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If that's the case then "Fried" is a good descriptive word for the situation. Oooops, we accidentally bought up like 10% of the shares. :O)
"I think Fried Frank and the boys went a little hogwild on the purchasing a while back and ended up with more shares than they were supposed to purchase under the trading order."
Been discussed over at yahoo... You can decide if it bothers you or not. It's not as alarming as it sounds... and if you focus on some of the wording, we may be getting closer to a revelation of things sooner than later.
They should be checking to see if the seizure itself was fraudulent.
"U.S. authorities say they are talking to former Washington Mutual (WAMUQ) officials to help determine whether the bank failed because of fraud."
JPM got a lot more than the "banking operations" for the 1.8 billion and I for one hope like heck it bites them in the...
"JPMorgan Chase (JPM) of New York bought WaMu's banking operations for $1.9 billion."
Then do what you've got to do to get as much of your money back as you can. You have my sympathies and my support no matter what happens. I hope you guys that lost in this wind up even or in the green... BIG Time.
"with all due respect, some of us were investors well before any BK bulloney."
If we weren't gamblers we would never have purchased shares of a company in bankruptcy. Let it ride. JPM already made too much known in their own conference calls.
"Banker, better to settle and get the money. going to court is always a big gamble."
Anyone else feel like this is the strong arm being slapped about to whitewash or discourage a lawsuit?
The IRS showed up in court days demanding 12 billion dollars days before the FDIC claim was denied. Now days before a lawsuit is filed we see the same MO at work.
Just my sick mind hardly at work...
You'll have matching heartache if you are simply watching this as news of the lawsuit hits the presses.
Pump the money from the FDIC's coffers. Dump it into WaMu's bank accounts.
"Another pump and dump? I hope not I've been watching wamu since Oct 08 and I'm getting sick of up and down cycle. It's giving me headaches."
Let me guess... Bank of America takes on WM and Lehman?
The issue is more complicated than any of us know. Recently articles have come out where the FDIC is stating they can't take on Citi because of a multitude of reasons including it being a multinational corporation as well as the fact that they "dont want to crush the holding company" in so many words that bad reporting made is sound as if they can't strip banks from a holding company.
"I think you're wrong about banks that are subs of holding co's not being able to be seized."
Yep, and even going back to the OTS press conference the night of the seizure they were asked if the FDIC pressured them to seize WaMu, because word had leaked that this was indeed the case. Then you get the typical... "oh no we worked together and played nice" response.
"Also, the FDIC cannot seize any bank, the OTS seizes banks, and the FDIC receives them"
You can bet your tailpipe that if the FDIC were to lose a lawsuit they'd appeal as many times as possible.
I don't care what anyone says, I'm really hoping for a settlement or to see the government "invent" a use for a holding company and buyout WMI.
Not to say that a full blown lawsuit is horrible, but just look at how slowly things move in court. A case of that magnitude could go on for a long time and really eat up funds that the company could use as it emerges from bk.
Just my 3 cents.
"Another thing to consider here is that the FDIC may not neccesarily settle with WMI so easily. It could go on for years."
You're spot on there. There's actually very little that we can do. As we've already seen, the press is a complete joke anyway.
My question is... why are they interested all of the sudden? For 5 or so months there's been nothing in the press about WaMu that wasn't about some ridiculous IRS claim or a pot smoking immigrant teller that was known for his sombrero and almost as much as he was for handing out loans to children, turtles, and parrots.
I know first hand something was weird when they started emailing me about WaMu Truth.
Maybe I'm just a paranoid assclown, but there's a part of me that really suspects the topic has been black listed for a good long while and now they're going to allow more and more of it to come out.
I have no idea why though, unless the FDIC knows it's about to get it's clocked cleaned.
Again... paranoia and wishful thinking are not good to mix.
"This is much bigger than a group of posters on some discussion board, and it is only a matter of time before $hit gets crazy."
Yeah, I have no idea what to make of it anymore... but wasn't that the third time this week we had AH action on the Hs?
Regardless... that was like 7.5 million dollars worth of movement. Something is up. Hopefully it's positive and going down sometime soon.
1.5 million shares of H's after hours....
