Mr Cooper Group Inc (COOP)

[Roach58]

WMIH Files 8K - Termination Of Definitive Agreement >WMIH
Just copied and pasted this from TDA...haven't read it yet.
This isn't a link just the headline and the timeline hasn't happened yet. 8:30pm tonight

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/933136/000119312517305937/d470625d8k.htm

[gg4]

:) Talk next happy hour all the best. GG4

[Large Green]

Jest, all you need to know for now, is yes it will happen relative to when WMIH files their 8K moving forward.

[gg4]

Thank you LG for letting me know about happy hour and Bob for reminding me. Thanks again both of you. Thank you both for the information over the years, a couple of very smart guys, along with a few others. Glta

[REALtime64]

All escrows will be paid right away when this company is done fore it's the only way it can happen now

[Jestiron]

Alright...to anyone who knows the answer....

Exactly HOW and WHEN will Safe Harbor assets get relinquished? Are there examples of this from other BKs which we can refer? How does the timing work? Before BK close or after? Ramifications of timing?

I know this has been posted before, but WHAT document actually STATES that LT is the ONLY owner of S/H assets? Is there ANY scenario where these would not/could not come back to LT.

NOTE: I am NOT NOT talking about how many assets are here.

In a scenario where the waterfall DOESN'T make it all the way to Class 19 & 22, would this affect ownership? Piers? My understanding is that this is not possible as this is the sole PURPOSE of Safe Harbor protection, but I want to make sure.

Sorry for all of the questions, but I have been listening for a while to see if I could understand from the board a better way to ask these questions.

PLEASE do not answer if you THINK you know....I need consensus on the answers....I think we all do.

Jest

[clawmann]

Any idea as to timing? Are we looking at sometime before or after the end of 2018?

Also, the LT is the legal successor to WMI. WMIH is not. So do you agree that any retained assets that are returned would have to go to the LT for distribution?

[CBA09]

Ref: CBA09 What led you to invest in WAMU and did any of your co-workers feel the same way?

Comment:

My banking experience. I am semi- retired CPA.

[CBA09]

Ref: CBA09, are you optimistic that escrows will be rewarded nicely? Nicely, as in 3 to 4 bucks per escrows share or more.

Comment:

Waaay too little. Just ponder this; some of the "Shrewdest Investors" in the world have reserved a seat here and been here over nine years. Even before they were here I was thinking massive. There presence validates my opinion.

[austin01]

That's encouraging coming from you. Thanks! Care to elaborate a little on why you are so optimistic? By the way, I changed my post to this, "CBA09, are you optimistic that escrows will be rewarded nicely? Nicely, as in 3 to 4 bucks per escrows share or more".
I would really be interested in your response to my "3 to 4 bucks per escrows share or more" query.

[Fletch-42]

CBA09 What led you to invest in WAMU and did any of your co-workers feel the same way?

[CBA09]

Ref: CBA09, are you optimistic that escrows will be rewarded well?

Comment:

On a scale of 1 to 10 and ten being the highest level - 10! I have too much experience within the banking industry and specifically Pooling and Serving Agreements (PSA) to believe otherwise.

[austin01]

CBA09, are you optimistic that escrows will be rewarded nicely? Nicely, as in 3 to 4 bucks per escrows share or more.

[gg4]

Can't wait!!!!!

[BBANBOB]

Paid into WELLS ACCTS so far and the rest, well you get it

[CBA09]

Ref: Our interests are in what was OUTSIDE OF THE WMI BK CASE, not what was in it, now we'll be glad to take that as well, but the MONEY AINT IN WMI BK CASE, it's outside of it in our/my opinion.

Comment:

Yes exactly -- Outside, specifically bankruptcy remote assets. Those within SPE's classified as "True Sale" securitized assets.

Simply put, "Off Balance Sheet Assets" reflects assets that WMB gave up the legal ownership rights and complete control to SPE's which in turn is owned by WMI.


WMI being the parent, it is highly unlikely the court will dispute of the final ownership of retained assets to WMI. Just look at the Facts:

1) Off Balance sheet assets are removed from WMB. (Legal ownership given up)

2) Off Balance sheet assets initially transferred / sold to SPE # 1

3) Off Balance sheet assets subsequently transferred to SPE # 2 / Trust.

4) Neither SPE # 1 & # 2 are subsidiaries of WMB but rather WMI.

5) Generally SPE # 1 is the credit enhancer within SPE # 2. Thus SPE # 1 would have ownership in the form of subordinate tranches, namely called a equity ownership.

6) Both the SPE's # 1 & # 2 along with assets and income generated within are isolated from WMB.

