be resolved I suspect on a very slow time frame
It’s your complaint and thus for you to action any further aspect of it - may be you should liaise with Singer as to his view on the matter I raise
Delay in the resolution of the complaint may result in delay of the appeal
Alm
Biobill - I really hope what you suggest is the case - but the share price would be way higher if the market thought that there were significant hurdles beyond the Du win go generics to overcome - hell we went from 13 to 4 in a flash -why is that you espouse this but nobody else does or indeed recognise it ? Are Amarin suggesting it’s ?
Alm
Jasb. Exactly the generics game. And why settling is generally not what they are interested in ... they want to steal drugs to add to their already stolen portfolio ... they had a big win here
But our hope and ambition is that we get the patents back through the appeal
Win for Amarin and all will flow from there
Alm
Marjac - delighted to exchange views with you
Alm
Did you expect Amarin or their lawyers to say publicly they would or even might lose? To say publicly they would win is surely simply what one expect any company would say in patent litigation.... is it not ??
How can one consider such expression as over confidence ?
Alm
JL
That’s the story
Lose 4/5 dollar share price climbing back to 7 and maybe more
Win 20 plus share price
My bet is the same as yours
Lots to gain - nothing to lose
All that needs be said really aboutAmarin until the appeal outcome
Alm
Settlement terms - so bill- you know what the terms were ??
Were they ....
Generic lawyer to amarin lawyer
“ we are going to win the patent litigation .....but to be fair we offer to pay our own litigation costs and you pay yours.. and as to market entry we require this to be immediate for settlement of this litigation .... now what do you say counsellor? “”
What would you have said in response to those settlement terms??? ... would you have gambled a 100 billion market by continuing the litigation or settled up ?
Alm
Marjac
A is as possible as B as is every other time frame you might care to suggest -as being reflective of the parties position
Pure speculation
Du would know nothing of A B or any position in between - such had no bearing on the trial save that it went ahead
Those who constantly take the position of being critical of management for not settling do so without a clue as to the facts - they engage in pure speculation
I am not against speculation per se ...so long as those who engage in it recognise that this is what they engage in
I consider (speculate) that the appeal has a very high chance of succeeding - I consider there is virtually no prospect now of settlement
I hold my shares on the basis of my speculation
I may speculate and be wrong - but I hope I am right
I speculate that if Amarin win the share price will significantly increase I speculate that 25 is again attainable
I am pretty certain on the facts that we will know an outcome to this in 4 / 5 months time
We will soon know
Alm
Marjac - settlement
I rather suspect what you set out as to the settlement conference procedure can not be the case - the court can not force parties to settle patent litigation-the court - Du was required to judge on the evidence - (we are rather upset with the outcome!) but not on a perception - to which- As I understand it - she would not be in any way privy - as to what the posture of parties might be in a settlement conference
H and R could for example have proposed that the settlement be that they would be permitted to enter the market from the very day of the settlement itself - tell me Marjac that you know they did not demand this ...
Should Amarin have agreed to this ? - what I suggest - is simply speculation
Their position could have been simply complete commercial suicide for Amarin
The generics could take whatever position they might like
Remember the generics fought a hard battle in the trial- they did not roll over - they were quite prepared to battle through -long shot it may to some have appeared to be -but to them a battle worth winning and at little financial cost
So they could if they do chose have taken such a hard ass position that Amarin had absolutely no choice but to trial the case
You simply do not know what the parties positions were
Neither do I ...
