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No Jeff...There is no "if" for the "Investors". They can dilute at "any time". The "if" statement applies to GTEC choosing to pay the note in shares instead of cash, NOT the "Investors". The investors in the private placement can dilute at their discretion. GTEC has to meet the requirements if it wants to elect to do so.
Naybe you haven't been in pennys long enough to know dilution when you see it.
THIS is dilution, Long: "At any time after the issuance of the Note, any Investor may convert its Note, in whole or in part, into shares of the Company's common stock"
(read: everyone who contributed part of 30 million can turn their pro rata investment into shares at anytime and sell at their discretion)...this stipulation in the arrangement is called TOXIC FINANCING. If you want to know what that means for the PPS just take a look around IHUB.
Finally some resistance...we'll see how long this holds up. Maybe Pope is making sure they can convert their notes. Probably started selling already, ha.
If you think this 30 million deal was a good thing for holders of GTEC then you are absolutely out of your mind. That's all I have to say. There were NO "guarantees", if GTEC doesn't perform up to expectations then pope just dumps 100s of millions of shares on the market. Its a win-win for Pope. Not so much for us. And even if GTEC does do what it agreed to in full then we are still significantly diluted.
LOL. Yeah....right. I hope so though.
The % of income gained is wayyyy outdone by the % of new shares. Plus expect delays as usual with medicines getting approved, etc, we wont see the increased income for a long time. Where do I think PPS is going? Well I think it will hit .05 before it bounces up. We are getting a penny downtick every 15 minutes or so.
Bunch of crooks
It like being in a car crash while in slow motion.
PPS is in freefall.
I see positives for Pope and positives for Cao Wubo. Not us. Sorry. 100s of millions of new shares is extremely disapointing when we were led to believe they would persue a reverse split and uplisting, no matter which way you try to cut it.
Where are you getting "paying earnings dividends" from? Everything I see is to go to "the Investors", meaning Pope, not the rest of us. Maybe I'm missing something. But I don't think that is in there.
thanks...I thought this 8k http://biz.yahoo.com/e/080603/gtec.ob8-k.html was pretty complete as far as telling shareholders the relevant details. There probably will be another filing that fleshes it out more but I doubt it will shed any new light. I'm a skeptic but I hope things work out.
IMO, a lot depends on how impatient the investors get, since any dilution appears to be mostly at THEIR discretion, not GTEC's (unless the pps were 225% above the conversion price which would work for me). In my experience they tend to get impatient pretty quick but we'll see.
good points. The only thing I would say is that my take is:
1. Cao Wubo is not risking his "real" ownership of the company. Whatever goes on in the US can not legally effect anyone in china. But I agree that placing his shares in escrow is definately better than nothing.
2. The 30M, while it sounds like a lot, is not risky at all for Pope because they structured it in such a way that they are guaranteed to get it back. By increasing the A/S, allowing the notes to be convertable at any time, etc.
3. We really need to hear from CCG on how this would affect any RS and subsequent uplisting. Do we have to wait untill the financing is done in 2011 to uplist?
I hope things work out.
I don't know about single digits, probably .20-.15 though. The news came kind of late in the day so people are probably going through shock now reading about it as they digest everything...could gap down tomorrow...hope not.
Carl, I think I'll ask you (and Randy and anyone else) here about GTEC (for obvious reasons). What are your expanded thoughts on the GTEC financing deal? Do you think I am correct in my assessment that its almost impossible for GTEC to uplist in the near future given the huge increase in A/S and terms? I just can't see it happening anymore. The company itself seems to be fine but I don't see how stockholders will benefit for at least until these notes/warrants expire. I don't think they can R/S when they are in all these agreements with pre-split shares can they? Or that they even intend to.
Well I refuse to go down an SWVC-like death spiral because of the noble quality of "patience".
That part is good, but the rest, including
"At any time after the issuance of the Note, any Investor may convert its Note, in whole or in part, into shares of the Company's common stock"
is very bad and will have significant pressure on GTEC's pps. I've seen these types of deals before.
Plus the fact that they are increasing share count just discredits all the hype of uplisting. Still trying to wrap my head around the probable ramifications of the financing but if you have anything substantial to the contrary besides 1-3 word statements I am all ears.
But I think Carl said it best. Time to scoot. Probably will go to .20 or so.
996, I think the following is very clear:
1. There will be no uplisting. No way they can uplist when they are increasing share count like this. 900 million??!!??? Give me a break. They need to be decreasing share count, not increasing it.
2. Pope was just as disappointed with Elsa and the fiasco conference call as the rest of us. They want someone who can communicate better.
3. Pope does not trust GTEC. Combined with the increase of share count, "At any time after the issuance of the Note, any Investor may convert its Note, in whole or in part, into shares of the Company's common stock". This is a highly toxic stipulation.
I am extremely disapointed with GTEC. The pressure is all on them to deliver now, otherwise the PPS is in really deep sh-t. As it stands even with GTEC performing as stipulated, I see the PPS under significant pressure.
Oh I know its not atypical for the bulletin board...and thats part of the issue, given the "typical" BB company, lol.
I know I do need to be more familiar with the company before I invest, working on that now. Might jump in this week, but treading with caution here.
Thanks...The A/S per the 10k is 300M plus 100M preferred; 131 million is O/S...frankly such a large # of shares scares me, having seen so many diluters.
