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The FDIC was harmed by LIBOR, not WAMU.... why?... the FDIC was over insuring the Liabilities of WAMU banks by "inflated" balance sheet liabilities caused by the bogus interest rates...the FDIC was not receiving the proper fees that they charge banks to insure these liabilities in case of failure of the banks...so, if WAMU, or WMI was harmed by LIBOR, why didn't they initiate the lawsuit to begin with?... why did the FDIC sue on behalf of the banks?... its because the FDIC does not do banking, or borrow money to make loans, but was "harmed" because they were "over insuring" the cost of the Liabilities for the loans that the banks made...if the FDIC receives a settlement from LIBOR, they will keep the money...why would they share it with the banks who probably were complicit in setting these interest rates to begin with.?..Lodas
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCOURTS-dcd-1_09-cv-00533/pdf/USCOURTS-dcd-1_09-cv-00533-0.pdf
WMI sued the FDIC for illegal taking of its assets which they claimed the properties that were given to JPM as part of the receivership was illegal.... JPM argued that it was an intervenor, meaning that the properties belonged to them as a result of the PAA agreement between them and the FDIC, and IN NO WAY WAS IT AN ATTEMPT TO STEAL WMI ASSETS, OR WAMU"S ASSETS....simply put another way, JPM did not attempt to steal WMI, and WAMU assets before the bankruptcy, but was given to them after the receivership was done , and that JPM paid for them legally, and should be an intervenor in the lawsuit between WMI/Wamu vs. FDIC case # 0900533 in D.C.....the settlement of this case awarded WMI about 250 million dollars, not the 307.9 billion that ron has continually asserted... also, Home Savings and Loan, HS Ahmandson, Great Western, and some other savings and loans were given to JPM as part of the PAA...the Banks names were changed from savings and loans to "Banks" under the aegis of JPM....no where in any filings does it say anything about 363 and 365 Sales of property before the chapter 11 closed... any discussions about 363 sales did not reach the level of adjudication by the court, and does not appear in the Amended POR 7 document....Lodas
Real estate cannot be bought or sold until proper ownership is established... this is done by a Title Search of the property by brokers or escrow offices before the property is sold and transferred to the NEW OWNER..... so, JPM could never have sold the WAMU building unless they possessed Title to the property and building.... this is Real estate basics 101 which you apparently do not understand, but just sound off at the opening in the mouth...Lodas
what makes you so sure WMI held Title to WAMU buildings and related assets?....JPM acquired WAMU banks and related Assets....WMI was a holding company to conduct business affairs and held assets in Trust that were generated by the banks only, not physical properties like buildings, paintings, or airplanes... for example, WAMU held stock in Visa, wind farms, and Savings and Loan companies like Great Western Financial which Jamie got with his purchase for 1.89 billion dollars... how do I know".... my neighbor got a job reworking mortgages of GWF in chatsworth , calif when Jamie visited the headquarters, and gave a pep talk to all the employees about a new era under the control of JPM.... he got that building , as all others free!!!!.... this was the cost of the screwup of Kerry Killinger and the BOD writing subprime loans to aliens with liar loans...Blame Killinger and the BOD for your loss,,, Lodas
yo ron?........where is your substantiation that the WMB NOTES are backed with 26 billion dollars????....there is no record of this assertion anywhere, in any documents as posted by the FDIC, JPM, or WMI.....if you have a link to this vital piece of information please submit it to the message board for review..., otherwise it is just a personal belief and should be so stated...what is actually known is that the 16 billion dollars in depositor runs on WAMU caused it to be placed in Receivership, and the FDIC is still short about 14 billion dollars on the liability line of WAMU... also, what is known is that JPM squandered WAMU banking assets and wrote them down to Negative equity thus stiffing the WAMU Bondholders, and taking the assets of Great Western, Home Savings, Providian, HS Amandson, and some others for free...so, IYO, or with factual documents, where is the source that 26 billion dollars is backing the WAMU Notes... TIA...... Lodas
nova.... the auditors in the K-Mart chapter 11 did declare the property assets to the court, however, they valued them way below the market price.... Eddie Lampert bought the debt at a huge discount along with the real estate... after the chapter 11 closed, Eddie employed Fresh Start Accounting and revalued the real estate up which were worth billions....and the rest is history.... JPMC did the same when they got WAMU banks and related assets for 1.89 billion... JPM wrote down the assets to negative value which allowed him to get Providian, Home Savings, HF Ahmandson, and some other savings and loans WAMU had for nothing...its the same motis operendi at a pawn shop when you are broke and need money badly.... you go in to pawn a 25000 dollar Rolex watch, he gives you 2500 dollars in pawn, then turns around and sells it to a buyer for 25000 if you dont return to claim it and pay the 2500 back with interest....Lodas
what was the evidence that WMI held no off balance, or Safe Harbor assets??....there was never any financial reporting by 10-K yearly SEC required company audits that showed up on any reports...no company that sells stock to the public can remove assets, and place them somewhere else without an audit trail as to where they went....Imagine that a stock you owned secretly removed assets from the balance sheet without telling shareholders... THAT WOULD BE FRAUD!!!!!!!!...In the Feb 2012 MOR handed to the bankruptcy court , (20.7 billion) in shareholders RE was shown on the line entry... where did it go?... there was no mention that it went somewhere... if WMI had moved the money "somewhere", it would have to be stated, else it would be fraud in reporting to the SEC, and the IRS...in short, the entry was a 20.7 billion shareholders RE LOSS as a result of the GSA settlement where WMI was given a 5.89 billion dollar NOL for cancelling their stock in WAMU...Lodas