There is good reason for the expression - it is idle to speculate
Alm
Rose - you are correct in what I suggest .. whilst V may not fly off the shelves presently the generics are in their sales game for the long run - they don’t have to worry about patient expiry they will have a market for decades - the medical profession will over time prescribe as a SOC naturally - as they do with statins etc
Amarin and it’s shareholders / or any big pharma buying out are in a patent expiry hurry to build up a market and thus advertising is a justifiable/ risk reward expense
People need put generic hats on here - they did win the lottery -one that if appeal is unsuccessful will payout for decades to come
We need win the appeal - do so Amarin can build USA market develop Europe and ROW. And /or get bought out by a big pharma wanting to do the same and seeing the drug as a profitable BO investment
Covid would have blunted Amarin sales build up anyway so the loss of time / sales build up / building up BO potential is something that would have inevitably taken a dent
4 months and we will know which way the share price will blow us
I am a lawyer ... I see singer briefs having positioned the appeal in very good shape
you either back him in the appeal or sell up now - a shareholders choice
The key thing for Amarin is making sure cash pot remains comfortable - the big criticism I have of BoD is for not waiving the renewal of share option reward mechanism during this period ... such should be on back burner until post appeal and several months thereafter to let dust settle and see where thing go
Alm
Tasty - totally agree
Pointless Speculation as to historic settlement possibilities
We go to appeal - generics won’t settle now - even if it is legally possible It is highly questionable whether court would agree
-generics won the lottery at Du court - generics will be happy to spend nothing on promotion - on premise over time the cheaper generic drug will become widespread in use because of its overwhelming patient benefit
We have to sit wait it out and get the one outcome that will restore this company and its share value - people can sell their shares now - we have that choice
Maybe 4 months we will know outcome
The reality is the SP has not got much downward prospect but significant upside prospect on a win of the appeal
From all I have read the prospect of winning is a high and realistic
Alm
But Marjac
Given that settlement was an option exercised -With two generics - T and subsequently A is not the most likely and logical conclusion that the terms required by H and R were simply beyond any level of commercial reasonableness - Or indeed H and R may have had no intention to settle at all (by for example demanding immediate generic access to the market) -thus generics chose to go for a long shot outcome in trial - a few million in legal fees to win the lottery ?
It is pure speculation to assume that settlement was a realistic option for Amarin - we are not privy to any information as to what H and R demanded
Alm
Bouf
A wrong will have been righted - all very well and good and the court can pat itself on its back
But what has been the cost of this debacle ?
The damage has been beyond comprehension ....there should not be a patent law system which operates in this way - that is the fundamental conclusion from this debacle from this DC case
It hugely discourages enterprise and investment it allows generics to gamble a few bucks to win a jackpot it breeds uncertainty for those engaging in the development of life saving drugs
The government and court system should hold its head in shame for allowing this patent litigation roulette to exist
Alm
HK
Many thanks reply
And forever in your debt
Alm
Can the raw data be obtained ? Alm
Send to Singer
Alm
Send to Singer
Alm
Bouf in a criminal case such an experts evidence would most definitely be admitted ....
The issue will be - is it factually incorrect or is it factually correct-?? not any issue of interpretation- we are getting lost here in the suggestion of statistical interpretation
It has nothing to do with such -you can not interpret an incorrect fact as correct -all the interpretation in the world will never make a fact true if it is false -you most certainly can make a mistake to think a fact is correct when it clearly is not - as per Du—
the world is round - many for many centuries considered it was flat - their interpretation of what they observed did not render their mistake correct - they were simply wrong
(We can actually consider that the world is not actually a pure sphere- but round does for the purposes of illustration !
If there are errors of fact - (That is something Du arrived at in her decision making process which is totally factually incorrect ) ( it would be helpful if the whole wide world accepts that Du made errors of fact )-then the point in issue will be won
Singer will assert there was serious error of fact
Alm
Iran not a USA lawyer so the exact operation of the system is not known to me
But basic principles of justice alllow for a consideration of error as to fact and law in any appeal system
It is clear post trial that error of fact in theDu trial were arrived at by her
Not just a choice preferring one witnesses testimony over another’s
As I understand theFC procedure the three judges can and indeed must consider whether there has been serious error of fact
Singer has already and will further assert such
Alm
Reverse 100
It’s the only outcome
Alm
Bouf ... but would it be expected to be in the ken of a judge - judge Du ?
That’s the point ... she is the person who is required to make a correct interpretation of the evidence - not to make mistakes of her own volition which then allow her to reach a flawed judgement relying on her own mistakes
Let us say the evidence in a case showed that a bank manager alleged to have stolen money in fact did not .. the evidence from his 3 bank account show he only had 3000 dollars in them - account 1 1000 account 2 500 account 3 1500
Du then does the maths - a b c accounts she adds up to 3,000,000 simple error of maths - and directs the jury (in Amarins case she is the judge and jury)- on basis of clear evidence of 3,000,000 in accused accounts and they convict -
Error - Oh let’s just ignore it in the appeal ???
Can’t be so
I use an extreme example to emphasise the point
If there is a clear error of interpretation of fact the FC must be allowed to visit it
Alm