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I doubt there is very little chance of that but what I was thinking is that F5 is a sponsor - probly supplying the kit and other support and in turn gains from development and fine tuning of the race car - eg, suspension, brakes, aerodynamics, etc.
The race car development should be key to further performance gains getting the vehicle closer and closer to world class supercar performance in every aspect. This of course is JMHO but I think Revenge might be the real recepient of real improvements over an already excellent vehicle.
What seems to be up in the air is exclusivity of the parts that Revenge will be using. Will they be exclusive to Revenge or can anyone upgrade their existing GTM kit to mirror our vehicle. There has to be a very real distinction that separates us from the kit car concept and thinking.
The Revenge GTM-R must be accepted as a FACTORY or OEM produced vehicle, same as if you went to a chevy dealership to buy one.
I have no doubt that this will be an issue that Peter must overcome immediately at the upcoming show and auto with journalists familiar with Factory Five from SEMA shows and more recently the PRI event. I am hoping that F5 CEO to accompany Peter there and do a few words announcing the partnership, because it MUST be a done deal.
It was pr'd that ONLY when F5 signed off on the production prototype would things go forward. Well guess what? Seems thats just what were doing.
Not to whine but down about 90% in investment and the RS wont do me no good at all - same as most here. The timing will most likely cut us out from any chance of a breakeven. Right now its kind of hard for me to cheer Peter as it seems I wont reap any benefits of the companies potential success - even though I paid for my ticket to ride.
GLTA - P.
Debut time? No one really knows for sure. They promised us a marketing campaign mid November and the GTM sometime in December.
So far no marketing campaign (to speak of)and we have learned our GTM-R is showing up at the north american auto show in detroit mid January.
There is an advance press viewing Jan 12 with public viewing available three days later.
Im hoping someone is gonna make a youtube video of our long awaited GTM-R. Not coincidentally I think, the name GTM-R is a copyrighted name for a Factory Five sponsored race car built by Prototype Development, just recently placing second in Thunderhill 25 hour endurance race.
So in the future when ya goog GTM-R both prototype development co GTM -R and Revenge Designs GTM-R will come up...
so if anyone wonders where all the 100 improvements came from, I'd have to say many were from improvements made to the racing GTM-R sponsored by factory five. One would suppose that our GTM-R is simply a streetable race car.
I would agree that the buying is done, Indeed no one is biting no matter how tempting the bait...
maronti - unless Peter assigns value ($$$$) to the company expressed in dollars, it doesnt matter much what Peter will PR or how he does the split from here on out.
Peters best bet for success is to retain the shareholder base and add value.
If we are happy campers perhaps it wont be so hard to attract new money. Either way you look at it either a forward or reverse split is likely and we will have to take a hit (again). That the company is in need of cash to move forward is hard to argue and it has to come from somewhere.
JMHO - P.
Thats exactly my point - we DONT know that we can trust him NOT to wipe out our investments. The ball is in his court.
He may not know it yet, but in todays pink market he needs to keep every shareholder he has. He needs us to buy more.
Right now he has fearful investers - he needs GREEDY ones that will empty the couch for loose change to get more shares. Fear and greed are the true motivators here for buying and selling.
Beneficial RS? I have been thinking if there is such a thing but what if everything was simply temporarily rolled back 10 for one? AS 250M OS 200M
post RS pss would consolidate to .001 giving company same market cap of 200,000
Our building and assets should be at least a half mil, and Peter has indicated some nice forward sales (enough to more than cover cost of tooling and manufacturing).
If Peter can get the market to assign a value of at least one or two million to the company in immediate sales (over next few months) and assets then we stand to make some real gains in pps and potentially in a very short time.
MORE IMPORTANTLY - Peter would establish himself as a CEO against raping shareholders and appear to be a FAIRLY safe investment as far as pinks go - trusting him to act in the BEST interests of shareholders.
I would rather throw money at a CEO you can trust with only a mediocre product, rather than a known scammer with a really HOT product.
Its a brutal market right now and no guarantees of success. bdrr with an OS of under 200M recently filed for AS increase to 600M with the intent of aquisition(s). Set to report financials in excess of 3M sales anytime the pps is in the toilet and seems to want to stay there until financials actually come out.