my long stock positions on Weed (CGC) and Tilray, and related Put options made my portfolio jump 26,000 dollars yesterday when Weed went up to 15 dollars per share, and Tilray climbed too....I am all over Weed having sold PUT options when the stock fell to about 2.65 from 5 dollars on the 1/10 Reverse split a few months ago...it seems that Weed, and Tilray have achieved "meme" status after the shorters had a field day for years now...shorts will pay bigtime to cover as Jim Chanos made millions as a short seller... he recently gave up and liquidated his short hedge fund because he said "the game has changed on wall street"... meaning that contrary investors buy heavily shorted stocks and trap these mofos that game the markets.... dont get caught shorting Coop, as the float is very small, and most of Coop stock is held by "strong hands".... Lodas
WMIH has told you in plain english that in return for your release, new stock was given for your claims in the old company... they also said that no more distributions are going to be made, ever.... they said in no uncertain terms that the Title to all assets belong to WMI, JPM, FDIC, and that the estate belongs to the reorganized debtor in all instances after reorganization, and nothing should be construed otherwise as to the owners of the estate....spinning stories of personal wishes to own WMIH estate after 12 years is nothing but folly, and hype, and is meritless...I suggest that you read the amended POR 7, the chapter 11 closing document, the GSA, and the FDIC reports that say nothing will result in monetary returns for equity classes when the Receivership is closed...classes 19, and 22 are "impaired from future recovery, as they were cancelled, extinguished, and all rights to former prospectus is null and void..... what dont you understand about what these official documents reveal?.....Lodas
b3....there will not be any money going to equity holders if the FDIC gets settlement money from LIBOR.... why?.. the FDIC balance sheet is billions in the hole from Bank borrowings at the Discount window by "Zombie" banks ready to fail this year... we just saw the tip of the iceberg last year with NYCB, and the one JPM got recently, and (cant remember the name), and a few days ago First Republic?.....most of these zombie banks, including Bank of America is carrying "mark to market losses" on their balance sheets because they invested in Treasuries when interest rates were low in 2021, and 2022, and the FDIC is allowing them to carry these losses... but FED borrowing by Banks is over, and they will have to declare "mark to market losses"... this is what brings these "zombie banks" into receivership...so, the Credit card debt for people is high, Government deficits are 34 trillion, states are running huge deficits, commercial real estate set this year to refinance "zombie empty buildings". war financing for Ukraine and Israel, Treasury Bond sales at higher interest rates if Powell does not lower rates as expected, and housing market pricing, and rents starting to crack....downwards, while cost of living going up...The FDIC is broke, and is in bad shape if there is a banking correction on the horizon...I read this in an article on the news a few days ago... all is not good for the monetary situation, and the Dollar dominance is at risk of losing its place as the reserve currency...Debt is all to high in every category of fiscal finance from consumers to state and Federal government.... watch your "six", as AZCowboy says... your wealth could be at risk... Lodas
whats funny is that you expect money without ever reading the official documents!!!!!...Pick read the documents years ago, now that was smart..... Lodas
"SOON" is non sequitur in describing the time of an event horizon...the time value depends on a concurrence of unpredictable events not under linear control....thus, it is not an absolute value, but a wishful exercise in "hope".... Lodas
judge not, and you shall not be judged, sayeth the proverbs.....what Dimon does, or did, is not your business, but the business of finance... every effort you made to manufacture a reason to be paid more money was in contradiction to every official documents put out by authorities that handled the chapter 11, including members of equity who participated in the discussions... Failure can be placed directly at your doorstep since others were pleading with you to just read the documents , and were villified, placed on ignore, and discarded as charlatans...there will be no recovery for you no matter how many theories you expound because the company has already said 11 years ago that all recovery claims were finished....... Lodas
If WAMU, or WMI was harmed by LIBOR, then why didn't they institute the lawsuit instead of the FDIC?....the reason is WAMU,WMI did not have a case, or was harmed, but the FDIC was in insuring the Liabilities of WAMU Banks which they were not being paid for !!!!! duhhhh.....so, since the FDIC does not borrow money, they were harmed by the bogus interest rates ,not the banks.....Lodas
The borrowers and the FDIC was harmed by LIBOR, not WAMU... why?... WAMU just passed the higher interest rates to those that took out loans... The FDIC was harmed because they were over insuring the Liabilities of the WAMU banks and was not being compensated from the fees they got from the banks...WAMU was not involved in derivative contracts so they did not suffer losses like AIG did, and had to be bailed out,,,, WAMU sold home loans to GSE's, and MBS were packaged in Tranches and sold off to investors... there will be no LIBOR settlements going to WAMU, or WMI, .... the FDIC will keep any settlement monies to work off the 14 billion dollar loss on WAMU's balance sheet caused by the 16 billion dollar "run on bank deposits"...Lodas
Enterprise value of 210 million....this corroborates the statement of Rosen, who said WMI held no Safe Harbor assets, and that they were all sold off to GSE... the document you posted was viewed by all parties to the agreement, discussed by lawyers and accountants, signed by the judge, and met the requirements of the U.S. Trustee bankruptcy court review... yet, you question the authenticity of the dissolution of the monies given for these trusts, and suspect fraud... where does your skepticism end Newflow?...Lodas
being steadfast and loyal to your beliefs are good qualities, however being in Denial of facts as stated by those that you expect money from is quite another thing...
