Linda is biotch...! LOLz JayKay
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no longer applies since 1989
First, lets talk about the first ownership change before you get to the second one. I dont see anywhere in the IRC that states you can just disregard the Lehman equity 100%,75%,50%,20%,10% or anything. The snip bit posted does not address that. It frankly does not mean anything. After the first merger or ownership change, OLD LEHMAN EQUITY will be addressed already
I am not sure what youa re trying to point out in IRC 382? If you are saying old equity (one big share) or whatever can be negated, I disagree and nowhere in IRC 382 supports that.
I am out of post. Bummer...go figure..devil
I just logged into my account:
Type: Reorganization
Questions about this transaction?
Contact Customer Service
Account: Brokerage - xxxx
Date posted: 03/09/2012
Amount: $0.00
Description: LEHMAN BROS HLDGS INC MEDIUM TERM NT SER I 1 FOR 1 EXCHANGE INTO 524ESC7M6
Category:
(optional) Unassigned
Type: Reorganization
Questions about this transaction?
Contact Customer Service
Account: Brokerage - xxxx
Date posted: 03/09/2012
Amount: $0.00
Description: LEHMAN BROS HLDGS INC MEDIUM TERM NT SER IESCROW CUSIP RESULT OF NAME CHANGE
Category:
(optional) Unassigned
You really cannot find this bond? CUSIP 524ESC7M6
You cannot find it on FINRA?
http://cxa.marketwatch.com/finra/BondCenter/BondDetail.aspx?ID=NTI0OTA4N002
Also known as LEHM.HGE
1.25 Class 10B Subordinated Notes means, collectively, (a) the 6.375% Subordinated
Deferrable Interest Debentures due 2052, issued pursuant to the Fourth Supplemental Indenture,
dated as of March 17, 2003, between LBHI and JPMorgan Chase Bank, as trustee; (b) the
6.375% Subordinated Deferrable Interest Debentures due October 2052, issued pursuant to the
Fifth Supplemental Indenture, dated as of October 31, 2003, between LBHI and JPMorgan Chase
Bank, as trustee; (c) the 6.00% Subordinated Deferrable Interest Debentures due 2053, issued pursuant to the Sixth Supplemental Indenture, dated as of April 22, 2004, between LBHI and
JPMorgan Chase Bank, as trustee; (d) the 6.24% Subordinated Deferrable Interest Debentures
due 2054, issued pursuant to the Seventh Supplemental Indenture, dated as of January 18, 2005,
between LBHI and JPMorgan Chase Bank, as trustee; (e) the 5.75% Subordinated Notes due
2017, issued pursuant to the Ninth Supplemental Indenture, dated as of October 24, 2006,
between LBHI and JPMorgan Chase Bank, as trustee; (f) the Fixed and Floating Rate
Subordinated Notes Due 2032, issued pursuant to the Tenth Supplemental Indenture, dated as of
May 1, 2007, between LBHI and JPMorgan Chase Bank, as trustee; (g) the 6.50% Subordinated
Notes Due 2017, issued pursuant to the Thirteenth Supplemental Indenture, dated as of July 19,
2007, between LBHI and The Bank of New York, as trustee; (h) the 6.875% Subordinated Notes
Due 2037, issued pursuant to the Fourteenth Supplemental Indenture, dated as of July 19, 2007,
between LBHI and The Bank of New York, as trustee; (i) the 6.75% Subordinated Notes Due
2017, issued pursuant to the Fifteenth Supplemental Indenture, dated as of December 21, 2007,
between LBHI and The Bank of New York, as trustee; and (j) the 7.50% Subordinated Notes
Due 2038, issued pursuant to the Sixteenth Supplemental Indenture, dated as of May 9, 2008,
between LBHI and The Bank of New York, as trustee.
(D) Section 382 limitation zero if another change within 2 years
If, during the 2-year period immediately following an ownership change to which this paragraph applies, an ownership change of the new loss corporation occurs, this paragraph shall not apply and the section 382 limitation with respect to the 2nd ownership change for any post-change year ending after the change date of the 2nd ownership change shall be zero.
Commons conversion to WMI2 may not be as bad as we thought initially.
There are sooo many shareholders in commons that purchased way up in the $40 range (all the way) who "wrote them off" a long time ago and many clueless technical traders who only look at chart indicators. Coupled that with escaping major dilution from Dimeq and the axe from TPS, to me it looks like a decent conversion rate for commons.
I would not be surprised if it was higher than 20% for unreleased shares.
Can't wait for the results.
Congrats to the commons.
imo
Yes, but as we know after the chapter 11 filing an absolutely huge market was made for Lehman debt. How many old/cold creditors sold their debt (deeply discounted) to vultures looking to possibly profit from the BK? Those individuals who purchased the debt after BK would not qualify as old cold debt. To maximize NOLs, the reorganized company must be comprised of 51 percent old cold debt OR old cold equity.