The only time I hear anything about WaMu, it's related to jobs being lost or some ridiculous IRS claim or something.
I wonder where JPM's stock would be today if every WaMu bank story about job cuts and such were rightfully reported as JPM firings.
The whole thing is frustrating beyond belief. Hopefully not for much longer.
WASHINGTON -- Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd is moving to allow the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. to temporarily borrow as much as $500 billion from the Treasury Department.
The Connecticut Democrat's effort -- which comes in response to urging from FDIC Chairman Sheila Bair, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner -- would give the FDIC access to more money to rebuild its fund that insures consumers' deposits, which have been hard hit by a string of bank failures.
More
Last week, the FDIC proposed raising fees on banks in order to build up its deposit insurance fund, which had just $19 billion at the end of 2008. That idea provoked protests from banks, which said such a burden would worsen their already shaken condition. The Dodd bill, if it becomes law, would represent an alternative source of funding.
Mr. Dodd's bill could also give the FDIC more firepower to help address "systemic risks" in the economy, potentially creating another source of bailout funds in addition to the $700 billion already appropriated by Congress.
Mr. Bernanke said in a Feb. 2 letter to Mr. Dodd that such a "mechanism would allow the FDIC to respond expeditiously to emergency situations that may involve substantial risk to the financial system."
The FDIC would be able to borrow as much as $500 billion until the end of 2010 if the FDIC, Fed, Treasury secretary and White House agree such money is warranted. The bill would allow it to borrow $100 billion absent that approval. Currently, its line of credit with the Treasury is $30 billion.
The FDIC's deposit-insurance fund has fallen precipitously with 25 bank failures in 2008 and 16 so far in 2009. Some bank failures have a bigger impact on the fund than others, as IndyMac's failure cost the fund more than $10 billion, while many others cost the fund less than $100 million.
A 1991 law generally caps the amount of money the FDIC can borrow from the Treasury at $30 billion, and the FDIC hasn't borrowed money from the Treasury in more than a decade.
Ms. Bair said a change in the law would give the FDIC more options to determine the best way to rebuild its depleted fund. In an interview, she stressed that all insured deposits were already backed by the "full faith and credit of the United States government."
A change in the law would ease "the mechanics of how seamlessly we can access our lines of" funding. "I'm the kind of person that likes to be prepared for all contingencies," she said.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123630125365247061.html
I listen to talk radio and I know when their full of crap, just the same as I know when the cable news is full of crap.
The Military Industrial Complex and the elite bankers are effectively controlling this country. It's been usurped and no one knows because for the time being, they've kept the corporate brand America intact.
A fascist coup attempt failed once... but they got it right this time. It happened in plane sight, but we were too devoid of intellect to see it.
I'm all for debating facts and doing REAL research into why things are the way they are. But most refuse to see the big picture, which is what Z touched on with the NAU talk.
There are many wonderful people in our government. But just about anyone and everyone with any name/face recognition is all about cashing in... and if that means selling us out to china, so be it.
If that means taking the system down in one last massive firesale, so be it. If it means hooking us through the nose and leading us into WWIII to fix this... so be it, at least from their perspective.
We the people are screwed. And I mean that...
Our manufacturing was moved out of here so that we would become exactly as we are, a nation of debtors that don't produce anything but debt. We sell to sell to sell to sell. We don't produce and as such, now we're reliant on "globalization" for production.
And there are a multitude of reasons why they've gone and done that... most of which are of biblical proportions, though most people are too fricken blind to see who, how, or why.
"Why did we move all our manufacturing out there and why do we have the biggest military budget? $500B is 5Trillion in a decade. Thats what Eisenhower warned us about the Military Industrial Complex."
No, closer to 1913. In fact, if you actually read what I wrote, I specifically mentioned a year, not 5 weeks.
"Are you insinuating the socialist agenda started 5 weeks ago?
Are you insinuating that this is an accident and that the last 20 years of Bush/Clinton/Bush had nothing to do with it?
Are you further insinuating that we should then, become more like China as a means of thanking them for their kind hearted nature?
"China holds $2Trillion of US debt. We are owe a Socialist nation our lifestyles. Our homes, credit cards, cars, country clubs, bridges and high ways."