[BBANBOB]

Who sir would you then pick? WELLS OPPS Bear Sterns ooops Lehmans OOOPS GS ooops MS oooops, really ya need to wak up pard they don't get that large being honest/moral/ethical SORRY!!

[Zalviny]

yay up one tenth of a penny

[austin01]

I would have liked much more transparency and communication from our leaders. That's been a concern for me, too.

[BBANBOB]

Johny
I have been NOW dealing with getting everything straight in my wife's estate (an atom on a gnats ass compared)for almost 6 yrs when their was a trust involved many good lawyers and now even probate and am still not completely done,so YEP I GET IT and yes you're correct WMAU was HUGE one of the biggest around

[johnydollar]

Sometimes you got to stop and wonder, either there is Big money to settle or money leaving through the back door.IMO

[fwh3334zeke]

I know that before they changed to Electronic checks JPM used to write my PAPER CHECK.

[austin01]

The duration of settling this fiasco has had me suspicious for a long time.

[johnydollar]

How Big was WAMU? calculate 9 years and they are still not done with it.

[dennyduper]

Thanks appreciate you taking the time. Yes we will see.

[BBANBOB]

Denny
Just like all here I no idea of how they would calculate the pay out matrix, it would be almost any number they choose.
I have suggested they could do the exact 180 degree opposite of what they did the last go around and they could do something different s well.
But sorry I can't tell ya as I have no idea how it could all shake out in the end and like I said they could also do the exact same or opposite with the PREFFERDS or they could give prefferds commons , guess we wait and see

[Donotunderstand]

correct

I do not see the money outside the LT and do not think it is there

As always - I wish all of us who got screwed a happy ending and hope I am wrong and that there is money that will flow to WMIH or to the escrows that become LT interests or ...

Question

What is the value of WMMRC as owned by WMIH after 5 years of their runoff paper ---- running off?

50 million that comes to WMIH?

[wowalters]

Not yet, but a lot are headed there.

[Donotunderstand]

I agree WMIH already owns it

I thought - going back to the POR - that this company held some "old paper" that was "running off" with incoming cash flow of interest and principal

Such run off paper - held by WMIH via WMM.. was the collateral behind the jr and sr paper issued by WMIH per the POR (that later got used as payment to the WMI LT and out to PIERS holders)

Good to see my junior paper is redeemed in full and with all 13% (as was the senior paper years ago)

There is some value left to that paper - but how much can it be ?
(I think it started at 200 million and much has "matured or been pre paid" and the cash used to buy back the loans WMIH issued)

I own escrow and WMIH and I assume WMIH gets this money

I assume it is < 50 million

[BBANBOB]

The point wasn't only that they could write the SS check but the underlying point IS and WAS THEY ARE DA BOYZ(US GOV) BANK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Had they failed we would have as well on that you can count and so would the rest of the world! LIKE it or not WE are the face of the world financially, we fail it all goes POOF

They has no choice but to use us WAMU to prop JPMC

all of this is crying over spilt milk, all we want are our glasses filled back up!!!!!!!!!

[dennyduper]

BB. Just wondering say if new shares are offered would it be from the amount of escrow markers one holds? Say a forward split happened 3/1 and you held 10,000 common escrow would you end up with 30,000?

[goodietime]

BBAN, I agree that JPM failure would have been a BAD thing. They are a very shady operation(criminal imo) with HUGE derivative exposure.

I'm just saying, ANY bank can be used to issue SS checks.
So, that is NOT why they were saved.

[BBANBOB]

"""We see such assets of LT and they are not Billions - maybe 50 million net for equity """"


Again and as always you as other here do are being VERY SPECIFIC and the assets of which you speak that are currently in the LT are from the WMI BK CASE, but won't and are not not addressing any assets held OUTSIDE THE WMI BK CASE and never will, either on purpose of confusion.........WMI goes with from 0-2.7b MAXXXXXXXXXXXXX.

Our interests are in what was OUTSIDE OF THE WMI BK CASE, not what was in it, now we'll be glad to take that as well, but the MONEY AINT IN WMI BK CASE, it's outside of it in our/my opinion

[JusticeWillWin]

WMMRC is a sub of WMIH and is owned by WMIH of course, and if they sell it the money goes to WMIH, not to the WMILT/escrows.

If WMIH has a taxable gain when they sell WMMRC,they can use the NOLs to pay no taxes for this gain.

Az, If they sell WMMRC and that goes to escrows. What benefit except the 2.5% coming back to wmih would the new company have?