Any old and cold who held for at least 18 month with certain conditions.
I am out of posts, good night.
imo
Those were the last I was unable to sell. That is the reason.
CTs trade at a premium because of "irrational exuberance". CTs cannot get paid unless the bond is paid. So there is no reason for CTs to be trading higher.
Not being pessimistic, just being conservative.
Thanks
imo
Press Release
March 19, 2012, 5:40 p.m. EDT
Washington Mutual, Inc. Completes Chapter 11 Restructuring Process
Distributions to Creditors and Equity Holders Expected to Commence
SEATTLE, March 19, 2012 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Washington Mutual, Inc. WAMUQ -10.86% ("WMI" or the "Company") announced that its Seventh Amended Joint Plan of Affiliated Debtors Pursuant to Chapter 11 of the United States Bankruptcy Code (as modified, and as confirmed by order, dated February 23, 2012, the "Plan"), became effective today, marking the successful completion of the chapter 11 restructuring process.
In connection with the Plan becoming effective, the Company will commence the distribution of funds of approximately $7 billion to parties-in-interest on account of their allowed claims and the distribution of substantially all of the stock in the reorganized company to equity holders. The Company's common stock, traded over the counter under the ticker symbol WAMUQ, has been cancelled.
As a result of the Plan becoming effective, WMI has emerged as a newly reorganized company, WMI Holdings Corp. ("WMI Holdings"), which will consist primarily of WM Mortgage Reinsurance Company, Inc. ("WMMRC"), a wholly owned subsidiary of WMI that is incorporated in Hawaii, and which will be funded by a $75 million contribution from certain WMI creditors. In addition, the Company will have access to a $125 million senior credit facility to be used for working capital and permitted acquisitions and originations in the financial services sector. Initially, the primary business of WMI Holdings will be a legacy reinsurance business that is currently operated in runoff mode by WMMRC.
"The outcome of this process is a significant achievement for the equity holders of WMI, who will have the opportunity to benefit from an ownership interest in the reorganized company," said Michael Willingham, Chairman of the Official Committee of Equity Security Holders for WMI and a member of the Board of Directors of WMI Holdings. "The new Board of Directors will form a Corporate Strategy and Development Committee to begin exploring opportunities available to the Company to enhance the value of the reorganized Company's assets for the benefit of the company's new shareholders."
As previously announced, Michael Willingham, Diane Glossman, Mark Holliday, Gene Davis, Timothy Graham, Steve Scheiwe, and Michael Renoff will comprise the Board of Directors of WMI Holdings.
SOURCE Washington Mutual, Inc.
Copyright (C) 2012 PR Newswire. All rights reserved
mara, i think you're on top of your game
as much of a stretch as it might be, what do the financials need to look like before cts have a chance of some recovery?
thanks
Ha! Come on my man..Lets hear the spin...I just read your cusip dont exist either? When did you get your "sub bond" man....you know you are entering Goober status and those on the yahoo boards know where you stand next up....LOL..This is getting good....go figure..devil
Is this a serious question? If it is, LOL. So you don't understand banruptcy and you don't understand bonds.
This is sooooo funny, I can't tell if you are serious or trying to be funny.
LOL, I can't stop laughing.
imo
No, I own sub bonds. CUSIP 524ESC7M6" Ha, I dont believe you..Where did you get your sub bonds? How did you buy it? Online? Broker? Dude you just got busted. sub bonds are not corporate bonds.....BTW, you know what BLOCKS they sell for at and what prices?....you are a not a holder...go figure..devil
No, I own sub bonds. CUSIP 524ESC7M6
1.25 Class 10B Subordinated Notes means, collectively, (a) the 6.375% Subordinated
Deferrable Interest Debentures due 2052, issued pursuant to the Fourth Supplemental Indenture,
dated as of March 17, 2003, between LBHI and JPMorgan Chase Bank, as trustee; (b) the
6.375% Subordinated Deferrable Interest Debentures due October 2052, issued pursuant to the
Fifth Supplemental Indenture, dated as of October 31, 2003, between LBHI and JPMorgan Chase
Bank, as trustee; (c) the 6.00% Subordinated Deferrable Interest Debentures due 2053, issued pursuant to the Sixth Supplemental Indenture, dated as of April 22, 2004, between LBHI and
JPMorgan Chase Bank, as trustee; (d) the 6.24% Subordinated Deferrable Interest Debentures
due 2054, issued pursuant to the Seventh Supplemental Indenture, dated as of January 18, 2005,
between LBHI and JPMorgan Chase Bank, as trustee; (e) the 5.75% Subordinated Notes due
2017, issued pursuant to the Ninth Supplemental Indenture, dated as of October 24, 2006,
between LBHI and JPMorgan Chase Bank, as trustee; (f) the Fixed and Floating Rate
Subordinated Notes Due 2032, issued pursuant to the Tenth Supplemental Indenture, dated as of
May 1, 2007, between LBHI and JPMorgan Chase Bank, as trustee; (g) the 6.50% Subordinated
Notes Due 2017, issued pursuant to the Thirteenth Supplemental Indenture, dated as of July 19,
2007, between LBHI and The Bank of New York, as trustee; (h) the 6.875% Subordinated Notes
Due 2037, issued pursuant to the Fourteenth Supplemental Indenture, dated as of July 19, 2007,
between LBHI and The Bank of New York, as trustee; (i) the 6.75% Subordinated Notes Due
2017, issued pursuant to the Fifteenth Supplemental Indenture, dated as of December 21, 2007,
between LBHI and The Bank of New York, as trustee; and (j) the 7.50% Subordinated Notes
Due 2038, issued pursuant to the Sixteenth Supplemental Indenture, dated as of May 9, 2008,
between LBHI and The Bank of New York, as trustee.