WMI has made these official statements years ago..... (1) common and preferred equity are cancelled and all rights to former prospectus are null, and void.... (2) classes 19 and 22 are "impaired from future distributions".... (3) Title to all assets belong to WMI, JPM, and FDIC...(4) on pages 95, and 96 of the amended POR 7, WMI states that in all circumstances , pre, or post chapter 11 reorganization that "the estate belongs to WMI" (paraphrased, but you can read the text for yourself}.... WMI makes it quite clear that by signing a release that you received stock in the new company for your claims, and all dividends associated with the preferred stock was supended when they filed chapter 11, and that in no way any assets of WMI, pre , or post chapter 11 closing reverts to shareholders as "owners of the estate"!!!!!!!!!!.....Now, read the POR 7 again, not with your expectations, but what the document says......Lodas
@ AZ Cowboy...... what is your opinion about what WMI said in the amended POR 7 , pages 95, and 96 regarding what was given in exchange for those that signed releases?....do you still believe that the "estate belongs to common equity holders"?..... your opinion is highly valued by many members on the board that read your posts... TIA.....Lodas
This statement is from the amended POR 7, page 95, and 96..... your expected recovery depends on how you read the contents as a legal document, and not what you want it to say.....
41.2 Discharge and Release of Claims and Termination of Equity Interests:
(a) Except as expressly provided in Section 41.6 of the Plan or the Confirmation Order, all distributions and rights afforded under the Plan and the treatment of Claims and Equity Interests under the Plan shall be, and shall be deemed to be, in exchange for, and in complete satisfaction, settlement, discharge and release of, all Claims and any other obligations, suits, judgments, damages, debts, rights, remedies, causes of action or liabilities of any nature whatsoever, and of all Equity Interests, or other rights of a holder of an Equity Interest, relating to any of the Debtors or the Reorganized Debtors or any of their respective assets, property and estates, or interests of any nature whatsoever, including any interest accrued on such Claims from and after the Petition Date, and regardless of whether any property will have been distributed or retained pursuant to the Plan on account of such Claims or other obligations, suits, judgments, damages, debts, rights, remedies, causes of action or liabilities, or Equity Interests or other rights of a holder of an equity security or other ownership interest. Upon the Effective Date, the Debtors and the Reorganized Debtors shall (i) be deemed discharged under section 1141(d)(1)(A) of the Bankruptcy Code and released from any and all Claims and any other obligations, suits, judgments, damages, debts, rights, remedies, causes of action or liabilities, and any Equity Interests or other rights of a holder of an equity security or other ownership interest, of any nature whatsoever, including, without limitation, liabilities that arose before the Effective Date (including prior to the Petition Date), and all debts of the kind specified in sections 502(g), 502(h) or 502(i) of the Bankruptcy Code, whether or not (a) a proof of Claim based upon such debt is filed or deemed filed under section 501 of the Bankruptcy Code, (b) a Claim based upon such debt is allowed under section 502 of the Bankruptcy Code (or is otherwise resolved), or (c) the holder of a Claim based upon such debt voted to accept the Plan and (ii) terminate and cancel all rights of any equity security holder in any of the Debtors and all Equity Interests.
(b) Except as provided in Sections 41.6 and 41.12 of the Plan or the Confirmation Order, all Entities shall be precluded from asserting against any and each of the Debtors and the Reorganized Debtors, and any and each of their respective assets, property and estates, any other or further Claims, or any other obligations, suits, judgments, damages, debts, rights, remedies, causes of action or liabilities of any nature whatsoever, and of all Equity Interests, or other rights of a holder of an Equity Interest, relating to any of the Debtors or the Reorganized Debtors or any of their respective assets, property and estates, including any interest accrued on such Claims from and after the Petition Date, and regardless of whether any property will have been distributed or retained pursuant to the Plan on account of such Claims or other obligations, suits, judgments, damages, debts, rights, remedies, causes of action or liabilities, or Equity Interests or other rights of a holder of an equity security or other ownership interest. In accordance with the foregoing, except as expressly provided in the Plan or the Confirmation Order, the Confirmation Order shall constitute a judicial determination, as of the Effective Date, of the discharge and release of all such Claims or other obligations, suits, judgments, damages, debts, rights, remedies, causes of action or liabilities, and any Equity Interests, or other rights of a holder of an equity interest and termination of all rights of any such holder in any of the Debtors, pursuant to sections 524 and 1141 of the Bankruptcy Code, and such discharge shall
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void and extinguish any judgment obtained against any of the Debtors or the Reorganized Debtors, and their respective assets, property and estates at any time, to the extent such judgment is related to a discharged Claim, debt or liability or terminated right of any holder of any Equity Interest in any of the Debtors. As of the Effective Date, and in consideration for the value provided under the Global Settlement Agreement to effectuate the Plan, each holder of a Claim or Equity Interest in any Class under this Plan shall be and hereby is deemed to release and forever waive and discharge as against each and any of the Debtors and the Reorganized Debtors, and their respective assets, property and estates, all such Claims and Equity Interests.
The contents of this document was extant at the time releases were asked to be signed years ago, but some on this message board refused to read it, and vilified those who were pleading others to read it!!!!!......There is, and never will be additional payouts to any common and preferred equity holders according to the above document signed by all those that negotiated the POR 7 amended document... Lodas
did you read the documents posted in the POR amended 7?????.... I am not the subject of the discussion here. your expectation of money is!!!!!.... the documents say YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS TO ANY VALUES OF THE ESTATE EXPRESSED EITHER PRE, OR POST CHAPTER 11 BANKRUPTCY CLOSURE.... there is no language in this POR that states shareholders own the estate once the chapter 11 closes, or will ever own anything beyond what was given in return for your release signature.... who told you that the estate will revert to you (shareholders)???... were you told this by other people?... WMI certainly did not tell you that the estate belongs to you in the POR 7...
you are not a shareholder with any rights to former assets of WAMU, WMI, WMIH once you signed the release signature... read the release conditions again, the way it reads, not the way you want it to read!!!!....by the way, you are partially correct, shareholders own the remainder of A-L= shareholders retained earnings, but NOT UNTIL THE COMPANY FILES CHAPTER 7!!!!!.... I may remind you, WMI went through a chapter 11 restructuring, and is QUITE LIVE AND WELL, AND IS NOT DECEASED.......why dont you call the BOD of Coop, and ask for your share of the estate of WAMU, or WMI....get back with me when you get an answer.... Lodas
you are interpreting the POR 7 the way you want it to say.... It says ALL ASSETS BELONG TO THE REORGANIZED DEBTOR, JPM, THE FDIC!!!!!!!.....it also goes on to say that you gave up all the values of the former company in exchange for your release, in all values expressed, or not expressed to the court FOREVER, AND THAT THE ESTATE BELONGS TO THE FORMER COMPANY, AND THAT NO FUTURE PAYOUTS ARE COMING AFTER THE CHAPTER 11 CLOSED FROM ANY SOURCES.... DID YOU READ THAT??????.... Lodas
@ DarkB4Dawn and AZ Cowboy.....the following statements are from the POR 7 amended Plan of Reorganization....
41.1 Title to Assets: Except as provided in Confirmation Order, on the Effective Date, title to all assets and properties encompassed by the Plan shall vest in the Reorganized Debtors, Reorganized WMI, the Liquidating Trust, the JPMC Entities or the FDIC Receiver, as the case may be, free and clear of all Liens and in accordance with sections 363 and 1141 of the Bankruptcy Code, and the Confirmation Order shall be a judicial determination of
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discharge of the liabilities of the Debtors and the Debtors in Possession except as provided in the Plan.
41.2 Discharge and Release of Claims and Termination of Equity Interests:
(a) Except as expressly provided in Section 41.6 of the Plan or the Confirmation Order, all distributions and rights afforded under the Plan and the treatment of Claims and Equity Interests under the Plan shall be, and shall be deemed to be, in exchange for, and in complete satisfaction, settlement, discharge and release of, all Claims and any other obligations, suits, judgments, damages, debts, rights, remedies, causes of action or liabilities of any nature whatsoever, and of all Equity Interests, or other rights of a holder of an Equity Interest, relating to any of the Debtors or the Reorganized Debtors or any of their respective assets, property and estates, or interests of any nature whatsoever, including any interest accrued on such Claims from and after the Petition Date, and regardless of whether any property will have been distributed or retained pursuant to the Plan on account of such Claims or other obligations, suits, judgments, damages, debts, rights, remedies, causes of action or liabilities, or Equity Interests or other rights of a holder of an equity security or other ownership interest. Upon the Effective Date, the Debtors and the Reorganized Debtors shall (i) be deemed discharged under section 1141(d)(1)(A) of the Bankruptcy Code and released from any and all Claims and any other obligations, suits, judgments, damages, debts, rights, remedies, causes of action or liabilities, and any Equity Interests or other rights of a holder of an equity security or other ownership interest, of any nature whatsoever, including, without limitation, liabilities that arose before the Effective Date (including prior to the Petition Date), and all debts of the kind specified in sections 502(g), 502(h) or 502(i) of the Bankruptcy Code, whether or not (a) a proof of Claim based upon such debt is filed or deemed filed under section 501 of the Bankruptcy Code, (b) a Claim based upon such debt is allowed under section 502 of the Bankruptcy Code (or is otherwise resolved), or (c) the holder of a Claim based upon such debt voted to accept the Plan and (ii) terminate and cancel all rights of any equity security holder in any of the Debtors and all Equity Interests.
(b) Except as provided in Sections 41.6 and 41.12 of the Plan or the Confirmation Order, all Entities shall be precluded from asserting against any and each of the Debtors and the Reorganized Debtors, and any and each of their respective assets, property and estates, any other or further Claims, or any other obligations, suits, judgments, damages, debts, rights, remedies, causes of action or liabilities of any nature whatsoever, and of all Equity Interests, or other rights of a holder of an Equity Interest, relating to any of the Debtors or the Reorganized Debtors or any of their respective assets, property and estates, including any interest accrued on such Claims from and after the Petition Date, and regardless of whether any property will have been distributed or retained pursuant to the Plan on account of such Claims or other obligations, suits, judgments, damages, debts, rights, remedies, causes of action or liabilities, or Equity Interests or other rights of a holder of an equity security or other ownership interest. In accordance with the foregoing, except as expressly provided in the Plan or the Confirmation Order, the Confirmation Order shall constitute a judicial determination, as of the Effective Date, of the discharge and release of all such Claims or other obligations, suits, judgments, damages, debts, rights, remedies, causes of action or liabilities, and any Equity Interests, or other rights of a holder of an equity interest and termination of all rights of any such holder in any of the Debtors, pursuant to sections 524 and 1141 of the Bankruptcy Code, and such discharge shall
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void and extinguish any judgment obtained against any of the Debtors or the Reorganized Debtors, and their respective assets, property and estates at any time, to the extent such judgment is related to a discharged Claim, debt or liability or terminated right of any holder of any Equity Interest in any of the Debtors. As of the Effective Date, and in consideration for the value provided under the Global Settlement Agreement to effectuate the Plan, each holder of a Claim or Equity Interest in any Class under this Plan shall be and hereby is deemed to release and forever waive and discharge as against each and any of the Debtors and the Reorganized Debtors, and their respective assets, property and estates, all such Claims and Equity Interests.
(c) Except as expressly provided in Sections 41.6 and 41.12 of the Plan or the Confirmation Order, in furtherance of the foregoing, and except for the JPMC Assumed Liabilities, Allowed WMB Vendor Claims, and Allowed WMI Vendor Claims, to the extent provided in the Global Settlement Agreement, none of the JPMC Entities or any of their Related Persons shall have any liability for, and the Debtors, on behalf of themselves, their respective estates and their present Affiliates (other than WMB and its subsidiaries), hereby release the JPMC Entities and each of their Related Persons from liability for, any and all Claims that (i) are or were property of the Debtors, their respective estates, or their present Affiliates (other than WMB and its subsidiaries), and (ii) were or could have been brought in any of the Related Actions.
41.3 Injunction on Claims: Except as otherwise expressly provided in Sections 41.6 and 41.12 of the Plan, the Confirmation Order or such other order of the Bankruptcy Court that may be applicable, all Entities who have held, hold or may hold Claims or any other debt or liability that is discharged or Equity Interests or other right of equity interest that is terminated or cancelled pursuant to the Plan or the Global Settlement Agreement, or who have held, hold or may hold Claims or any other debt or liability that is discharged or released pursuant to Section 41.2 hereof, are permanently enjoined, from and after the Effective Date, from (a) commencing or continuing, directly or indirectly, in any manner, any action or other proceeding (including, without limitation, any judicial, arbitral, administrative or other proceeding) of any kind on any such Claim or other debt or liability that is discharged or Equity Interest that is terminated, cancelled, assumed or transferred pursuant to the Plan against any of the Released Parties or any of their respective assets, property or estates, (b) the enforcement, attachment, collection or recovery by any manner or means of any judgment, award, decree or order against any of the Released Parties or any of their respective assets, property or estates on account of any Claim or other debt or liability that is discharged or Equity Interest that is terminated, cancelled, assumed or transferred pursuant to the Plan, (c) creating, perfecting, or enforcing any encumbrance of any kind against any of the Released Parties or any of their respective assets, property or estates on account of any Claim or other debt or liability that is discharged or Equity Interest that is terminated, cancelled, assumed or transferred pursuant to the Plan, and (d) except to the extent provided, permitted or preserved by sections 553, 555, 556, 559 or 560 of the Bankruptcy Code or pursuant to the common law right of recoupment, asserting any right of setoff, subrogation or recoupment of any kind against any obligation due from any of the Released Parties or any of their respective assets, property or estates, with respect to any such Claim or other debt or liability that is discharged or Equity Interest that is terminated, cancelled, assumed or transferred pursuant to the Plan; provided, however, that such injunction shall not preclude the United States of America, any state or any of their respective police or regulatory agencies from enforcing their police or regulatory powers; and, provided,
read carefully, your expected returns depend upon the language in this official document.... read especially the terms by which you tendered your release signature, and what you released and got in return... this statement of Title to all assets refers to ALL ASSETS of WMI declared in the chapter 11 , or not declared, and makes no distinction between pre, and post chapter 11 assets.... IT MEANS ALL ASSETS OF WMI... LODAS
