Democracy starts with you, tag your it! ...Thom Hartman
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I guess my overall point is that COOP's PPS is always lagging far behind where many say its actual value PPS should be,.... its way undervalued. Why?
Whether COOP's buyback shares are 'actually' canceled, or "typically" according to your AI (infers a maybe sometimes), or whether COOP is holding them in house as "treasury shares" and the smart people in the room know dilution is coming...something is holding this PPS down. It's not like people are beating down the doors for shares here cause there's a lotta room between $85 and $200+ PPS, if it's so undervalued as J. Bray says.
There is a market uncertainty and insecurity about the share buyback apparently. imo they know something is coming, and the market has had its fill of present conditions. It's reached saturation. Which is why I say the PPS today is baked into the cake.
Where has COOP declared the result of their share buyback program has/is to permanently retire these shares? If they were retired, and/or the market valued these shares as permantly retired, then the PPS should be even higher than what JWW has calculated..ie far north of $200 PPS. The only plausible explanation for a stale PPS compared to where it should be trading north of $200, is if dilution is expected. The PPS has risen incrementally to $85 over the past year as shares have been increasingly repurchased by COOP over the last year. The only thing that explains a throttled PPS versus actual value, and despite COOP's share buyback, is that dilution is right around the corner - or at least the general market fears that. I think dilution is baked into the cake already - which is a good thing. If repurchased shares are ultimately redistributed as payment on principle of legacy assets (sans 15 years of interest) that are newly freed up as the receivership terminates, and if dilution is baked in the cake...then imo we should/would see a PPS much higher than it is now, once the market realizes what COOP just gained for its share re-distribution
What's the fair PPS gonna be if all the shares COOP bought up, get redistributed back ? Where we are at currently? Maybe the $200-250 'fair pps' has never happened because those that know, know dilution is coming - or are waiting for COOP to clarify. So maybe the PPS we languish at, is so far below your 'fair PPS' because current prices are baked into the assumed coming dilution cake.
And Dime?
Its not tradeable at Schwab yet, but the fact that it actually shows up now using the search function, is very notable to me. And I have tried multiple times over the past years to search these at Schwab, solely for indication of possible action on the horizon
Makes you wonder eh? If JPM is now starting to pay off the various tabs at WAMU bars around town, this could be a possibility...in the lead up to closing of the receivership, which seems closer than ever.
Sorry if you sold your UQs, but you're not gonna lose on Ps, Ks. Nor has anyone lost anything if they still hold their original WMIH/COOP shares - those things have been a rocket, and I have zero complaints about COOP. So whatevssss, if you think you're screwed. If you actually released anything
Thanks for posting links to those trusts. I’m blown away by the Ks now showing. Making me wonder about whether the Lehman CTs are gonna blossom next.
Those people pushing Ps wanted you to sell all your UQs to them. UQs always own the bulk of the estate.
The 939s are WMI owned assets collateralized with WMB written product. That’s what AZ means by intertwined I think.
Term sheets (think GSA) could've preserved first right of refusal purchase rights by JPM after any TARP statute of limitation expired..if BBob statement is even actually true. Could explain why this has taken so friggin long. In other words, both statement could be right. A person could say it was prohibited, and could also say JPM bought lock.stock.barrel...because they haven't closed the transaction yet. Like buying a house under contract (the GSA), where an escrow account is then opened with a closing date, the closing date gets extended multiple times - however both buyer and seller agreed to grant multiple extensions to closing date as needed (thx to coffee committee, the fdic receiver and corp, etc.)
thx John!
Math and share calculations are not my thing. I'm trying to follow 😄 So is it like of 36M in potential reconstituted COOP shares at new $50 value after share reconstitution/dilution = $1.8B worth of new COOP to pass out to those who released. So $1.8B value x 100,000 former UQ released shares by someone (easy math) = 'A MASSIVE friggin number (turn calculator phone sideways) / divided by / 36M shares = $5M
so... a released UQ holder receives $5M in new COOP shares per 100,000 released UQs napkin math? and that's not including 15 years of interest, not including Ps, etc. that would come via various other entities/funding.
Or am I using wack math
"The 'SEC trackable' Preferred Managing sub"s latest SEC filing 2/28/2024 ...STILL....shows the same Seattle address since the inception of the WAMU/Seattle Art Museum collaboration aka later became Russel Investments Tower after receivership. Address: 1301 Second Ave WMC (mail stop) 3501a, Seattle 98101.