The greedy few you speak of are the same people we'd be turning to as rulers of Amerika 2.0... the socialist states.
They've run already run the country into the ground. Clearly you can see where they went wrong, at least to a degree. You actually trust these people to change their stripes under the banner of socialism?
Better yet, would you like China style medicine, as in... we don't like what you just posted n the internet and the Presidents niece could use your kidneys?
"Are we better today as a nation. We are going and begging a socialist country for money, while our proud capitalist system has derailed because of a greedy few."
And it'll go a little sumthin' like this...
I would guess that the government will do whatever it takes to keep JPM afloat. We'll likely see all kinds of new legislation come to the table in order to keep them alive indefinitely.
Also keep in mind that the Fed lent out like 2 trillion dollars to unknown parties. Dimon and JPM in essence, at least in part ARE the Federal Reserve.
"JPM isn't going to make it. Let's hope the DOW can stay over 5000 or we're all in real trouble."
Looking at how they've been pushing along the good ol' socialist agenda for the past year or so they tend to let things tank to push the agenda forward.
What we're seeing now with JPM and others could be natural or it could be some kind of artificial bloodletting to force the public to accept nationalization, or nationalization through a "bad bank".
I have no idea how to tell what's going on anymore other than JPM and others deserve to have their butts kicked on every level.
It's just a shame that we the people have to take it on the chin and in the wallet for any of this crap.
"JPMorgan is on the skids also.....et z"
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS182775+04-Apr-2008+PRN20080404
Look at it and see what you think they're implying...
"Would you explain what you mean with a little more detail?"
Absolutely...
The article makes it sound like now they want to be able to seize entire holding companies along with the banks.
Regardless, they're either pussyfooting around the idea of seizing Citi and making excuses not to, or they've just revealed something huge.
What a mess...
The government should just buy out Lehman and WMI and create their big bad bank nonsense. They're going to do anyway. Might as well clean up this mess as opposed to nationalizing the other banks... though they've more or less done that already.
What a damn mess this country has been plunged into.
I guess it doesn't outright say it... but you can you tell me WaMu's bank and holding company weren't "irrevocably intertwined?"
“I think what is missing is a comprehensive dissolution authority to address systemically critical firms,” Bernanke told the Senate Finance Committee recently under tough questioning. "The existing rules don’t cover a Citigroup because it is a bank holding company with many parts.”
Both Citibank and the holding company, Citigroup, are enormously large yet separate institutions with assets of more than a billion dollars. But unlike the bank, whose core business is deposits and lending, the holding company’s activities involve a diverse group of financial activities, from investment to insurance, most of which aren't regulated or insured by the government.
The world of finance and the structure of financial institutions have changed in recent decades, but while the government was undertaking sweeping deregulation it failed to make the necessary changes to provide proper supervision, says experts. AIG, for instance, opened up a thrift, or lending, unit, which is regulated by the Office of Thrift Supervision.
In addition, the management and balance sheets of the two institutions have become irrevocably intertwined...
The Fed and bank regulators were not prepared to deal with big bank holding companies,” says economist George Kaufman, a banking expert at Loyola University who also does consulting work for the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago.
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/business/US_Is_Still_Facing_Hurdles_In_Regulating_Financial_Giants.html
I'd say the FDIC saying they can't seize Citi because it's owned by a holding company pretty much constitutes a slip up... to the n'th degree.
Just letting everyone else - JPM SEC FDIC ... keep talking.
Someone will slip up, If they all ready haven't. :)
I've ripped the audio... I have stuff from the OTS and JPM on the night of the seizure as well as what you've posted here all prepped to be presented in movie form.
Nothing but a bunch of contradictions...
It's all gonna come out in the wash.
I was going to post here as I did on yahoo last night and say, Come on, you're reading that wrong. But ehm, wait a sec...
AIG and Citi can't be seperated from their holding companies because they're too intwined? What the hell was WaMu, oil and vinegar?
Logic would dictate that Wahuq would be the safer bet. I don't know that anyone knows how will get what, but the Hs are safer in that they get paid first. If one were playing the odds, that would be the way to go.