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@AZCowboy......in your opinion, what does this mean as stated by WMI?..... "Title to all assets belong to the reorganized Debtor, JPM, and the FDIC?.....I posted the link to this official statement many times from the 2013 WMIH 10-K......could it mean that when equity holders signed releases for the chapter 11 reorganization, that the beneficial ownership in any previous values in assets, trusts, whatever ,was negated when common and preferred shares were cancelled and extinguished, and 'ALL RIGHTS THEREUNDER PREVIOUS PROSPECTUS ARE NULL AND VOID????????.... said another way..... when you signed a release , you signed away your rights to any previous values in the old company, in exchange for shares (values) in the New company?.... your thoughts, without question marks, hyphens, dots......Lodas
@b3.....WMI stated that common equity, and preferred stock were CANCELLED, EXTINGUISHED, AND ALL RIGHTS TO THE PROSPECTUS IS NULL AND VOID.......it also states that "Title to all assets belong to WMIH, JPM, and the FDIC.........question: if WMI gets signed releases which allows them to cancel the stock, and the prior values inherent in the previous ownership as beneficiaries, does that NOT ALSO CANCEL THE BENEFICIARY OWNERSHIP OF COMMON AND PREFERRED HOLDERS OF THOSE ASSETS?????.....said another way:.... by signing a release, one signs his beneficiary rights to previous ownership of assets that were rightfully his....IMO, this is why WMI states that "all title to (previous) assets belong to WMI, JPM, and the FDIC....as you stated, chapter11 is a very complex legal procedure , and requires RELEASE SIGNATURES by the shareholders that own the company, and creditors who possess claims against any earnings...having said that, the FDIC is now holding a 14 billion dollar loss on the balance sheet which has first priority to any remaining assets generated by these Trusts...however, the FDIC has said, that they do not foresee any relief for common and preferred equity...WMI has said the same when they declared the equity classes 19, and 22 as being "impaired" from future recovery...... thank you for your post.... Lodas
@johniconfer.........WADR, what, or how were you instilled with the idea that "we are beneficiaries of the Trusts"?......do you possess documents that profess your assertion, or did others instill you with this idea from their opinions?.....the WMIH 2013 10-K, an official document submitted to the SEC, by independent auditors doing a forensic Fresh Start accounting of the residual assets of WMI post chapter 11 closing states the following..... " Title to all assets belong to the reorganized Debtor (WMIH), JPM, and the FDIC"....did you read this document?, and if you did, are you in conformance with what WMIH says, and if you disagree, by what reasons do you disagree?....as you are aware, WMI filed a chapter 11 restructuring to pay creditors and exit from chapter 11 to restructure the company... in what way does the assets of the former company flow to former shareholders when the company merely restructures itself, and continues without dissolution.? have you seen this so called SEC allowed Preferred managing
Sub that AZ Cowboy says exists, and whose name is on the beneficiary, or are you just assuming this because AZ Cowboy told you.... your response will be greatly appreciated... Lodas
AZCowboy?.....all of your posts end with the disclaimer IMO (in my opinion)... what is your opinion when WMI stated in an official chapter 11 closing document, signed by the judge, that says , "all common and preferred shares were cancelled and extinguished, and all previous rights unto the prospectus is deemed "null and void"....your opinion is highly valued by some message board members....Lodas
the kool-aid has really been spiked this morning as the so called "gurus" add the secret sauce to keep the lemmings in euphoria that WMI, WMIH, xxxx will "soon" shower them with untold riches....as always, the next days "hangover" will be a doozy, and expectedly, the next party will be in the planning...the next party is the LIBOR settlement, due "soon"....the problem is WAMU's name is not on the invitation, but the FDIC's name is ...get the "buckets" out guys to hold all that cash that will be falling from the sky, and dont forget to rent a U-haul to carry it all away!!!!!...sadly I had 390,000 UQ that were released years ago that were cancelled and extinguished by WMI, who is supposed to give this party, so I wont be invited...but for the rest of you, enjoy, celebrate your victory, and above all, try that new decoction of kool-aid...you will become ecstatic....Lodas
running off at the mouth as usual!!!!.... what courts , banks, governments, and FDIC is corrupt?....WAMU failed because Kerry Killinger and the BOD ran it in the dirt with billions in Loans, and HELOCS, who were not qualified to get loans from banks, so WAMU engaged in creating SUB -PRIME LOANS to unqualified lenders....blaming everyone but yourself is cowardly....you are to blame for your losses because you did not bother to read any documents, but listened to AZCowboy, L.G. and others who have failed to deliver on their promises that money is coming back... you are not entitled to jack s***t because your equity values were cancelled, along with the preferreds.... Lodas
WMIIC
WMIIC does not currently have any assets or operations and is fully eliminated upon consolidation. Prior to September 26, 2008, WMIIC held a variety of securities and investments; however, such securities and investments were liquidated and the value thereof distributed in connection with implementing the Plan.
Competition
Upon emergence from bankruptcy on the Effective Date, we had no operations other than WMMRC’s legacy reinsurance business with respect to mortgage insurance which is being operated in runoff mode and we have not written any new business since September 26, 2008. Because WMMRC’s business is in runoff mode, we currently have no competitors in that line of business. However, because we are pursuing an acquisition strategy and competition for acquisitions generally has increased, we will compete for acquisition opportunities and some of those potential competitors for such opportunities are substantially larger and have considerably greater financial, technical, and marketing resources than we do.
Government Regulation
We are subject to the regulations of the Securities and Exchange Commission (“SEC”) and the Insurance Commissioner of the State of Hawaii. We are also subject to the accounting rules and regulations of the SEC and the Financial Accounting Standards Board. Any of these laws or regulations may be modified or changed from time to time, and there is no assurance that such modifications or changes will not adversely affect us.
Compliance with laws, regulations and standards relating to corporate governance and public disclosure, including the Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002, and new regulations enacted by the SEC, are resulting in increased compliance costs. In addition, during the bankruptcy, WMI adopted so-called “Modified Exchange Act Reporting” under the SEC Staff’s Legal Bulletin No. 2 (“SLB 2”). Upon emergence from bankruptcy, WMIHC continues to rely upon the guidance set forth in SLB 2 and we have filed and will continue to file the Exchange Act periodic reports for all periods that begin after the Effective Date of the Plan. Compliance with different or evolving standards will result in increased general and administrative expenses and may cause a diversion of our time and attention from revenue-generating activities to compliance activities and could subject WMIHC to sanctions or investigation by regulatory authorities.
so, AZC.... are you saying that WMIH is reporting outside the SEC requirements, when this link to the WMIH 10-K says otherwise?......this link is from the 2013 SEC 10-K filing by WMIH.... look it up......
so far, after 15 years, no one expecting a return from the chapter 11 or assets held by WMI, now WMIH has produced ONE OFFICIAL WORD FROM ANY AGENCY CONNECTED TO THIS AFFAIR that WMI, WMIH, FDIC, JPM will return money for escrows, preferred stock, common stock.......period.... it is all speculation, gut feelings, dot connecting, common sense, and wishful thinking and hope...., and worst of all drinking kool-aid mixed by the great gurus AZC, Boris, ron, LG, BBAN, xoom.goodie, milkduds, bizreader, and some others.....the theory is that WMI cancelled the common and preferred as necessary to close the chapter 11, but somehow these assets will return post chapter 11 to holders of escrows, or because former shareholders "own the estate".... if this is your belief, then to be credible, you must prove your assertions by documents !!!!!..... where are these documents?... failure to produce evidence proving your assertions is just "hog wash".... so lets start with the big cheese, AZCowboy:.... where are the documents that say there is a preferred managing sub, when WMI stated officially that all common, and preferred shares were cancelled and extinguished?....where is the documents of this docket that any lawsuit will be, or has been adjudicated into law that WMI will go to court to retrieve assets taken from them illegally, when the 2013 10-K states there are no on going court cases??..where does it say WMIH has to issue post chapter 11 shares to make former shareholders "whole again"?....where is your proof that CWG e-mail from Doreen Logan was bogus?....what is your opinion about the statement that WMIH made that "all TITLE TO ASSETS BELONG TO WMIH, FDIC, AND JPM?.... what is your opinion when WMI stated classes 19, and 22 are "IMPAIRED FROM FURTHER RECOVERY"?....is it your contention that WMI is still extant behind some SEC allowed reporting scheme to hide unreported assets from shareholders by using XXXX, and the SEC is allowing this?... where are the documents that stipulate this assertion?....dont answer my post with ascerbic remarks, but with documents to the ABOVE ASSERTIONS THAT YOU HAVE CONTINUALLY MADE OVER THE YEARS...............Lodas
this post is bull sh*t, and is full up to your boots..... read the WMIH 2013 10-K..... WMIH states on record to the SEC, by independent auditors, 1 year after the chapter 11 closed that..... "wmih presently has no court cases to retrieve former assets". !!!!!!!... that was 11years ago, and WMI, now WMIH has not filed any lawsuits in connection to retrieve any assets taken from them.... the GSA allowed WMI 6.5 billion dollars , plus 5.98 billion in NOLS for abandonment of their assets taken by the FDIC, and all cross claims against each other were given releases for their claims.... JPM got 600 million for MBS soured put back loans, WMI got 6.5 billion to abandon the equity stock in WAMU, plus the NOLS in exchange for the abandonment of its 20.7 billion in shareholders retained earnings...WMI tried to sue the FDIC for illegal confiscation of assets, but the case was denied because WMI could not substantiate certain claims that were made... The case before judge collyer was stayed, pending the outcome of the results of the GSA hearings.. no ruling on the case was ever made when the GSA agreement was ratified...you are not a shareholder in WAMU, with no rights to any assets of WMIH.... it says in the chapter 11 closing that , "Title to all assets belong to WMIH, FDIC, and JPM..." in closing my post, I note that many of your statements have question marks, hyphens, etc., as if you are unsure of your statements... post a link to this so called preferred managing sub, when WMI stated that common equity and preferred shares were "cancelled, extinguished, and all rights to the prospectus is null and void....are you suggesting that WMI was lying when they made that official statement?. and that these instruments are still, or will continue to be paid out?....by what mechanism can WMI cancel these equity instruments, and still pay them on another venue?....your posts are bogus , and filled with hype, and innuendo made to taste good to the kool-aid drinkers, but without links, they are hearsay... Lodas
why would WAMU be awarded any money from LIBOR settlements, if any.... WAMU does not exist anymore, and at the time they were making money off elevated interest premiums on loans they wrote, and sold to other agencies to make MBS....the FDIC lost money by over insuring liabilities on banks balance sheets with out collecting higher premiums they charge banks for protecting depositors savings....WAMU, and WMI was not in the business of making credit default swaps, and all the rest of those exotic derivative contracts....any money from LIBOR settlements will be kept by the FDIC....the ones that were harmed were the borrowers who made higher payments on loans, which were inflated with bogus interest rates.... ....Lodas
yo ron?......WAMU and Lehman do not exist anymore....!!!.......whatever happened in 2008 does not mean they will be paid back for losses sustained in dealing with counter parties... AIG was bailed out by TARP, and most banks losses in writing these instruments was absorbed by the Federal Government to clean up their books so that they could start lending again.....by the way, you stated in the WMI Feb MOR that the balance sheet shows a 20.7 billion dollar shareholders retained earnings...you are lying, by stating a false fact.... the entry shows a (20.7 billion dollar loss) in shareholders Retained earnings.... can you explain why WMI was given some 5.89 billions in NOLS as part of the GSA agreement?... why would the IRS give a bankrupt company , filing a chapter 11 reorganization a NOL Tax credit for possible future earnings when they emerge from chapter 11?.....could it be that WMI abandoned the 20.7 billion in RE for the 5.89 billion in NOLS?....yea, keep me on ignore so that you dont have to answer.... also, by the way, I am still waiting for the link to the 309 billion dollar RICO award to WMI in that well documented D.C. duel track court case....did you forget, ?.... I didn't..... Lodas
coop is 79.08 dollars per share in after hours trading as shown on TD America...... wowzzza!!!!!! Lodas
common and preferred shares were cancelled and extinguished, and all rights unto the prospectus are null and void!!!!!!.... didn't you read that when you signed your release, or did you rely on AZC, and ron, and boris to get your information?....the money train derailed 12 years ago while you were drinking koolaid.....Lodas
banks were not harmed by LIBOR manipulation... the FDIC was harmed by over insuring the banks liabilities that were inflated by the banks who were collecting more interest on loans, without compensating the FDIC with the premiums that they pay to insure their liabilities.... you wont get a dime from settlements... besides WAMU does not exist anymore... it was placed in receivership 15 years ago....Lodas
AZCowboy..... you said everything now is coming to a head................what is coming to a head, and when?....... spell it out in documents, statements, or links to any information that you possess.....the reorganized company said that your common equity, and preferred values in WAMU, and WMI cancelled by official statements, and signed by the court judge, and releases given to all parties involved with this affair.......Lodas
This post is a total croc of Sh*t, and displays a total misunderstanding of the differences in settlements of chapter 11, an chapter 7 bankruptcy filings...