Interestingly, the same Seattle address mail stop for the 'preferred managing sub' when cross searched, is shared with a David 'Glen' Davenport, attorney. When you look him up, he has ZERO online presence in Seattle for anything other than this historic Seattle address - not one peep, article, or review, nothing .. But he does show up as an attorney for JPMChase Bank NA under the Texas State Bar. Started in Plano TX just after the Nationstar 'registrant' consummation.....just a quick minute suburban drive to COOP's headquarters in Coppell TX !!!!! It really couldn't be more clear, who's watching over everything... lol. from the preferred managing sub (contains 2017 other securitization subs folded in), to legacy WMI, to reorganized WMI, and to the 'registrant' of WMIH....🎶he's got the whole world in his hands 🎶
things that should make one go hmmmmm. except maybe those of us who paid attention. 😆 Thanks for being persistent in posting at the HUB.
XXXX - pay me
IF that even happens, just don't remove more than $1m per year to stay under 20%. David Tepper tears won't hurt my feelings
Maybe its a custom stretched Ferrari, lol? Works for limos
COOP doesn’t own legacy P preferred assets. WMIH owns COOP, and WMIH separately owns P preferred assets.
COOP (frmrly nationstar) can’t own P preferred assets without paying for it…and I don’t know if that’s even ever gonna be on the menu. P preferred assets are instruments for WMIH (legacy WMI) benefit. Remember that’s how WMIH paid KKR’s preferreds A & B among other things. But KKR has been paid off years ago, and WMIH’s P preferred managing sub, has been storing the income ever since.
There is baby 'xxxx' and big gorilla 'XXXX'. WMIH is the child corporation 'xxxx'. WMIH is not the Parent 'XXXX'. The actual Parent corporation of WMIH is the BIG 'XXXX' who's identity has become clear from the relationship those 'now paying dividends' have from the WMB bonds, which could only be possible if, a certain so-and-so is 'XXXX'
WMIH, the child corporation 'xxxx' owns COOP, among some other legacy subsidiaries of WMI...like a certain 'Preferred Managing Sub' for Ps that still pumps out income. And oddly enough, WMIH ('xxxx') only SEC reports and trades as if COOP was it's sole business - WMIH only uses Nationstar's former shell to represent the whole of itself 'xxxx' and report as its sole operations. Which is laughable... The other legacy WMI subs such as that certain 'Preferred Managing Sub' still operate almost invisible, thanks to SEC regs regarding FDIC receivership and securities. The Preferred Managing Sub's income is still SEC trackable to this day,,, income is made and reported to the SEC, but where it is actually 'held' is the question...as WMIH isn't forced to report that portion of its income...yet....
The conclusion of any LIBOR settlements impact, against the FDIC's WMB receivership's tentacles wrapped around our tangled legacy WMI interests, will force the acknowledgement and public accounting of these former 'safe harbor' subs. How exactly it is done....I await with restless anticipation, for the final act.
Mr. Cooper price offering on $1 billion in senior notes!
https://investors.mrcoopergroup.com/events-and-presentations/press-releases/press-release-details/2024/Mr.-Cooper-Group-Inc.-Announces-Pricing-of-Offering-of-1-Billion-of-Senior-Notes/default.aspx
😆 Good point, this would wrap up overnight if so
And now Schwab after hours showing $66.. interesting.
well, the proving date for class 10 was on the 21st, so being after that date might’ve been the cause for the order failing.
It’s surprising no one’s really talking about todays PPS. The MB is clogged with sky is falling sentiment
A couple weeks ago far prior to the deadline - I was also confused and sent proof of my holdings at Schwab (redacted except details specific to the CTs I own) to the email and ATTN: to Diane N. something. My gut says its not necessary because my holdings are in street name, but after seeing so much misleading #$$#% with WAMUs BK over the years, I felt I needed to send something anyways.
I couldn't access the claim form back then either...it went to an error page..too many redirections or something. However, the way the statement reads, they ask for your proof of claim, and if requested, to send them more detailed information about my holdings. This tells me 4 things: PWC must know all about Street name holders if only a general a proof of claim is required. Secondly, if they have questions about a claim, they say they will ask you to provide further proof (which I did, because the claim form is non-existent). Thirdly, this proof of claim information about my personal proof of holdings "as may appear to the administrators to be necessary" seems like its not such a big deal,...as if they already really know. Fourthly, the PWC letter that mentioned the deadline and the 'within 2 months payment schedule', actually only includes a 'transfer of claim' page, to inform them if you sold your CT interest to another party. So why would PWC include a 'transfer of claim' form a person could print out directly, but not include a 'Proof of Claim'? Tells me the Proof of Claim page its not really necessary, and they know who holds what... I'm guessing the Proof of Claim is really for people who don't hold in street name.
It will be telling after the November 21 deadline, if the sell feature at Schwab is also then frozen, just like the Buy button hasn't been available for a while. If money is coming within 60 days, I think they'd need the CTs to stop moving around amongst different holders until its all caught up
At the end of the day, I have sent a copy of my holdings to put my mind at ease. Overkill? probably...but..well is it? lol...
The bottom of the PWC letter does say "A creditor who has not proved their debt by the last date for proving may be excluded from the dividend"
‘..a distribution within 2 months of November 21, 2023’s proving deadline’
Says it all right there, don’t it 😃
Was the letter just for ECAPS? UK holders? Will CT holders get different notification?
Another version: https://www.pwc.co.uk/services/business-restructuring/administrations/non-lbie-companies/lbh-plc-in-administration/dividends-to-creditors.html
COOP, aka Mr Cooper Group Inc, aka 'the registrant', has an "Ultimate Parent" corporation as verified by GLEIF.org, that could be shorting COOP without being an insider... from one pocket to the other.
GLEIF.org is the international legal entity indentification (LEI #) platform, that every single corporation derives their LEI # from.
According to GLEIF.org, COOP aka Mr Cooper Group Inc has a "Direct Parent" and an "Ultimate Parent" who can remain anonymous due to a 'consolidated accounting exception'.
For kicks, what if something like JPM was COOP's "Ultimate Parent"? No wonder we haven't ever seen any other public proof due to consolidated accounting exceptions for anonymity. JPM could be shorting COOP to control its PPS for COOP's future mergers? or maybe JPM is shorting COOP to buy up cheaper shares for itself to flip later - just another way to make old WMI pay for itself ? I'm sure there's other scenarios. But it is curious how COOP always trades far below book
is OOP shorting itself to buy up shares?
Not saying RD is correct, but to your question, banks that conspired to manipulate LIBOR negatively affected other banks like WMB and WMBfsb, who were owned by WMI - so ultimately WMI was harmed or lost income from LIBOR manipulation. I think any LIBOR lawsuit proceeds on behalf of WMB/fsb pass thru the receivership and reduce the FDIC's bottom line on the WMB balance sheet. Altogether, the theory is that it could maybe be part of positive wave that overcomes the negative FDIC WMB estate, and residual could flow back to WMI. I think that's the theory at least.
Maybe its oversold, and there's a 'owners of record' date upcoming.. if nothing else, holding could make for a good squeeze
When you say Trust as if there's only one......There's multiple Trusts out there other than the WMILT. Just like holding marbles in your hand, the WMILT was just one marble. Now take the WMILT marble and throw it into the pond - its gone - the WMILT is dead. The remaining marbles (P,K Uq Trusts) are what's left today - whose asset pools were frozen in safe harbor outside of Chapter 11's sticky fingers. There are other Trustees/Trusts STILL to this day managing P, K, and Uq assets, SEC reporting.
.. if she released - her 'future distribution allocation' isn't coming from the Trust called WMILT. It's dead and gone - WMILT has no future!
A released share future allocation distribution comes from fiduciary Trustees of Trusts managing Prefereds Kqs, Pqs....or other Trusts managing Uqs depending on what flavor you held and released.
The separate trustees managing these separate Trusts know who their beneficiaries are, and how to reach them via DTC.
Thanks for the clarity. From my understanding, DOR resale sales tax accounts go dormant after 2 years of inactivity - no more sales revenue. However a DOR presence could still exist to collect taxes paid / routed through 3rd parties. For example, in a real estate sale, excise taxes are collected by title & escrow and forwarded to the DOR on the sellers behalf, even if they don't have a licensed presence.
Other than to prove a charity exemption from paying tax, I can't imagine why else it was open. But it's not open as of Sept 25, 23 as you said.
I'd say this is all just proof the WMILT is dead and gone, just like the Chapter 11 is dead and gone. The future is/was whatever WMI's Preferred managing Sub that still operates and SEC reports regarding Pq,Kq, as is the still accumulating WMI capital trust returns for Uq. And of course there is WMI Holdings/WMI/now COOP that some received in shares as well, if they haven't sold it.
I respect anyone taking the time to search for the last puzzle piece we are all missing, but anything in the WMILT or within the Chapter 11 umbrella of 'certain assets' is a dead end box canyon. There's nothing left there.
Our future is literally spelled out in the relationship between COOP and it's Direct Parent (xxxx)...&...COOP's Ultimate Parent (XXXX).
It's all gonna get tied up in pretty bow one day. The 'when' is the puzzle piece. Figure out the Direct and Ultimate Parent's relationship to legacy shares who released, and COOP's future, and you'll know what you own.
There is no actual "license" for the WA DOR. The only way to be licensed literally, is through the WA SOS. Once licensed, you get assigned a DOR account based on your SOS corporate identity. They are hand in hand. For the DOR account to be active, buy closed/dormant for tax purposes is with incorrect information somewhere along the line, or...a very interesting research topic. However, didnt the WMILT state they donated their cash residue to charity around September 2022(21) ? The DOR account, no tax...could exist simply due to WMILT needing to show tax exempt status for those donations due to charitable donations...in other words, it wasn't an excise taxable exchange of money transaction.
We don't have an income tax in WA. We do have a sliding scale Excise Tax of about 2% for most people's real estate transactions. I don't know all the ramifications of having a tax paying presence, without being a legal corporate entity allowed to conduct business in WA.
To really dig into it and speculate, I'd have to actually see filings or proof of these occurrences to understand the context. The only reason I can guess you'd need a DOR account without tax collection and without an SOS license, is if there is nothing coming in as a taxable transaction.
Seeing as how the WMILT is closed up shop, I'm inclined to believe that this is all just tidying and wrapping up WMILT, as WMILT is no longer a conduit for returns.
No surprise to me. Washington‘s corporate filings & registration is a completely different department than the Dept of Revenue. They rarely communicate. You have to file and register separately with each. The WMILT hasn’t been active in WA for a couple years regarding its legal existence. I’m not surprised the Dept of Revenue finally closed the book on their end. It could be that when the OP who discovered it open recently, prob triggered some movement to verify current status as non active.
In a separate but similar note, DTCC’s agent GLEIF.org still reports Mr CooperGroup, Inc has having a Direct Parent corporation, and an Ultimate Parent at the top, using a non-reporting anonymous exception. After posting weeks ago, the info remains the same, no one has challenged or corrected those facts on an organizational or authority level.... that MrCooperGroup inc is just a SEC Registrant subsidiary for its Direct Parent (xxxx), who both operate at the privilege and pleasure of the Ultimate Parent (XXXX).
Incidentally when I reported this Direct/Ultimate Parent info years ago based on DTCC’s former entity status tracking sub, GAMEI - a domestic USA company, reiko filed a challenge and the info was changed/deleted. Now that DTCC uses GLEIF.org an international entity tracking company not beholden to USA courts and SEC, the info about MR COOPER GROUP’s Direct/Ultimate Parents reports and holds as truth
Price didnt matter for NQ and KQ. "This security is accepting closing transactions only". The only transaction this security class is allowing is either for people selling out their positions for good or buying back a short position. No other option. Not available for me to Open another position in these securities. This tells me Class 10 is getting ready to be paid based on the recent court transcripts of substantial funds available
NASDAQ def: "Closing transaction
Applies to derivative products. Buy or sell transaction that eliminates an existing position (selling a long option or buying back a short option). Antithesis of opening transaction."
Interesting note: I tried to buy more NQs and KQs from Schwab today to add to my holdings, and the order was cancelled for the reason:
"Order messages
1. Your order cannot be accepted. This security LEHNQ is accepting closing transactions only. (DO911)"
Payday is coming.
Mark up? Wait till all the foreclosures and short sales start kicking in again next spring because people have been overpaying for real estate for the last 6 years, thanks to nearly free money on 3% interest rates. All the home buyers who only put 10-20% down are f.d as real estate values are already down nearly 10% and counting, especially when you throw in closing costs and taxes to close a transaction, and there's tens of millions of recent home buyers who are trapped for years to come, or bail/buy themselves out at closing to protect credit, or they short sale / foreclose.
Yes indeed! I'm just stunned to see it spelled out in the open so casually. No legal-eze, no semantics...just like its written on a chalk board. COOP has a Direct Parent & and Ultimate Parent. People can argue about who's who, but there's no contesting the fact that COOP has mislead who pulls its puppet strings - and its not themselves.
That's exactly right. AZs been saying this for years. COOP is just a registrant.
COOP's Direct Parent (xxxx) and Ultimate Parent (XXXX), use "consolidated" accounting schemes (COOP as registrant) to hide behind COOP's skirts in anonymity. It's ironic that a global G20 regulatory authority (FSB) that's responsible for issuing LEI #s (Legal Entity Identification) around the world to stabilize global financial markets, and whose domestic influence is through the DTCC (prev GMEI, now GLEIF.org)...is where all COOP's secrecy is laid bare.
Goodietime: I got your message, I dont have PM. I will not post on Boardpost. When AZ and Ron got kicked out, someone with admin access on BP was not only reading my PMs on BP, but also accessing my private WAMU group Gmails.