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I hear tick tock tick tock.....Go WDRP!!!!
No problem...in a way it was you who started this conversation of the product competitiveness. It is good to discuss it, and inform & involve several new faces here...
Soon we will know the spec...Go WDRP!!!!
I like your take on this. Awesome write up. Go WDRP!!!
After all the explanation we have been doing, you still ask this same question. You are funny.
And they have never mentioned that in their so called energy efficiency calc, do they? How could they claim 99% or 100% efficiency? Luckily Wanderport MHU will likely solve that. Go WDRP!!
I agree with that conclusion. Personally I do not think that is where energy saving is.
Let me add that a thinner water mass is the more efficient microwave energy could get absorbed. IMO, that is how they solve the efficiency problem together with excess heat reuse.
Another point is it takes so much energy (space) to heat certain mass of water. If one can find a way to transfer that energy quicker (like microwave heating), the required detention time within the heating chamber would be shorter. Between that and a smaller heat exchanger, they end up shrinking the size of microwave water heater unit.
There...that is how MHU could be a game changer in the water heater industry....It is an enhanced tankless water heater. Go WDRP!!!!
I thought that was our know how secret of this unit...you give it out already huh? LOL..
That is the reason I hold tons of WDRP shares, they solve a long standing water heater issue...Go WDRP!!!
I agree with your theory to certain extents...Now let's look at this backward then. You need certain heat energy to bring water from one temp to another temp. That is empirical per the heat specific coefficient 4.2 joule/gram of water per degree C, right? That is entirely accurate give or take for how much heat you need to boil the water. I do not think Wanderport contributes anything on that aspect.
Then our task is to transfer that whatever joules needed from the heat exchanger to the mass of flowing water. Also, another task is to convert electricity to heat at the heat exchanger. You see that it take a bit of transfer and conversion between electricity to actually raise water temperature. It is probably true that 99% watt gets convert into heat, but does all that heat goes to the flowing water....? How could we keep up with that heat transfer? This is a dynamic environment, not a static one like boiling water on a stove, so the heat transfer and heat exchanger play a big role on how to possibly boil flowing water.
And that is where the improvement is.
Please refer to my post 24901. Go WDRP!!!
As far as the specification, please do not refer to the number posted. The IR suggested that those numbers were purposely not precise due to the patent pending. The actual numbers would be supposedly announced end of the month give or take. Go WDRP!!!
Good point isn't it? I got fooled by that sticker number for a long time. The fact is when the electric tankless water heater claims 95-99% that was based on half truth..
Electricity---(1)-->Heat at coil heating exchanger---(2)---flowing water
The efficiency claimed by the manufacturer mean converting electricity to heat energy at heat exchanger coil. The flaw of resistance water heater is how to effectively transfer that heat to the mass of flowing water heater. That is the part that they do not mention. Please take a look at the following post and the last three paragraph of the attached PR, your similar question got addressed there. PM me, if you need further explanation. Go WDRP!!!!
Post 24647
Wanderport Continues to Produce Successful Results PR
Personally, I believe both Robert and Design 1 have already reached that Aahhh moment... LOL...
When someone claims energy efficient, it is just pretty much relative to what available in the market. It depends on what aspect of previous design flaws they improve. An on demand tankless water heater has proved itself as an energy saving alternative by just heating the water when you need it, no need to store the water in the tank and wasting energy. Now a Microwave tankless water heater proposes that they could save energy even further. They point out the flaw in the resistance heating water heater technology in general.
What so exciting is if Wanderport could successfully produce such a product, this breakthrough would apply to so many other resistance heating apparatus. It would be massive opportunities ahead of us.
You are right, it would be tough to receive several hundred millions LOI without a working prototype. A great sale person would not be that great.
They would have certain pilot unit to test their concept via lab apparatus and got satisfactory results in order to move forwards with all these sales and patent filing. However, because of those patent filing, they are not at the liberty to say anything so specific. Some people around here understand those weakness pretty well and use this fact to flip the stock. Until they complete a prototype and move forwards to a next level of field testing unit. You would see the flippers take advantage of the situation. Fortunately, it seems like they are supposed to get over that hill in a month. You know we are dealing with a bit of perfectionist inventor.
The fact that we long believe this is not a scam, because we have spent tons of hours DD the stock (including making face to face visits). For example, this stock has zero dilution. No scam business would do such a thing. In fact, they returned 130 millions share early last year. The float is considerably low for a pinkie. Since they did not show a sign to intentionally delay the process and suck money from the stock at all, we longs believe it would be in Wanderport's best interest too to get the product out to the market.
