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I know that before they changed to Electronic checks JPM used to write my PAPER CHECK.
The duration of settling this fiasco has had me suspicious for a long time.
How Big was WAMU? calculate 9 years and they are still not done with it.
Thanks appreciate you taking the time. Yes we will see.
Denny
Just like all here I no idea of how they would calculate the pay out matrix, it would be almost any number they choose.
I have suggested they could do the exact 180 degree opposite of what they did the last go around and they could do something different s well.
But sorry I can't tell ya as I have no idea how it could all shake out in the end and like I said they could also do the exact same or opposite with the PREFFERDS or they could give prefferds commons , guess we wait and see
correct
I do not see the money outside the LT and do not think it is there
As always - I wish all of us who got screwed a happy ending and hope I am wrong and that there is money that will flow to WMIH or to the escrows that become LT interests or ...
Question
What is the value of WMMRC as owned by WMIH after 5 years of their runoff paper ---- running off?
50 million that comes to WMIH?
Not yet, but a lot are headed there.
I agree WMIH already owns it
I thought - going back to the POR - that this company held some "old paper" that was "running off" with incoming cash flow of interest and principal
Such run off paper - held by WMIH via WMM.. was the collateral behind the jr and sr paper issued by WMIH per the POR (that later got used as payment to the WMI LT and out to PIERS holders)
Good to see my junior paper is redeemed in full and with all 13% (as was the senior paper years ago)
There is some value left to that paper - but how much can it be ?
(I think it started at 200 million and much has "matured or been pre paid" and the cash used to buy back the loans WMIH issued)
I own escrow and WMIH and I assume WMIH gets this money
I assume it is < 50 million
The point wasn't only that they could write the SS check but the underlying point IS and WAS THEY ARE DA BOYZ(US GOV) BANK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Had they failed we would have as well on that you can count and so would the rest of the world! LIKE it or not WE are the face of the world financially, we fail it all goes POOF
They has no choice but to use us WAMU to prop JPMC
all of this is crying over spilt milk, all we want are our glasses filled back up!!!!!!!!!
BB. Just wondering say if new shares are offered would it be from the amount of escrow markers one holds? Say a forward split happened 3/1 and you held 10,000 common escrow would you end up with 30,000?
BBAN, I agree that JPM failure would have been a BAD thing. They are a very shady operation(criminal imo) with HUGE derivative exposure.
I'm just saying, ANY bank can be used to issue SS checks.
So, that is NOT why they were saved.
"""We see such assets of LT and they are not Billions - maybe 50 million net for equity """"
Again and as always you as other here do are being VERY SPECIFIC and the assets of which you speak that are currently in the LT are from the WMI BK CASE, but won't and are not not addressing any assets held OUTSIDE THE WMI BK CASE and never will, either on purpose of confusion.........WMI goes with from 0-2.7b MAXXXXXXXXXXXXX.
Our interests are in what was OUTSIDE OF THE WMI BK CASE, not what was in it, now we'll be glad to take that as well, but the MONEY AINT IN WMI BK CASE, it's outside of it in our/my opinion
WMMRC is a sub of WMIH and is owned by WMIH of course, and if they sell it the money goes to WMIH, not to the WMILT/escrows.
If WMIH has a taxable gain when they sell WMMRC,they can use the NOLs to pay no taxes for this gain.
I thought WMIH already owned this company (and it was the collateral to the senior and junior notes issued in an amount thought at the time to be the NPV of future incoming cash payments)
1. Does not WMIH own this already?
2. If it started with say a 200 million value - what might that value be today
How does anyone get to one billion for a RUNOFF company that has not issued any paper or done any new business in 5 years ?
I assume WMMRC only has as assets notes that are running off - the run off notes
Is there anything else?
And why sell v sit and collect the incoming cash flow?
Any sale of future cash flow will bring less than 100% of the expected total inflow
and finally - my impression from WAY WAY WAY WAY back is the total value of the runoff notes is less than 200 Million ?
GOODIE if you aren't aware of what the MAGNITUDE of a FAILURE of JPM would have done to the world financial community/condition, there really is no hope for you and kind of put ya ways out of your league discussing it.
Had they gone under if you're employed my guess would be you wouldn't have been after their collapse and even if you had a million $$$$$$ in the bank you would have been penny less, there would have been runs on every bank in the WORLD in a flash
Your point?
We see such assets of LT and they are not Billions - maybe 50 million net for equity
?
"JPM writes SS checks so Govt. could not let them fail."
Anybody could write those SS checks. It's not like it is JPM's money.
"""""However, it is how this case is played and closed such as during the final POR 7 signed on 2/23/2012 that issued Escrow Markers to those that signed timely releases by the deadline as well they were issued NewCo/WMIH stock that make the difference.""""