(1) chapter 11 is a company restructuring of assets whereby the Creditors are paid values for their holdings according to agreements between creditor, and debtor, and signed by the court...any assets remaining BELONG TO THE EMERGENT COMPANY TO CARRY ON THE BUSINESS, AND TITLE TO ASSETS BELONG TO THE COMPANY, NOT SHAREHOLDERS!!!!!!!!!!
(2) a chapter 7 is a LIQUIDATION OF COMPANY ASSETS, WHEREBY CREDITORS ARE PAID WITH EXISTING ASSETS FIRST, THEN IF THERE ARE ASSETS REMAINING, THEY ARE GIVEN TO SHAREHOLDERS......... the company then ceases to exist!!!!!!!!
WMI was a chapter 11, the creditors were paid, existing shareholders given stock in a new company, and ALL TITLE TO ASSETS BELONG TO THE DEBTOR.......you are not a shareholder in old WAMU, or WMI assets, as they were cancelled , extinguished, and all rights unto previous prospectus are null and void.... what you are is a shareholder in the new company called WMIH, which were given to you, in exchange for your release signature.... YOU POSSESS NO RIGHTS TO FORMER ASSETS OF WAMU, OR WMI.....and stop laughing until these facts are understood....Lodas
Wmih in the 2013 10-K makes the statement, by independent auditors, under penalty of perjury, that WMIH, as successor to WMI has NO OFF BALANCE SHEET ASSETS, AND IS NOT CURRENTLY ENGAGE IN ANY COURT ACTION TO RETRIEVE PAST ASSETS!!!!!!!.....they also go on to state that TITLE TO ALL ASSETS BELONG TO WMIH, FDIC, AND JPM, AS PART OF THE GSA AGREEMENT!!!!!!!......you are by inference stating that WMI has hidden assets from shareholders who legally own them.... this assumption is in direct contradiction to the above statements made by WMIH to the SEC.....now, if you believe that Rosen was lying when he said WMI has no safe harbor assets, and that they were all sold off, the where are these assets you seek?......the 2013 10-K was a forensic fresh start accounting of all residual assets , and cash, as well asTrust money held by WMMRC.....there is no mention of assets held outside the chapter 11... in fact, WMIH states that both reportable, and non reportable assets were disclosed to the bankruptcy court in connection to the chapter 11 settlement and inclusion of old equity holders....are you suggesting that WMI eliminated the "money trail" to sequestered assets from shareholders of the old estate?....that would be fraud on the IRS, SEC, and auditors who compile WMI's books...there has been legions of lawyers, and accountants present in the courtroom when the chapter 11 process was on going, and not one raised the fact that WMI was hiding assets... you are the only one pressing this argument... why?... do you have evidence of a fraud committed?...in closing my post, I ask you where is this money you want returned to you when, WMI, and Wmih says there is none , and there never was none to begin with...Rosen was the lawyer, the judge presided, Susman and Willingham never raised the question of fraud... why are you suggesting fraud?....Lodas
The manipulation of LIBOR interest rates was not the cause of WAMU to fail...as a matter of interest, WAMU benefited by the bogus rates by getting more interest on loans , and MBS they sold to be packaged and sold to Freddie and Fannie than what the true value backing the loans were worth...how?....the FDIC backs the Liabilities of the banks that they insure, NOT THE ASSETS!!!!!....banks pay the FDIC premiums to insure the liability on their books to protect savers in case of failure, so that depositors do not lose money...if the liabilities of the banks were INFLATED BY BOGUS INTEREST RATES, THE LIABILITIES WERE OVERINSURED BY THE FDIC which did not get the added premiums from this overinsurance....this is why the FDIC instituted a lawsuit against those that set the LIBOR rates, and not the banks... the FDIC are the plaintifs in the lawsuit in the name of the banks.... my point?...the FDIC will keep any rewards from the lawsuit, and the banks, WAMU included, will get nada....Lodas