One thing is for sure though - if Pete kills off his loyal longs with a brutal RS he will have a tough time selling shares.
Regarding F5.....the F5 update stated that the CEO gave up his salary in order to keep a welder on the production floor. IS IT POSSIBLE Pete paid for the three kits in shares, and those shares were recently liquidated for operating monies?
Hope should never be an investment strategy but here we are, waiting and hoping not for profit, but just to be not wiped out.
I dont know about you but was hoping RVGD would give me a very merry Xmas after such a lonnnnnnnng wait.
Good luck to all, hope we survive this.
P.
If Peter hadnt filed the RS, the pps would be a little higher right now and decent volume. If pps can hit .0003 you can have my shares and I'll take the 50% loss now.
May buy back in after RS and post RS price decline. Not getting any .0001's to flip at .0002 either. One bag is enough for now.
The GTM SHOULD be a big hit right now and make decent news. Small manufacturer introducing new car when big three in trouble.
I am very surprised there was no mention of Factory Five there as automotive journalists will immediately identify the car as a F5 GTM. Undoubtably there will be questions raised about the association/partnership. Having F5 CEO there to give REvenge Designs his blessing and announce any partnership/participation. F5 is the company with a sterling rep.
Anyhow its a step in the right direction I guess and time to assign value to the stock and company. Showtime Peter!
What is funny is that he dared to mention investment in REvenge in the same pr. These potential investors that may buy in between now and the RS will get hosed, and the AS there advertised there is incorrect (or is it). LOL.
P.
One thing you must understand Maronti is that Peter by doing the Neveda page listing the RS, is that he effectively put the stock completely in limbo on the very cusp of potential success essentially ensuring that investors will not be able to profit or even recover losses when the GTM is a big hit.
Any and all large shareholders have overnight been turned into bag holders, at there is not much of a market to sell the hundreds of millions of shares held by this board. They are stuck.
Many longs may have bought shares here on the assurance from the CEO that a reverse would not be effected. Not only is a RS in effect but one designed to totally wipe out more than 90% of your invested dollars.
Without Peter giving a proper shareholder update, and keeping current shareholders intact and excited, I dont see this company selling the amount of shares he needs to.
Anyway, concerning the exclusivity of a Revenge manufactured parts, it appears Peter is signing exclusive rights to these parts away, meaning anyone can build a Revenge Designs GTM if they have the parts. My feeling is that a significant deal is being forged with Factory Five and whether or not Revenge stays in business, they retain the benefits or work done.
Factory Five has the most to gain from this venture way more than anyone else, including us at this point. The sad thing is that Peter has not even informed us of any progress with FActory Five, whether or not it met their standards.
JMHO I think the big surprise has to do with F5,Penske, or Harrops and is not the RS. Everyone kinda expected an RS at some time, expected more dilution, being kept in the dark so no biggie there.
P.
JC - IF reverse not finalized and in motion, that leaves a window of opportunity for the company to actually work with its shareholders to take the company to the next step.
For the RS to be useful in this current market, they cannot afford to alienate their current longs. I personally would welcome a reasonable RS where a reasonable amount of sustained volume would generate pps volitility (upwards).
So what would the new share structure look like? What kind of RS would be acceptable to enough shareholders that would compel us to reach a further into our pockets in order to have a place on the gravy train?
If 1000:1 RS, then Peter wont be able to sell shares post RS unless its a potential partner buying in.
As for me I'd rather take a hit by a 10:1 RS than be totally wiped out by a 1000:1 RS.
JMHO - P.
Well Shorts, was hoping the gtm release would come before the RS (just a timing thing). GRRR - second time THIS year a "Carnes" company got me. Hopefully this one will die just like prgl.
Folks, prgl also reversed earlier and now sits in the toilet also.
Crap should be new rvgd symbol because I believe the toilet is where the post RS pps will go.
P.
Selling?? Its getting tough to give them away LOL. Who in their right mind would buy with impending RS if it has not already happened?
Most RS these days are designed to wipe the investment to where its not worth the commission to sell whats left as pps immediately nosedives again after RS.
Reversing us while leaving the AS the same should ensure a sustained zero volume occurrance. Thats one huge AS and its that big for a reason.
The only reason to keep the AS the same while reversing is that they plan to issue stock to a new partner? Elvis lives??
In any case its clear the company has no intention of sharing any rvgd GTM success with its current investors. We are being recycled LOL.
Not clear on that. check the sgls ibox info. Not much beyond that, but have to admit I did not ask any of the sgls shareholders if they already converted their preferreds or was done for them....
There is still the question of sgls 24M preferred convertible at 1-100 common, restricted until Feb 09. I figured that the RS would not occur until the shares were converted (240M) so ALL shares were reversed.
Guess I was wrong - whoops....costly mistake. - P.
JC - this rs was engineered a loooongggggg time ago and is only playing out the same as most pinkies. My only hope was that we could actually make it past the debut before either RS or further dilution occurred. Do a study of previous Carnes deals and what happened to companies within a year or thereabouts.
I tried several times to bring myself to buy more and average down but could not bring myself to do it having been caught in a few RS deals over the past six months, prgl ( another past Carnes deal). I am now glad I listened to my inner voice and cut further losses.
That is not to say that a profit opportunity will not present itself again with this stock, as it appears the company is set to release marketing hounds this week after the rs takes place. The only chance of making any money from this one is POSSIBLY with more investment. At least you know the BIG event is just about to happen as far as timing goes.
Like I have said before, the company needs money to go forward and not unexpected given its a start up only a year old and having exhausted its bank, needing cash to move forward.
Even a CEO who has the best intentions to begin with must face reality and make tough decisions. One becomes a pink in order to raise cash and fund operations. This is what Peter is doing and intent of the company upon going public.
If cash was gas then I'd have to say that rvgd must be running on fumes and has been for some time. If you want to stay in the game your going to have to ante up again by buying more stock.
I feel for you and ahdioyoda (and many others) with your large holdings, and hope that the rs is only one for a hundred.
The only solace you can have is that Peter is pulling this RS off at a VERY bad time, and this market is not very forgiving at all. It will not take a genius to figure out that after the RS huge dilution will occur.
I have been following the volume and pps performance of pinkie stocks recently pulling RS. It has spelled the end of more than a few as investors unwilling to touch it. See prgl or teca for example. teca (formally tclt) took only a few weeks to reach .0001 - .0002 again AFTER the rs.
If Peter IS going to wipe out current shareholders with this RS, I sincerely hope the same happens to rvgd stock and Peter goes back to never never land.
Good luck to all in future trades. - P.
For myself I appreciate he let us know he was dropping assets into the warchest - probly before trading resumes. Thats cool with me.
Bigkman: stock split effective yesterday????
The name GTM-R has already been copyrighted I believe by Prototype Development?
When you put all the information together that Peter has released over the past while, you get the impression that both adequate vehicle sales and vehicle production has already been taken care of (a done deal).
Your last post outlines that our Indiana facility will be filling up with other vehicles, right after the release. This could not happen if Revenge were building the GTM's themselves.
BTW, factory five employs a full forty five people. Just how many kits are those boys selling? Thats a pretty good cash burn rate with just employee salaries.
I like how that post outlines that the GTM is the FIRST OEM vehicle, suggesting that perhaps another is on the way?
I can handle yesterdays dump as long as new and larger AS does not happen. When you combine July action of 170M dump with yesterday, thats a hell of a lotta shares at .0001 -.0002 levels to chew through on the way up.
Knowing that the company will need a large cash infusion of some sort still has me apprehensive of buying more. I cannot see how the company can move forward without screwing over current shareholders. I gotta hand it to you large shareholders and your confidence in continuing to load.
Here is to hoping Factory Five comes aboard in a big way!
GLTA - P.
Shadow, perhaps either Emily tipped their hand with the GTM-R as it (the name GTM-R is copyrighted, or opened the company up to litigation...
"Prototype Development Group Copyright Copyright Information PROTOTYPEDEVELOPMENTGROUP.COM materials (including without limitation all articles, text, logos, compilation, and design) are Copyright ©2008 the Prototype Development Group.
PROTOTYPEDEVELOPMENTGROUP.COM materials may not be copied or redistributed for commercial purposes or for compensation of any kind without prior written permission from the Prototype Development Group.
Unless otherwise noted, all vehicle information, specifications, and design are Copyright ©2008 the Prototype Development Group. "
interesting. Nice to see the company is going to succeed but appears to have decided to recycle investors. Wash rinse repeat? This appears to really suck, and right at Xmas too.