Here is your answer.
Prospectus is a guide line ONLY.
CT prospectus is meaningless.
CT is based on sub bonds recovery.
This is before the plan is confirmed.
Now that the plan has been confirmed and effective, EVERYTHING is null and now spelled out in the POR.
If you understood bankruptcy, then I would not have to explain this to you.
Like I said this is clearly your first bankruptcy.
Have a nice night.
imo
It is obvious that you don't understand how CTs are structured and you dont understand what the POR says. It is all spelled out in the POR very clearly.
I am sorry. I can no longer help you.
They best way to learn is to lose money.
Good night and good luck.
imo
It appears that you are not familiar with bankruptcy and how sub bonds work.
Example (keeping it simple):
If a senior get $100 and a sub bond gets $100, then that distribution to the sub bond is reallocated to the senior which now has $200.
Have you head of that song:
Jack and Jill, went up the hill.
Each with a buck and a quarter, Jill came back with $2.50.
What a working girl, now work it girl.
The CTs recovery is based on sub bonds. Sub bonds have their own prospectus. CT prospectus means nothing.
BK is based on absolute priority. A senior is senior for a reason. A sub bond is sub for a reason.
Same for preferred and common.
It is the POR you have to read, not the prospectus.
imo
If there is money for distribution, then they are paid to the sub bonds first, then CT minus attorney fees, trustee fees, cost/expenses, and a possible percentage reverting back to Lehman holding.
So, basically almost at the same time or almost equal footing.
imo
CT being a hybrid of equity and debt is a misconception. They are class 10b, period. Has nothing to do with class 12.
Prospectuses are only a guide line. BK trumps prospectus.
The POR states that all allowed claims are to be paid in full. After the consummation of the plan, any creditor unpaid will be discharged.
Example: If there is only 18% paid on seniors claims, then the balance of the 82% of the seniors is discharged as well as sub bond, and all of equity.
imo
You keep equity intact to preserve NOLs, but keeping them intact does not mean recovery.
You keep sub bonds/CT to enforce subordination between senior creditors and sub bonds. By doing this the senior creditors get a few extra percentage recovery by reallocation of distribution from sub bonds to seniors bonds. Almost like double dipping.
There is a reason why things are structured this way... it is all for the senior creditors benefit, as they are the ultimate beneficiary, no one else.
imo
Because CTs recovery are based on the recovery of sub bonds.
imo
Prospectus is null and void.
imo
Briefly:
The "Q" will stay on. Only the entity that actually emerges from BK will have no "Q".
Lehman will liquidate everything liquid up until the remaining assets/subsidiaries (or illiquid assets in no particular order). Projection is 3 years, with extensions, to liquidate.
Those remaining subsidiaries will either be sold to an acquirer or new shares issued to the remaining impaired allowed claims creditors (plus interest).
Example: The average creditor is expected to get 18 cents on the dollars. The balance of 82% is still impaired. The "value" of the subsidiary will be distributed to that creditor class OR proceeds from a sale of the subsidiary distributed to that creditor class.
If that creditor class decides have the entity trade publicly, that entity will NOT have the "Q".
All remaining impaired creditors will be discharged. Old Lehman debts do not follow the new entitiy after discharge.
End of "old" Lehman and beginning of "new" entity.
imo
Thanks Uzualsuzpect! eom
Good luck everyone. eom
Excellent post. You are one of the very few who is being realistic and understands. Bravo!
Imo
Thanks Nearly, I will check it out. eom
$0.05/pps in 30 days !!!
Over sold.....rebounce!!!
MESA
Rather not get into it since it is pretty much "water under the bridge" and too late now, but lets just say Willingham had a lot to do with it (among other things).
Even with the current outcome, prefered were still the better choice.
We can only move forward and not look back.
imo
Actually, commons are the winners here. Imo/eom
No distribution. Eom
CTs are, for a lack of a better word, fractional interest in sub bonds. Because the sub bonds are in Class 10, then CTs, having an interest in those bonds, are Class 10.
I can assure you that CTs are not part of Class 12.
If you understand the structure of Caps and holding co., then it is more clear. I just don't have the energy to go though a detailed explanation because what I post goes over their head and pretty much is dismissed up until they realized what I actually said a long time ago.
(not directed at anyone in particular, just a general statement.)
imo
I still have no confidence in Cap Trusts. "Lotto play". imo/eom
You guys need to relax. CT are Class 10b, period. They are not Class 12, nor are they lumped into the pool of prefferds or commons. Whomever stated the CTs are Class 12 are unimformed.
They are not cancelled, they are only delisted.
Commons and prefferds are NOT part of LAMCO (wanted to clear that up). LAMCO is a sub.
The $65 billion number is NOT a settlement. It is what is projected to be paid out. Anything above the $65 billion projected are still going to all senior creditors until they are paid 100% of their claim plus contract interest.
There is no difference between allowed claim and approved claim. They are the SAME.
If you do not know any of the above, then this is obviously your first bankruptcy.
Relax... if you guys claim to "be here until the end", then it would not matter if they trade or not.
imo
The only reason why the airline stock and GM stock continued to trade for sometime was because they were NOT getting any type of distribution.
WAMUQ will NOT follow that route. It will ceases to trade in the very near future, as early as tommorrow, and possible as late as March 15th/25th, etc.
Why? Because WAMUQ will be getting a distribution and in order to get that distribution, you must tender your shares in. Those other stocks did NOT have to tender their shares in.
It is as simple as that.
imo
I don't throw salt unless someone one really deserves it. imo/eom
Lehman emerges from bankruptcy
Reuters – 2 minutes 35 seconds ago
(Reuters) - Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc's record $639 billion bankruptcy ended on Tuesday, clearing the way for it to start distributing about $65 billion to creditors starting on April 17, court documents show.
Lehman has said that it expects that first group of payments to creditors to be at least $10 billion.
Lehman, now a small fraction of its former size, collapsed on September 15, 2008 with $639 billion in assets, rocking the foundations of the global financial markets and catalyzing the Great Recession.
Exactly 1,268 days later, the legal end to the case enables Lehman to start paying back the creditors, which include Wall Street firms like Goldman Sachs Group Inc and hedge fund investors such as Paulson & Co, which together had asserted more than $300 billion in claims.
But Lehman Brothers will live on for some time as a sliver of its former self, selling assets and continuing to operate in its midtown Manhattan headquarters, where it is down to two floors.
The company, whose assets include $35 billion in cash, is due to make a second payment in September and then will continue to make periodic distributions in the future as it sells off its remaining holdings.
During bankruptcy, Lehman sold assets, settled claims, and negotiated a plan with its investors on how much to pay back each class of creditor, pitting it against its one-time trading partners, and some of them against each other.
After months and years of negotiations, the groups reached an agreement and Bankruptcy Judge James Peck approved their creditor payback plan in December. Since then, Lehman has tied up loose ends: selling more assets, litigating more claims and settling disputes with affiliates and counterparties.
Now that it is out of bankruptcy, Lehman no longer needs to ask court permission for every asset sale or corporate decision. And the company will continue to liquidate the remaining expected $30 billion worth of assets under a new board of directors.
While bankruptcy is legally behind Lehman, the court process will continue for an uncertain number of years as various claims and suits work their way through the system. As of January, it had spent more than $1.58 billion on professional fees, including lawyers and advisers.
In the past week, Lehman has reached a settlement with its U.S. broker-dealer unit over $7.9 billion in disputed claims, resolved key tax disputes with the Internal Revenue Service and reached a deal to reduce by $1.3 billion a claim from its Bermuda insurance unit.
The company in February sued Citigroup Inc over $2.5 billion transferred to Citi in the months leading up to its bankruptcy. In January, it bought a $1.325 billion stake in apartment company Archstone, a firm in which it already owned a 47 percent stake, in an ongoing effort to control and eventually liquidate the company.
The case is In re Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc, U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Southern District of New York, No. 08-13555.
(Reporting By Caroline Humer, Nick Brown and Jon Stempel; Editing by Gerald E. McCormick)
Funny you say this:
P's don't deserve more than $1000 per share even if we get XX billions