I do anticipate that with the negative cash flow (seems to be due to expansion) that there will be some dilutive private placements coming up, which is fine...but with just over a third of possible shares on the market I am feeling some nervousness jumping in. Would like to see them lay out a plan for uplisting before wading in. They need a R/S in the worst way, imo.
Anyone know they would bring such a large company out with such a large O/S and authorized shares, that could prevent them from ever being anything other than a penny stock for a while? It doesn't make sense to me...why not bring them to the market with much fewer shares and then split later as the company grows? With no independant board members, it seems that uplisting is a ways away anyway...but this is a big enough company where imo it should waste no time uplisting.
Dude, we all agree that GTEC will have a phenomenal return in the near future. That doesn't mean that it will be a straight up journey. Its called value investing. No value investor worth his salt feels the need to prop up his own share prices. Over the long run, the law of the markets dictates that PPS will follow the value of the company. Investor sentiment is a fleety, ethereal thing to be taken advantage of when you can.
If one really believes in GTEC like most of us do, you will have no problem cost averaging down like I and many others I'm sure have. I have bought some at .37 myself, after we dipped from .50. Do I feel ripped off or "abandoned"? NO. Because I bought more at .20.
The kind of person who would panic and sell, or not cost average down, on a forecasted dip based on TA by random people on message boards is NOT the kind of person who should be investing, and I'd rather not have them in our stock, it adds to volatility.
My sendiments exactly
Hey, JP's loss was our gain...if it weren't for his dumb arse, I wouldn't be sitting on the profits I am now.
You gotta understand, its the fundamentals that drive the stock in the long run. Not ask slapping or anything else. When the market gives you a gift of irrationality, you take it.
Also understand that when I talk of a dip, it is a temporary one that I have in mind. Its good for the community on the board to share with each other what might be a good buying opportunity.
I was thinking .28 ...it could be a very brief touch at that level though before shooting back up, awareness is definately raised and I think we have definately entered a clear uptrend and shaken the low .20s off our backs.
Good charts 996, I appreciate including the assumption we will be fully diluted. So, even in a "worst case for shareholders" scenario, GTEC is still massively undervalued. Thanks for going through the time to make that.
Will definately do that...Its interesting because it seems that almost every time I reach out to a fellow otcbb investor whose opinion I respect, they reccomend DPDW. So my interest is there, and I'll def try to build my comfort level with it.
I have some dough clearing in the ole brokerage account that I'm waiting on, need to figure out where to deploy it. So many good options right now.
Yeah that star had me thinking we'd see a red day today. Pleasantly suprised with the action today.
Thanks! dpdw's biz is outside my sphere of competance, I am unfamiliar with the ins and outs of the oil business. So there is a lot i need to read up on before I join you guys, but that info is a lot of good stuff. 'preciate it..
Yep, they are...Thats a big plus in investing in microcaps...You will rarely be down just because the market is down. Now, you might be down for other reasons, haha...but that's where DD comes in. The only stock on this board I'm in right now is GTEC, but I'm trying to learn about the others in my free time.
DPDW and SUWN seem to be the next best two, imo. DFNS (not on this board) is also at an attractive valuation these days. If GTEC continues to climb, I'll probably open a positon in one of those three other ones and hold on to GTEc for the ride.
Gotcha...GTEC is looking nice too. Hope we can break mid 30s resistance soon.
ok, thanks, looks interesting. I will research it more.
I'm curious about SUWN, what is their history as far as dilution? And have they ever hired a stock pumper?
Nope, I haven't flipped much. Mostly everything I bought, including recent purchases, I still hold; hence the bulk of my portfolio still being in GTEC. Flipping's not really my style. I prefer making solid investments in solid businesses that I can have confidence in; at good prices. Which is why I'm in GTEC.
There is certainly a small potential for overnight money in GTEC, but lets not make that the case for people buying the stock. Laying out only best case scenarios only attracts the daytraders and the weak of heart anyway, which makes for a bumpy, volotile ride, as we have seen. Bottom line is that its a solid company in a growing industry in a growing country.
We'll get there. Not overnight though. I think the next time if we see high .20s will probably be the last time. I'm not bottom feeding now, all my money is invested at the moment. Just speculating without being overbullish or overbearish. I got my last little bit of cash in there at .25. I won't pay any more for any stock than I absolutely have to. GTEC is still a good deal at these prices though, don't get me wrong.
Any really good news, big investors out of nowhere, etc. etc. like you mention could completely change the equation and nullify any prediction I make. Being as though the bulk of my portfolio is in GTEC, I wouldn't mind that one bit. :)
I concur....Breaking out of the descending triangle is great, I think you will see us build, and encounter our next resistance at .34 or .35, we will prob hit that soon and then consolidate in the upper 20's again (which would be a great time to accumulate) and then on the next bull run break through the .34 resistance easily.
preach! lol
neh, I think its all the flippers who bought it on the day of the earnings announcement, trying to recoup. The people scared to go long, because looking at financial reports is so boring compared to divining neat patterns on daily charts. Lol, damn those daytraders...when will they learn? We have too many of these guys swimming around thanks to the old company, and not enough "longs". eh...pun intended, why not? :)
I agree....The Amex aint worth it. Just a little better than the otcbb. I will be upset if GTEC does a RS and everything just to uplist to the Amex. We could easily see it not fully valued on that board either.