LG it just struck me, this may VERY well be the reason we were issued markes in teh first place....
They knew thsi had to go down impaired but they also KNEW the owed all that was left over and had to make that right and possibly some compensation on top for the illegal aspects of it, AND they could not do any of that in the case or it would open a litigation morass as some call it ,so we got markers and will only be paid AFTER THE BK CLOSE COMPLETELY, thus the HISTORICAL LOOK of a legit seizure
Please explain
Is this run off income ?
Is this pre paid principal ?
???
Yes but the FDIC saved JPM's bacon, as they were going under from derivative plays, JPM writes SS checks so Govt. could not let them fail.
IMO just as GUILTY as anyone else!
What did the raise the over 700 BILLION for??
Botchberg's was a stick in the eye for equity......There was not one thing good that came of it and equity was ready to sue him for the crappy analysis he did but was protected by the judge and collected his money and left......
Az, If they sell WMMRC and that goes to escrows. What benefit except the 2.5% coming back to wmih would the new company have?
~ The Plan To Sell WMMRC, ~
Was part of the original Plan 6’ submission ... I don’t think that future consideration changed with the transition from the failed Plan 6, ... to the approved Plan 7’
AZ
look again 5/10 of a penny
here is something pocket jokers might be interested in
https://www.thenation.com/article/how-americas-biggest-bank-paid-its-fine-for-the-2008-mortgage-crisis-with-phony-mortgages/
No doubt, ready to move on any day.There is one thing that WMIH has to do in my view and cannot wait PAST Halloween 2017 and that is at least an update on the funding. Replacement, shutdown of WMIH or a QA.
They have to at least provide an 8K filing showing what they are going to do with this publicly traded company WMIH-Corp.
~ LG, I Doubt That WMIH Wants Any Of This ~
WMMRC' was simply a necessary part of the original process' consideration' ... WMMRC was kept functioning, due to the fact that there were concerning Loans' that had not been packaged into an ABS-Cert` at the time of the seizure' ...
... Loans that required PMI Insurance are usually crap to begin with' ... But, JPMC got to service the whole WaMu load' ...
The Original WMI remaining PMI Insurers within WMMRC, (4 of 7 now remain) needed to be kept active upon the 09/2008 seizure, while JPMC continued to service the loans that originally needed PMI' Insurance' ...
... NOPE' ... WMIH-Corp, paying anything for WMMRC would be a stupid forward moving financial decision' ... If I were to take a stab at this ? ... I would say that JPMC got this load of WMMRC crap, along with WMB' the bank' ... and JPMC paid' for whatever is remaining in there' ...
heck, the original insurance securitization bond, which has been held in HI' the whole time, is worth more than WMMRC at this point in time anyway' ...
heck, WMIH-Corp, ending up getting a couple of bucks for WMMRC plus the return of the original WMI bond' ... ? ... and' ... Turn The Page on that'
AZ
to who and for how much? hope, not just a lousy buck.
If you buy it then close at $1.00
always tomorrow never today?
Face it, the 6.5 million shorts will be toast if they don't cover before positive M&A news come out. The announcement of a definitive agreement for a qualified acquisition would render the shorties bankrupt if they did not cover before...
AZC, you said "The plan to sell off WMMRC' is just exactly what was originally submitted to the Court, in the Plan 6' and its design' submission' "
***Now for a platform...DOES WMIH-CORP buy this from the former estate which is now owned by those who signed timely releases by 2/2012 for say around one billion to one point five billion then start up the reinsurance division again along with banking***???
YOU have to OWN to be able to DUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHERE do you get the we, could count the shorts on this board on ONE HAND.
SEC will soon close this SCAM down
~ LP' Yes Or A Pre-Determined Decimal Residual ~
The plan to sell off WMMRC' is just exactly what was originally submitted to the Court, in the Plan 6' and its design' submission' ...
So, Now that the P&A Agreement has been completed (per the FDIC site), between the FDIC & JPMC, ... and the transition of WMB has now been completed ... ? ... WMMRC in "Run-Off" (mode) is NO LONGER NEEDED' ...
Now, As well as the associated WMMRC "Debt" which needed to be paid off First' ... again, as was announced as completed, last Friday 09/29/2017'
In My Own Opinion ?, This is all good, very, very, good' ...
... We' ... should ALL know quite soon now'
AZ
Hotchberg's statement regarding WMB's loan file.
Delaware BK System-Large Cases-Kmart Now WaMu
Hotchberg's statement regarding WMB's loan file.
"39 Equity undertook a preliminary solvency analysis based on the limited information made available by the Debtors. Equity noted that a final analysis of solvency would require a detailed review of WMB’s loan portfolio, which is not available to Equity and was also not reviewed by the Debtors. The Examiner in this Report has an analysis of solvency, but he also did not conduct a review of the loan portfolio."
_______________________________________
*The Holy Grail*RETAINED ASSETS*YOUR HONOR*They Will Still Be There
The legal group Akin and Gump are discussing the scope of what the Examiner can examine and what he cannot examine.
We also have in there the part (b) of what is to be retained, and that is because in
negotiations that we had with all of the settling parties, with the equity committee
last week, with the FDIC, we did talk a great deal about the concept of the retained
assets. Now, it's my position, Your Honor, that the examiner doesn't need to know
much with the retained assets other than say the assets are retained and therefore
the liquidating trust can go ahead and pursue them. They will still be there; they
can be carried through. But I understand that the equity committee is very
interested in having a neutral third party do an investigation of those retained
assets.
________________________________________
WaMu Bankruptcy Case VERY Similar in Principle to Kmart
Many of us have understood one could not have large style money coming back during an active bankruptcy case as this would be totally illegal and cause gargantuan lawsuits by the truckloads.
However, it is how this case is played and closed such as during the final POR 7 signed on 2/23/2012 that issued Escrow Markers to those that signed timely releases by the deadline as well they were issued NewCo/WMIH stock that make the difference.
We will see the bankruptcy closed out with minimal monies IF ANY monies coming back and it could be that Piers final payment MAY NOT be made and leave Piers impaired. So therefore, no LTIs issued however, those who have the Escrow Markers will see the LARGE STYLE monies once the bankruptcy case is closed in my view.
This is similar to how Kmart worked even though all of their share-owners were zeroed out. Kmart did not show their real estate value until the NewCo issued shares and moved forward, their case closed and then the value of the former real estate was valued in each following quarters moving forward. This propelled NewCo Kmart stock up from $25.00 to $171.00 a share over the ensuing 18-24 months.
In principle, the same will happen here when the Safe-Harbor assets are reunited with Escrow Shareholders. This is my view of how this proceeds.
The aforementioned is why I love my Escrow Shares so much that continues to grow immensely every single day forward!
No way will this be a 1.00 at close that's when we all.dump
AZ, watch the price end at $1.00 today. I think you are right. I have a feeling about merger on monday.
***CBA09***Thank you for one of the most simple and common sense posts ever***
***I WILL REPOST CBA09s post so this soaks in***
Shrew professional investors here. Those initial & ensuing Hedge Funds did not invest and release on guess work. Rather a keen understanding of what assets and rights to assets that will prevail beyond the reaching powers of bankruptcy.
It seems many here are down to a glimmer of hope, from once having high hopes. I have been primarily silent. Why!?! No need to focus on the daily PPS. It is of no concern to me.
Do you believe these Hedge Funds & Institutional Investors are concerned with the the daily PPS? Of course not, they are inured to its daily movement and the postings on this Board.
Those who have their ticket punched, namely releases, take note that you are joined in the company of those in the know. Knowing the "Final Outcome."
Key here, I strongly contend, is outside the waterfall. So those assets shielded from the Trustee's reach as follows:
1) SPE / Trusts assets ( The parent is WMI )
2) Abandonment of Stock. ( As any future value goes to WMI and not included as an asset of the estate).
***NOW FOR ONE QUESTION***
Now you know why...BUT...Have I told you lately how much more I love my Escrow Shares that continues to grow immensely with every single day going forward?
Pocket9s' - JPMC is a much larger criminal enterprise
"THEY HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO SEIZE US NOW THEY MUST PAY US FOR IT"
There was/is a choice, DON'T USE A CRIMINAL BANK as the 'US BANK'.
~ IMO, WMMRC Is Being Sold Off ~
IMO, ... The WMIH-Corp(s) PPS is being purposely held at the March 2012, exit into reorganization $1.00 level ...
The remaining WMMRC, debt was paid off last Friday the 29th of Sept
WMIH-Corp,(s) move forward will be the ... Tell’ ...
AZ
No. Read this, especially the last paragraph on page 1:
http://www.kccllc.net/documents/8817600/8817600170531000000000001.pdf
DA BOYZ are doing a good job keeping this below the $ threshold and quietly accumulating shares.
Many will not hand too long if this stays under a $ and this is exactly imho what they want and are attempting to do, and as it gets closer still to the 30 day mark it may go even lower still ,but IMHO this will turn on a dime when it does...............IMHO only
This has been said before , but I think it needs to be said again....
The seizure of WAMU to float JPM's boat and in turn the """WORLD FINANCIAL SYSTEM""" had to take place as it did period!!!!!!!