If you may, please take a little bit of time reading our ibox that the mods have diligently pulled information from several sources together over the years.
This is killing me when I think they are ahead of what they said they are.... Go WDRP!!!!
Thanks Brian...
You know how he rolls...^^
Good deal...Welcome to the board...^^
The official claim of efficiency (work in progress, of course) is as follows.
Previous analysis showed approximately 25% energy savings over other competitive electric "on demand" units because it functions in a dynamic environment versus static environment. That is, standard electric immersion elements claim to be 100% efficient through thermal transfer. True, in the sense that all the energy goes into the heated water in motion through resistive elements in a fully immersed level within a heat exchanger. However, it can not be 100% efficient because there would likely be a loss of energy efficiency by transferring thermal energy into water and having to maintain the heat within the exchanger. Another example of energy loss occurs from thermostat circuitry required to control elements, resulting in less than 100% efficiency.
Energy saving, compact size, some speculation, etc....a lot to love.
What about you? Why do you own so many of this share? Just to flip it or long term investment?
Thanks Belize, it is a very prudent concept. Now it is time for me to load up some more...Go WDRP!!!!
We wish you good health....Please come back when you can..
Take care
Thanks to Nitro...Go WDRP...
Thank you for sharing, your post explains it really well. Let me add to what you have posted.
Sounds like you talk about heat transfer rate. A resistance heating approach as in a traditional tankless electrical water heater got a limitation of the heating surface area and the heating transfer coefficient.
Electricity--(1)--> Heat at heat exchanger--(2)--> flowing water
Although it could convert electricity into heat at 99%(Step 1), it is still limited by how quickly it could transfer heat energy into the mass of water (Step 2). In order to keep up with higher flow rate, it would have to oversize the heat exchanger and end up consuming more electricity.
Microwave water heater, on the other hand, use two types of heat exchanger per se--1) the water itself 2) proprietary ceramic heat exchanger. Majority of the heat energy has no limiting factor of heating surface like the traditional tankless water heater, because once water absorbs microwave energy its whole water mass becomes heating surface. For the same reason, its size tends to be smaller, since it does not require as much heating surface.
So the reason that Wanderport saves energy is not that they could match the efficiency, but it does not have to compensate the heat transfer coefficient as the existing technology must do, IMHO.
I see the same thing...,but mass production is at sight now...the saying that they have no prototype should no longer apply...Go WDRP....
Totally agree, at the same time you would not do that until you complete design, testing, and about to be ready to roll the drum and tell the world about the product...
Plus, they decide to release one model out first..This is a change of plan from before that they want to put out both models at the same time, which takes longer. This way will be sooner than expected per the comprehensive PR earlier this year, IMO....
I say Yay....Production run....Go WDRP....
People starts to get it that, it sounds like they are heading for mass production...sooner than expected...at least for one of its models...Go WDRP...
Good day....and April is an exciting...Go WDRP....
I agree with you. They procure parts for mass production of the point of use MHU.
I read the same thing. The design and preliminary test are over, and one of the models--point of use MHU-- would be complete in April 2011. Go WDRP....
It is a beautiful day in Bay area. Soon there will be PR. Go WDRP...
Either it is today or tomorrow....if the news is what we are expecting, it will be huge....Go WDRP....
Not sure about ROI, last time they announce the price tag was $450 per unit, which matches or is lower than many available in the market. So, this is not like Prius that you have to pay premium to use a cool stuff. Personally, I think they could price higher.
The way I see this technology is not from ROI standpoint. I see that it will simply replace the existing electric tankless water heater or those water boiler in numerous applications in all new units. It becomes a new standard technology or at least has a league of its own. That is huge, IMO. Go WDRP....
When you say that your power consumption would be higher, that rings the bell. Per your assumption that it has 100% efficiency, at worst whatever you do, it should be equal or less than what available in the market. I would say your calc is on the right track, but your assumption may need to be revisited (temp change, flow rate, duration, etc). Having said that, the peak factor fee is a good point.
Another point to consider about this product is the potential applications are tremendous--Boiling water quicker. Imagine what else they could license their technology to do. Go WDRP...
Fair enough, thank you for sharing. Go WDRP.
Are you sure that is that is every word Robert said? It does not sound right to me. Sacrificial Anode is for corrosion protection, which is the opposite phenomena of scaling. In fact, when you have scaling, the sacrificial anode is no use.
Scaling causes are from nucleation surface and saturation of mineral. A slick non metal surface like WDRP would help, but for hard water you still experience scaling more or less.
I heard from IR that news is very likely next week. I hope the flippers would hold off for a period.
I slapped it back. Go WDRP.