P.
A Penske Edition GTM? We know that F5 visited Penske and that Revenge has dealings with Penske....
Thats interesting. I have given more than a little thought on Revenge registering under a new partners name to avoid shareholder interference.
One would think the FFR would keep Revenge at arms length until a successful launch and evaluation by the media though.
Its easy to think of the GTM being used by a tire manufacturer in advertising photos or any of our other potential as yet unknown partners. Pete has had to have had a lot of help Im thinking, and someone to throw some money at this venture.
Be nifty to have a Harrops equipped show/race car as well.
The GTM-R should have its own video on youtube and might be the best source of marketing and exposure aside from media coverage.
Why bother telling us at all about getting the PRI info. if your not gonna share it?
Come now biz. The market truly sucks right now and it would not matter much right now what the company pr'd. The pps is not gonna do much or mean much with such low volume.
Im thinking that the sales must by now be around 3M if they are continuing with Walmart and the other distributers. Im actually thinking of picking up some more - not much just a couple hundred thousand. Its still in play as a lotto pick.
If OS is still 700M or thereabouts I dont see much of a problem of an easy triple from these levels with some decent volume over a month.
I've given up on the company giving out news this year at all and dont count on it. Perhaps sometime in 2009. Hopefully the market is a little more optimistic by then.
P.
JC - I doubt rvgd naysayers even come to Peters mind these days, or even shareholders. He has got to focus entirely on the upcoming debut and making sure everything is perfect.
I would have to say that Peters greatest concern is how smoothly things will go, and what the wider media reaction is gonna be. The car has got to be perfect and while remaining a GTM must be able to convey a visible destinction between our Revenge GTM and those built by other(s) companies.
Factory Five vehicles have won playstation awards at SEMA two years running now with stunning builds. One would hope F5 will be part of the debut but I think they will continue to stay at arms length until partnership details have been hammered out.
We need them to sign off on our production prototype before we get the go ahead, and Peter is still keeping quiet on that one.
GLTA in upcoming weeks, its been a long haul and a down market. 2009??
P.
Thanx for pointing out the obvious. P.
Hey Grant. Just wondering if its true that the MSW pellets once processed produce only a fine ash. If thats true, then where would usse get its fertilizer?
I've no idea where or how usse gonna make money as everything seems to change every few months.
Hope ya had a great thanksgiving. - P.
Nah. Price is up around 120K. Not the first kit car they have built,or will build for you. The GTM is simply another offering. Want a electric Lambo kit car or Ferrari they will build it.
Yeah maybe replace the batteries every two years but then again how much gas worth $$$$ could ya burn in the same time?
Some folks will pay more for a smaller carbon footprint.
Anyhow, I thought some would be interested to know about the electric GTM as the possibility has been brought up before and one is being built and documented on the F5 threads...
Hope everyone had a great thanksgiving and family day. - P.
Hey Ahdioyoda. Sometime ago I posted about a Hydrogen injection company (HYHY)that would be interested in talking to Peter about doing business (by email).
I also posted earlier about a company that can build electric GTMs. Here is one of them now on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___2008-CABRIA-ELECTRIC-SUPERCAR-EV-Electric-Vehicle-Car_W0QQitemZ200280893345QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item200280893345&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A3|39%3A1|240%3A1318
Notice that dealership enquiries welcome. Seems to me Peter could talk to these folks about building an electric Revenge GTM as well as offering hydrogen injection. This would give Revenge an advantage by being able to offer green power if the client wants it.
The other notable claim on electric vehicle is the range in miles....GM is coming out with the VOLT which is good for up to 60 miles. This one is twice that and should almost eliminate need to gas up (on daily basis) for some folks.
Just a little info. for your next chat with Emily or Peter.
GLTA - P.
Despite the AS increase Im gonna pick up some more as pps has dropped 50% and may go lower this week if revenue pr dont show up quickly...
End of month kinda bad timing huh? Rather see it early December.
On factory five site one owner installed a hydrogen injection unit on a 450 hp engine. It now gets just over 30 mpg...its featured on the "whats new" section I think.
If Peter is interested in hydrogen injection I located a company willing to talk to him about distributership/installation center.