Yes it has caused great pain an a huge financial lose to those involved directly like employees or investors like us.
But on the flip side of that coin THE WORLD WOULD STILL BE IN HAVOC had this not taken place the way it did........Unemployment would be unreal homes would be empty all over the place from foreclosures, ritos in the streets and this list could go on for pages!!!!!!!!
Now in the same breath I think it was agreed upon (MY WAG) that all involved knew this and that the GOV via the FDIC have HAVE HAVE agreed to in the end make this right for the TAKING of the bank and the 5th and fraudulent conveyances both of which I said up front within days of this seizure would be involved............
If you do not believe there ws some SIDE AGREEMENTS HERE then answer WHY we have a filed JURY trial demand, TOLLING agreements and HAVE NOT RELEASED the FDIC in any way from or fashion?????????
CAN YOU SAY THE "HAMMER OVER THEIR HEAD TO PERFORM AS AGREED TOO"
And since the true loss here was the VALUE of the WMB @ 24 bill imho the fdic agreed to either pay RICO value 3X's for those issues they broke the law on or very very close.
In short if this goes down as I suspect any here that were here in the last years of WAMU and not in it when it was 47$ but in the last 2 or three years, will probably make out as good or better.......
NOW all that came here POST imho and that hold POST shares in the pennies are gonna make OUT LIKE BANDITSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
I have seen as other have docs that show as much as 58 bill directly credited under WMI name in different investment vehicles prior to the seizure, then throw in FDIC's penalty and we be good
ALL in my rose colored glassed cliff notes version
THEY HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO SEIZE US NOW THEY MUST PAY US FOR IT
Glasses need changing?? look to right & up 2 & 1/2 cents==NICE TRY!
MAKE that 3 cents now!!
Average volume 336K & already passed that.
Sir we are currently up 2 pennies
BS if something is coming, wouldn't be up and down one tenth of a penny
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Moderators Large Green xoom GO4AWILDRIDE stoxjock ron_66271 |
Mr. Cooper Group Inc. (NASDAQ: COOP) provides quality servicing, origination and transaction-based services related principally to single-family residences throughout the United States with operations under its primary brands: Mr. Cooper® and Xome®. Mr. Cooper is one of the largest home loan servicers in the country focused on delivering a variety of servicing and lending products, services and technologies. Xome provides technology and data enhanced solutions to homebuyers, home sellers, real estate agents and mortgage companies.
Upon completion of the merger between WMIH Corp. and Nationstar Mortgage Holdings Inc. on July 31, 2018, WMIH became the parent company of the Nationstar Mortgage Holdings Inc. family including Mr. Cooper (Nationstar Mortgage LLC, d/b/a Mr. Cooper), Xome and Champion Mortgage (Nationstar Mortgage LLC d/b/a Champion).
As of October 10, 2018, Mr. Cooper Group Inc. is the new name of WMIH Corp. On July 31, 2018, WMIH, now Mr. Cooper Group, became the parent company of the Nationstar Mortgage Holdings Inc. family including Mr. Cooper (Nationstar Mortgage LLC, d/b/a Mr. Cooper) and Xome.
As early as late 2006, WaMu would begin to become a victim of what would eventually become the worst recession in US history since the Great Depression of 1929. WaMu's aggressive business strategy would begin to unfold throughout the end of 2006 and become increasingly disastrous through 2007. As housing rates were at all time highs before the recession began, WaMu would use its considerable leverage and assets to make large amounts of loans in both subprime mortgages and subprime credit cards. The banking division of WaMu at one point before the end of 2007 had nearly 336 stand-alone branch buildings where various types of home loans were processed and approved. WaMu would eventually over leverage themselves due to the high number of Adjustable Rate Mortgages (ARMs). As the US economy slowed down, the number of home loan defaults began to rise in quick succession. This coupled with the falling home prices throughout most of the US meant that even with foreclosures and the properties back in the hands of the company, they were unable to sell them back into the market, or were not able to derive enough revenue from the sale to cover the loan that was made on them. In the mean time, the credit card division was also seeing a surge in the number of late and non payments being made.
By September of 2008, WaMu's stock price had fallen to $2 from its previous highs of around $50 just two years earlier. Amid strong voices from the shareholders, then company CEO Kerry Killinger was dismissed by the company board. In the meantime, the company went looking for a buyer for part of its banking division. WaMu had been unsuccessful in finding an appropriate buy until its seizure by the FDIC. Overnight the companies banking division was bought by JP Morgan Chase in a secret deal brokered by the FDIC for 1.9 billion dollars. Washington Mutual Inc. has reorganized to Washington Mutual Holding Inc. WITH SHAREHOLDERS INTACT
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