[Donotunderstand]

I thought WMIH already owned this company (and it was the collateral to the senior and junior notes issued in an amount thought at the time to be the NPV of future incoming cash payments)

1. Does not WMIH own this already?

2. If it started with say a 200 million value - what might that value be today


How does anyone get to one billion for a RUNOFF company that has not issued any paper or done any new business in 5 years ?

[Donotunderstand]

I assume WMMRC only has as assets notes that are running off - the run off notes

Is there anything else?

And why sell v sit and collect the incoming cash flow?

Any sale of future cash flow will bring less than 100% of the expected total inflow


and finally - my impression from WAY WAY WAY WAY back is the total value of the runoff notes is less than 200 Million ?

[BBANBOB]

GOODIE if you aren't aware of what the MAGNITUDE of a FAILURE of JPM would have done to the world financial community/condition, there really is no hope for you and kind of put ya ways out of your league discussing it.

Had they gone under if you're employed my guess would be you wouldn't have been after their collapse and even if you had a million $$$$$$ in the bank you would have been penny less, there would have been runs on every bank in the WORLD in a flash

[Donotunderstand]

Your point?

We see such assets of LT and they are not Billions - maybe 50 million net for equity

?

[goodietime]

"JPM writes SS checks so Govt. could not let them fail."

Anybody could write those SS checks. It's not like it is JPM's money.

[BBANBOB]

"""""However, it is how this case is played and closed such as during the final POR 7 signed on 2/23/2012 that issued Escrow Markers to those that signed timely releases by the deadline as well they were issued NewCo/WMIH stock that make the difference.""""

LG it just struck me, this may VERY well be the reason we were issued markes in teh first place....

They knew thsi had to go down impaired but they also KNEW the owed all that was left over and had to make that right and possibly some compensation on top for the illegal aspects of it, AND they could not do any of that in the case or it would open a litigation morass as some call it ,so we got markers and will only be paid AFTER THE BK CLOSE COMPLETELY, thus the HISTORICAL LOOK of a legit seizure

[Donotunderstand]

Please explain

Is this run off income ?

Is this pre paid principal ?

???

[fwh3334zeke]

Yes but the FDIC saved JPM's bacon, as they were going under from derivative plays, JPM writes SS checks so Govt. could not let them fail.
IMO just as GUILTY as anyone else!
What did the raise the over 700 BILLION for??

[PickStocks]

Botchberg's was a stick in the eye for equity......There was not one thing good that came of it and equity was ready to sue him for the crappy analysis he did but was protected by the judge and collected his money and left......

[footballref-8541]

Az, If they sell WMMRC and that goes to escrows. What benefit except the 2.5% coming back to wmih would the new company have?

[AZCowboy]

~ The Plan To Sell WMMRC, ~

Was part of the original Plan 6’ submission ... I don’t think that future consideration changed with the transition from the failed Plan 6, ... to the approved Plan 7’

AZ

[Zalviny]

look again 5/10 of a penny

[JB3136]

here is something pocket jokers might be interested in

https://www.thenation.com/article/how-americas-biggest-bank-paid-its-fine-for-the-2008-mortgage-crisis-with-phony-mortgages/

[Large Green]

No doubt, ready to move on any day.There is one thing that WMIH has to do in my view and cannot wait PAST Halloween 2017 and that is at least an update on the funding. Replacement, shutdown of WMIH or a QA.

They have to at least provide an 8K filing showing what they are going to do with this publicly traded company WMIH-Corp.

[AZCowboy]

~ LG, I Doubt That WMIH Wants Any Of This ~

WMMRC' was simply a necessary part of the original process' consideration' ... WMMRC was kept functioning, due to the fact that there were concerning Loans' that had not been packaged into an ABS-Cert` at the time of the seizure' ...

... Loans that required PMI Insurance are usually crap to begin with' ... But, JPMC got to service the whole WaMu load' ...

The Original WMI remaining PMI Insurers within WMMRC, (4 of 7 now remain) needed to be kept active upon the 09/2008 seizure, while JPMC continued to service the loans that originally needed PMI' Insurance' ...

... NOPE' ... WMIH-Corp, paying anything for WMMRC would be a stupid forward moving financial decision' ... If I were to take a stab at this ? ... I would say that JPMC got this load of WMMRC crap, along with WMB' the bank' ... and JPMC paid' for whatever is remaining in there' ...

heck, the original insurance securitization bond, which has been held in HI' the whole time, is worth more than WMMRC at this point in time anyway' ...

heck, WMIH-Corp, ending up getting a couple of bucks for WMMRC plus the return of the original WMI bond' ... ? ... and' ... Turn The Page on that'

AZ

[JB3136]

to who and for how much? hope, not just a lousy buck.