Since the GTM gets about 27-28 already, 30mpg 500 hp GTM is very possible and makes it competitive with mini vans.
I am more anxious to hear the GTM debut venue - namely a car show with Revenge Designs taking a display space(s). Please tell me that the PRI event is NOT it.
I thought that there was a major marketing campaign to kick off mid - November? Well, Decemeber is about to land on us and STILL no official word on GTM debut...
One would think that the GTM production prototype completion is newsworthy to shareholders, and that the factory five sign off is a major milestone. IS THE REVENGE GTM READY FOR SHOW OR NOT?? WHEN IS THE SIGN-OFF, WHERE IS THE VENUE??
If new AS of 600M was maxed out tomorrow, while gross earnings of 3M MAY reported,that would still be .005 per share. Still I gotta say OUCH, but was wise to take only a very small position at .001
It chunks get dropped into market I'll scoop some at lower levels yet. Could be though, that shares are needed to pull off another deal that has been in the workz?
How low will she go? Lets see...I'll take another nibble on that 600M shortly.
P.
PRI show info indicates this event is for performance and aftermarker PARTS. NO WHERE DOES IT SAY ITS FOR SHOWCASING ENTIRE VEHICLES.
That said looks like the show may be very productive in terms of Harrop sales, and possibly GTO sales. BTW - 800hp GTO beats the GTO famous rapper 50cent has done for him.
I don't foresee the GTM there, but at an actual CAR show.
The update was great. Apparently they have enough time and staff to not only complete the prototype production GTM(s)but build another separate vehicle. So our GTM must already be done.
As a last note, this vehicle is already sold, and is a custom job that must run at least 50,000. If old Pete can find someone to buy a 50G 2006 vehicle, I have every confidence he can find buyers for the GTM without any contract in place.
Hoping this GTO can find its way into HOT ROD mag. - who knows.
Waiting for the big news to drop (GTM showcasing event)and todays update is a good teaser, and hopefully results in a lot of sales and contacts.
An 800 hp 06 GTO? Wow. Imagine whats he done with the GTM...now thats news worth a pr - not an update.
Looking forward to weekly news releases from now into DEC.
P.
OUR PRI vehicle: The vehicle will be a hi-performance 800 horsepower supercharged 427 Revenge Designs GTO; all of the impressive specifications have been exclusively tailored to fit the customer’s requests.
PRI attendee's:"If you are a supplier of components, equipment or engineering services active in the growing racing industry, capture your share of this powerful market by exhibiting. Conduct business face to face, and get your products into the all-important racing distribution pipeline!"
Whiners begone!
Less than one month of billing...
If company earnings are only two mil and AS is maxed at 200M, then earnings per share is still a penny. Considering current market cap right now please tell me why I should be worried?
The pr projected between three and four mil earnings.
Agreed. Perhaps all the hate mail they must have received and unwanted phone calls from investors have something to do with it LOL.
With no further dilution occuring for some time it is clear they have no further need of more investor money, and for that Im both thankful and hopeful. Not much of a market or pps anyhow. But it does show a company with a sound financial picture.
According to Capt the company now owns 11 acres...for what I dont know but there has to be something behind that. No matter what current investors have to say about the situation right now, a few good pr's with decent numbers would go a long way to bringing in a wave of new investors. The current news blackout will be forgotten in a hurry with exellent news when it does flow.
It would be sweet if they bought back some shares at these prices on the open market. Who knows - they might be entertaining offers for a buy out. Anyhow thinking of picking up a little more if the pps holds down here for a few more weeks.
More dilution? So what? Do some math and use a ficticious OS of 200M. EPS still looks sweet.
KA-CHING....($$$)
HOUSTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Bederra Corporation (Pink Sheets:BDRR - News) announces that its gross sales are on track to be in the range of $3-4 million for fiscal 2008. June 30, 2008 financials will be released as soon as November 30, 2008.
do some quick math - under two hundred million shares OS with a current pps of .0015.
actually think OS is about 110M but using 200M the numbers STILL look kinda sweet to me. Wonder what the profit margin is but even half a penny per share be sweet.
Some of this stock MAY (or may not) give ya a VERY good Christmas. One thing ya gotta say is that the downside looks kinda limited.
HO HO HO...
P.