"Another point, all WMI stocks are getting down except WAHUQ for all known reason for being first in line after the creditors etc. etc. Then, does this mean that people thinks that there will be chance of recovery for only WAHUQ but not much for others?"
I think JPM is going to claim they got anything and everything of any value. I don't know squat about how the FDIC will react, but judging by other seriously prolonged suits against them, I'm hopefully for a settlement. With that said, I don't really see the FDIC ever playing nice and throwing WMI a bone.
There's a lot of pride floating around up there and as much as others believe they will settle for the sake of PR, the hit job's been out on Wamu for so long that most of America will look at whatever they say "we were following policy" and "wamu was out of control and lent money to anyone that could chew gum" and sadly... the majority of the country will look no further and believe it.
I don't want this to come to a FC related lawsuit, but it wouldn't shock me at all.
"How many here actually believe JPM will throw all their cards on the table come March 31? Or will they take a chance at a contempt of court and some small fines to drag this out until the claims against the FDIC are settled? I think they will have some difficulties explaining the “and other assets” part of the deal. Who knows perhaps JPM will throw the FDIC under the bus first. Perhaps the FDIC will settle the claims WM has submitted before the March 31st Bar Date and throw JPM under the bus.
I am looking for some exciting time here real soon"
Jackson, will they offer an mp3 later? I'm trying to stream it and I I'm on a mac... can't figure out how to get win media or real player to stream on here.
If they're using that 12 hour deal thing as an excuse for something, let alone anything... I'm gonna have to find that recording. I'm gonna trash these liars with their own words.
Sounds like he just wants to justify the handful of beads and shells he traded for a portfolio worth a multitude more than he paid.
"He actually said the exact opposite of that."
Lehman in deal to sell venture capital unit
NEW YORK, Feb 24 (Reuters) - Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc (LEHMQ.PK: Quote, Profile, Research) said on Tuesday it struck a deal to sell its venture capital business to a group led by the unit's management team and investment firm HarbourVest Partners. The price was not disclosed.
The unit will be renamed Tenaya Capital and will have $750 million under management and about 45 portfolio companies.
Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy protection in September after trying to finance too many risky assets with too little capital. It has been selling various assets since then, including December's sale of its prized asset management unit Neuberger Berman to a team consisting of Neuberger's management. (Reporting by Megan Davies; editing by John Wallace)
http://uk.reuters.com/article/marketsNewsUS/idUKN2438895220090224
This is more and more hilarious as time goes on... you can't make this stuff up.
• *DJ Fitch: WaMu Trust Hurt By Lower Credit Quality Receivables
• *DJ Fitch: WaMu Trust Rating Reflects JPMorgan's Expertise
I was responding to another link. Personally... the institutional buys and sells haven't matched up on any 2 sites ever that I've seen since September.
I'm assuming mffais is the most accurate?
Nevermind, after about 20 minutes it's working again.
For some reason ETrade is not showing bids or asks on any wamu or lehman stocks. They're still trading and maybe it's just me... but for some reason they're not showing me bids or asks on either company.
Over the last 3 months it's down 8%. That's nothing compared to the 99.8 over the past year. I don't think much has changed lately aside from volume. Alot of people realize nothing big will likely happen here until closer to March 31.
Many pulled funds to flip elsewhere in the meantime.
A BK judge has a lot of power and while I'm not positive I would assume that it's possible that the Judge could force a similar conversion though it would or could negate the NOLS as such a conversion would cause a substantial ownership change as those that own Prefs are then given a massive upgrade in ownership through a like conversion.
The reason for the conversion in the article is to give the government a greater ownership role in Citibank. It seems unlikely we'd ever see something like that happen with WMI because it would effect ownership and as such... would wipe out the NOLs.
Just my guesswork anyway.
I don't believe WMI could convert similarly (in BK) without the judge approving of it. Once out of BK then I believe they have to live with the contractual rules of the applicable prospectus(es).
I have held everything... sold some q's to flip siri, then boght back into the qs on Friday.
I'm weird like that though...
I believe there has been... I don't know the dates, but as of late I've seen a lot of reports posted around of "big boys" dumping.