Linda is biotch...! LOLz JayKay
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I just logged into my account:
You really cannot find this bond? CUSIP 524ESC7M6
You cannot find it on FINRA?
http://cxa.marketwatch.com/finra/BondCenter/BondDetail.aspx?ID=NTI0OTA4N002
Also known as LEHM.HGE
Commons conversion to WMI2 may not be as bad as we thought initially.
There are sooo many shareholders in commons that purchased way up in the $40 range (all the way) who "wrote them off" a long time ago and many clueless technical traders who only look at chart indicators. Coupled that with escaping major dilution from Dimeq and the axe from TPS, to me it looks like a decent conversion rate for commons.
I would not be surprised if it was higher than 20% for unreleased shares.
Can't wait for the results.
Congrats to the commons.
imo
Any old and cold who held for at least 18 month with certain conditions.
I am out of posts, good night.
imo
Those were the last I was unable to sell. That is the reason.
CTs trade at a premium because of "irrational exuberance". CTs cannot get paid unless the bond is paid. So there is no reason for CTs to be trading higher.
Not being pessimistic, just being conservative.
Thanks
imo
Is this a serious question? If it is, LOL. So you don't understand banruptcy and you don't understand bonds.
This is sooooo funny, I can't tell if you are serious or trying to be funny.
LOL, I can't stop laughing.
imo
No, I own sub bonds. CUSIP 524ESC7M6
Here is your answer.
Prospectus is a guide line ONLY.
CT prospectus is meaningless.
CT is based on sub bonds recovery.
This is before the plan is confirmed.
Now that the plan has been confirmed and effective, EVERYTHING is null and now spelled out in the POR.
If you understood bankruptcy, then I would not have to explain this to you.
Like I said this is clearly your first bankruptcy.
Have a nice night.
imo
It is obvious that you don't understand how CTs are structured and you dont understand what the POR says. It is all spelled out in the POR very clearly.
I am sorry. I can no longer help you.
They best way to learn is to lose money.
Good night and good luck.
imo
It appears that you are not familiar with bankruptcy and how sub bonds work.
Example (keeping it simple):
If a senior get $100 and a sub bond gets $100, then that distribution to the sub bond is reallocated to the senior which now has $200.
Have you head of that song:
The CTs recovery is based on sub bonds. Sub bonds have their own prospectus. CT prospectus means nothing.
BK is based on absolute priority. A senior is senior for a reason. A sub bond is sub for a reason.
Same for preferred and common.
It is the POR you have to read, not the prospectus.
imo
If there is money for distribution, then they are paid to the sub bonds first, then CT minus attorney fees, trustee fees, cost/expenses, and a possible percentage reverting back to Lehman holding.
So, basically almost at the same time or almost equal footing.
imo
CT being a hybrid of equity and debt is a misconception. They are class 10b, period. Has nothing to do with class 12.
Prospectuses are only a guide line. BK trumps prospectus.
The POR states that all allowed claims are to be paid in full. After the consummation of the plan, any creditor unpaid will be discharged.
Example: If there is only 18% paid on seniors claims, then the balance of the 82% of the seniors is discharged as well as sub bond, and all of equity.
imo
You keep equity intact to preserve NOLs, but keeping them intact does not mean recovery.
You keep sub bonds/CT to enforce subordination between senior creditors and sub bonds. By doing this the senior creditors get a few extra percentage recovery by reallocation of distribution from sub bonds to seniors bonds. Almost like double dipping.
There is a reason why things are structured this way... it is all for the senior creditors benefit, as they are the ultimate beneficiary, no one else.
imo
Because CTs recovery are based on the recovery of sub bonds.
imo
Prospectus is null and void.
imo
Briefly:
The "Q" will stay on. Only the entity that actually emerges from BK will have no "Q".
Lehman will liquidate everything liquid up until the remaining assets/subsidiaries (or illiquid assets in no particular order). Projection is 3 years, with extensions, to liquidate.
Those remaining subsidiaries will either be sold to an acquirer or new shares issued to the remaining impaired allowed claims creditors (plus interest).
Example: The average creditor is expected to get 18 cents on the dollars. The balance of 82% is still impaired. The "value" of the subsidiary will be distributed to that creditor class OR proceeds from a sale of the subsidiary distributed to that creditor class.
If that creditor class decides have the entity trade publicly, that entity will NOT have the "Q".
All remaining impaired creditors will be discharged. Old Lehman debts do not follow the new entitiy after discharge.
End of "old" Lehman and beginning of "new" entity.
imo
Thanks Uzualsuzpect! eom
Good luck everyone. eom
Excellent post. You are one of the very few who is being realistic and understands. Bravo!
Imo
Thanks Nearly, I will check it out. eom
Rather not get into it since it is pretty much "water under the bridge" and too late now, but lets just say Willingham had a lot to do with it (among other things).
Even with the current outcome, prefered were still the better choice.
We can only move forward and not look back.
imo
Actually, commons are the winners here. Imo/eom
No distribution. Eom
CTs are, for a lack of a better word, fractional interest in sub bonds. Because the sub bonds are in Class 10, then CTs, having an interest in those bonds, are Class 10.
I can assure you that CTs are not part of Class 12.
If you understand the structure of Caps and holding co., then it is more clear. I just don't have the energy to go though a detailed explanation because what I post goes over their head and pretty much is dismissed up until they realized what I actually said a long time ago.
(not directed at anyone in particular, just a general statement.)
imo
I still have no confidence in Cap Trusts. "Lotto play". imo/eom
You guys need to relax. CT are Class 10b, period. They are not Class 12, nor are they lumped into the pool of prefferds or commons. Whomever stated the CTs are Class 12 are unimformed.
They are not cancelled, they are only delisted.
Commons and prefferds are NOT part of LAMCO (wanted to clear that up). LAMCO is a sub.
The $65 billion number is NOT a settlement. It is what is projected to be paid out. Anything above the $65 billion projected are still going to all senior creditors until they are paid 100% of their claim plus contract interest.
There is no difference between allowed claim and approved claim. They are the SAME.
If you do not know any of the above, then this is obviously your first bankruptcy.
Relax... if you guys claim to "be here until the end", then it would not matter if they trade or not.
imo
The only reason why the airline stock and GM stock continued to trade for sometime was because they were NOT getting any type of distribution.
WAMUQ will NOT follow that route. It will ceases to trade in the very near future, as early as tommorrow, and possible as late as March 15th/25th, etc.
Why? Because WAMUQ will be getting a distribution and in order to get that distribution, you must tender your shares in. Those other stocks did NOT have to tender their shares in.
It is as simple as that.
imo
I don't throw salt unless someone one really deserves it. imo/eom
Funny you say this: