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It's good to see so much action on this board...! Ok, don't know where to start, because it's 11pm, and I've been packing for a Labor Day weekend trip to Atlantic City with my wife, and I've had a few glasses of wine - so bear with me.
I think it's pretty much self explanatory that this stock has an extremely low float, and share structure, with most shares owned by insiders. I don't really see a need to split hairs when it comes to this, just go with the stated numbers in my opinion. I think a bigger question would be what part does Edco Partners play into this, as it is listed as Lifeloc's parent company. I would assume that this is due to Vern's outstanding holdings, and his relationship with Edco...? Who is Donald Siecke ? What is/was his relationship between Lifeloc and Edco Partners ? They both, also have a vested interest in a company called Electronics Systems Technology (ELST). This relationship, although it may be insignificant, has always intrigued me.
Vern is now about 90 years old. How does this play into things ? I assume it's his son, Michael, that is also a Director. Where does he fit into all of this?
To answer your question on ownership... Without divulging too much, as I have stated before, I own shares, as well as two relatives. I first purchased shares in Lifeloc back in 2016 for around $4. It was bought as a trade, and I sold it about 6 months later for around $15. When it fell back to around $4, I started buying shares - this time for an investment.
I have been purchasing shares of Lifeloc for the past 5 years, a little at a time, month after month. I have still been actively purchasing shares, and I have not sold any Lifeloc stock since around 2017, when it was approximately $15.
In my opinion, this stock is currently priced at a value of only taking it's alcohol segment into consideration, not including the marijuana/drug portion of it's future business prospect. We truly have a diamond here, and it continues to fly under the radar, due to it's low volume. There is so much stimulus ahead, with so many obstacles behind us, I can easily see this stock moving much higher in the near future. A market cap of just over 6M is unjust, and priced for their alcohol segment only. Taking the near term potential of the THC SpinDx technology, developing into a marketable product, a 100M Market Cap is not unreasonable - please compare other companies...
LCTC opened up at a stock price of $3.50 on March 22, 2012 with a market cap of $8.5 million. Lifeloc was able to trade in the $30's and $40's with a lot less going for it and basically the same outstanding shares as it has today. I have to believe that we can see this stock trade in the $20 range at some point if we can get any type of closure on the SpinDx technology.
Keep in mind that hound labs will be selling it's marijuana breathalyzer device for right around $5,000 and according to Crunchbase it has a post-money valuation of $100-$500 million. And that device can only detect marijuana.
By a show of hands, does anyone here own more than 10,000 shares of Lifeloc?
Don't feel like you have to answer this if it makes you uncomfortable. Just trying to get an idea.
Thanks.
Thanks. So basically until someone or a single entity owns 122,000 shares of Lifeloc stock, they would not have to report it?
A total of 31,700 shares have been issued and added to the outstanding share count since Lifeloc started as a public company. There aren't too many companies out there who have only issued an additional 30,000 shares since going public.
Generally, investors have to report if they have a 5% stake of the entire company. There are no restrictions as to how much of the float an investor can acquire, although the company may try to limit how much of the overall company one investor owns. This is sometimes done to preserve tax losses.
Nice work. Thanks. According to these numbers, the tradable float at the time of Lifeloc's initail listing would have been 196,567.
We know that Barry Knott is no longer associated with the company and does not have to report his shares. If my memory holds correctly, I believe that Alan Castrodale has passed away and his family does not have to report his shares either. So 114,125 shares could be added to the float of 196,567 to get us to a float of around 310,000.
I can grasp how all freely tradable shares are accounted for and the fact that the market makers have to be given some stock to make a market with but what I really want to find out is how many shares are actually owned by the public.
Also, do you know if there are there any restrictions to how many shares of the float an individual can own? Does one have to report when they own a certain percentage of the float?
Thanks!
I'm going to see if I can look into weather Lifeloc has ever had an increase in shares outstanding or since it's IPO has the total shares outstanding remained the same?
Do you know if the outstanding shares have ever been increased?
Thanks for the info. Do you know when or if a non-insider has to publicly disclose his/her ownership of shares if it reaches a certain percentage of the float?
I was just going to post info on that.
So here’s what I found
Holders
As of August 20, 2010, we had approximately 85 holders of record of our common stock. Holders of record include nominees who may hold shares on behalf of multiple owners
Vern D. Kornelsen
c/o Lifeloc Technologies, Inc.
12441 West 49th Ave., Unit 4, Wheat Ridge, CO 80033
1,889,445(3)
78%
Directors and Named Executive Officers
Alan C. Castrodale
c/o Lifeloc Technologies, Inc.
12441 West 49th Ave., Unit 4, Wheat Ridge, CO 80033
50,000
2.1%
Robert D. Greenlee
c/o Lifeloc Technologies, Inc.
12441 West 49th Ave., Unit 4, Wheat Ridge, CO 80033
184,979
7.6%
Robert H. Summers, PhD
c/o Lifeloc Technologies, Inc.
12441 West 49th Ave., Unit 4, Wheat Ridge, CO 80033
11,500
.5%
Barry R. Knott
c/o Lifeloc Technologies, Inc.
12441 West 49th Ave., Unit 4, Wheat Ridge, CO 80033
64,125
2.6%
Mark Lary
c/o Lifeloc Technologies, Inc.
12441 West 49th Ave., Unit 4, Wheat Ridge, CO 80033
50,000
2.1%
Kristie LaRose
c/o Lifeloc Technologies, Inc.
12441 West 49th Ave., Unit 4, Wheat Ridge, CO 80033
7,500
.3%
All executive officers and directors as a group, including those
named above (7 persons)
So they started trading in 2010 and went a rare route to do so. They did have 2m warrants that were set to expire in 2020 but something must of happened well before that because share count hasn’t risen too much. Now we can compare current ownership to that list and see who sold some but also some executives aren’t there anymore and don’t need to report.
I could be wrong, but I don't think Lifeloc IPO'd in the regular way. I think they got their stock available for trading on the OTC and trading started as existing shareholders sold stock.
All shares are accounted for - according to float statistics, there is approximately 256,000 shares freely tradable, of the total 2.4 Million shares. Insiders own about 90% of the total shares, leaving the rest for us...
Although the volume seems low, there were actually 108,903 shares traded this year alone, including the 200 today. Market Makers play a big part in keeping a balance in trading, and often sell shares short, which plays a part in the number of shares traded.
In my opinion, this stock is wound up tightly - meaning of the 256,000 float, I believe that there are a few strong hands holding a significant amount of stock, thus reducing the shares that freely trade even more. Lets say that just 5 public shareholders hold at least 10,000 shares, and are here for the long term, with no intention of selling any time soon. Technically, these shares are still freely tradable, and accounted for in the float, but tight hands, holding over 50,000 shares, theoretically reduces that float significantly. Just because the stock trades 4,000 shares in a day, doesn't mean that all 4,000 shares were bought up and held by one or more people for that day. The shares are often sold short by market makers, and bought back in the same day, or in a short period of time, thus not accounted for in the bi-monthly reporting of short interest in the stock.
I am by far not an expert in this, and may not have it 100 percent right, and may not be explaining it correctly. If you do some research on the topic, along with searching the role of a market maker in a stock, it may make more sense to you.
Anyway, it is nice to be off the 52 week lows, even if it's not far off.... There's a lot of room for this run, and hopefully our time is near...
So your saying when Lifeloc IPO’ed in 2014 it had enough interest to sell all 350,000 shares to interested investors?
I’m not convinced that it had any interest at that time. I’ll have to go back and go through the original prospectus and see what they raised and at what price.
You think there was enough interest in 2014 where they sold the entire float?
When a stock initially trades those shares are all sold and then start trading hands. Float expands when new shares are issued or insiders sell. Some non insiders could still be holding shares but those are still considered float cause they aren’t a executive or own 5%+
If you owned 5%+ you would have to report that and file form 4’s.
I’m not convinced they have all been bought by the public.
I don’t think in the history of Lifeloc being a public company, 300,000 shares total has even traded so I don’t see how they could have all been purchased.
Can anyone else enlighten us on how this works?
If in the history of Lifeloc being a public company it hasn’t traded the volume of the public float, can all the available shares still be owned?
All of those shares are bought. The volume that trades everyday is coming from that
Of the 354,015 shares that are available for the public, is there any service that can let us know exactly how many shares are actually owned/have been bought?
2,454,116 outstanding
2,100,101 insiders (not counting options to buy)
354,015 float
I can look into it further but that should be fairly accurate
Looks like the industry got a nice boost today from this report on a possible DEA reclassification for marijuana:
https://seekingalpha.com/news/4007629-cannabis-stocks-rally-amid-reports-dea-may-reclassify-drug-as-less-risky
I keep imagining a scenario where someone just decides to take down the whole float and refuses to sell it at any price.
And then the news starts hitting and more outlets start to publish the Lifeloc story and the technology proves itself worthy and capable of testing for all types of drugs and illegal substances and not just marijuana (which is what sets this technology apart from all the competitors)
Stock splits and Nasdaq uplisting and instead of fighting for pennies this thing starts skipping dollars.
I find it interesting that BLOZF is at the lows for the year and Lifeloc is at the highs for the year. Ideally, I'd like to see the whole sector take off but I don't think that this particular scenerio has ever happened before. BLOZF is back to being valued just 3 times that of Lifeloc. That hasn't happened in quite some time.
I don't think it means much - just an observation.
It's time for Lifeloc to get some public attention and get this stock back above $5 where it deserves to be. Let's see some new highs for the year and get this thing marching higher.
Does anyone know of a service that is paid or free that can let us know exactly how many total shares are owned by the public (non-insiders).
We have touched this price of $2.82 twice already this year and did not break through. We have not seen prices higher than this since December of last year. It's pretty important we get through this resistance level and see if we can push past $3.00
SOBR is promotional, they attend conferences, talk to investors. They claim to have a better mousetrap. Also, they trade on NASDAQ and not the Pink Sheets. Those are the only reasons I can come up with for the disparity. BLOZF has a larger market cap too, they also put out more PR's and seem to be further ahead than LCTC though I'm skeptical.
Let’s get this over $3
I was looking into SOBR, which sits at about a $25 Million market cap. They have just begun to become revenue producing but have yet to earn a profit. Each quarter it looks like they lose about $2.5-$3 Million and have an accumulated deficit of $83 Million. They also continually issue more shares and dilute shareholders to the tune of about 1.5 million shares each year. They do have total assets of around $9 Million but I just don't see how SOBR has more going for it than Lifeloc. The market is valuing SOBR 4 times that of LCTC. SOBR needs to produce a net profit of $83 million just to start breaking even. I just don't see how Lifeloc still sits at such a low valuation compared to competitors in the industry.
I'm patiently hoping to add more shares if there's a little pull-back, but not sure if that's going to happen. Either way, I'm happy with the current upward movement.
nice find. just wish it was more than a 28k contract...
This price area of $2.50 seems like formidable resistance. 1% of the float traded into stronger hands yesterday. Ideally, I'd like to see us get through this area before the news flow starts.
This price area of $2.50 seems like formidable resistance. 1% of the float traded into stronger hands yesterday. Ideally, I'd like to see us get through this area before the news flow starts.
Looks like Lifeloc recently received an award but I'm not sure if it's linked to a patent, grant or service contract:
http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2023/08-August/24-Aug-2023/FBO-06800805.htm
https://sam.gov/opp/0ab5d99de5cf4e8b90fc503f62ee0e6f/view
Highest closing price all year. Have to wind up getting through this price level and start pushing this thing higher before we get some news.
My hope is that we don’t have to wait another 3 months before we hear anything. End of the year is going to come up on us pretty quickly.
I haven’t seen anything that confirms an IPO for Hound Labs but we know they raised close to $100 million from venture capital and other sources and I think there’s a good chance they decide to go public in the near future so that everyone who invested can get paid now that they are revenue producing.
I have to believe that it would bring some quality exposure to any other publicly traded companies that are targeting drug testing solutions.
It would be nice to hear some kind of progress report from Lifeloc certainly before years end but the sooner the better. I reallly hope they are getting their shit together and making it happen. Nobody wants to wait another 3 months before any more news comes out.
Yes that would be very helpful. LCTC would get a lot of attention
One other thing to keep in mind. If Hound Labs decides to go public with an IPO, there will most likely be a good amount of hype surrounding the whole "first marijuana breathalyzer" story and if investors miss out on the Hound Labs IPO, it should give Lifeloc a nice boost and increase investor awareness.
Just keep an eye out for any mention of a Hound Labs IPO in the near future. Now would be the time to go public and raise funds if that's the direction they want to go in.
PD check fb messages...
Also, what I wouldn't mind seeing at this point is some grant money coming from Sandia National Labs (who has a vested interest in the SpinDx technology) to help get Lifeloc through the finish line. Sandia has close to a $4 Billion budget (Yes - Billion) some of which could be utilized to assist Lifeloc through these last couple hurdles. That could really help get this whole thing wrapped up and start directly competing with the Hound Labs device which we know is already producing sales and revenue.
These tests are not DOT approved to the best of my knowledge. I think most only give positive, or negative result, and they recommend following up with a certified lab for positive results. That brings to question - will DOT require specimens to be sent to a certified lab, or will field results be considered conclusive?
I believe the DOT is currently working on certifying two laboratories for this.....
Awesome. Thanks. Is there a way to determine how accurate these tests are and if they are DOT approved?
There are a variety of these saliva tests already available, but I believe most are just a +/-, not a quantitative measure - which would require laboratory diagnostics.
https://www.americanscreeningcorp.com/product/12-panel-saliva-test-w-alco-amp-bar-bup-bzo-coc-mamp-mtd-opi-oxy-pcp-thc-alcohol/
Quick question - Does anyone here know if there are any other companies/organizations/universities/individuals that are working on an oral fluid drug testing device or are all the competitors using breath testing machines - Not just in the US but worldwide.
Also, can anyone confirm if any of the other devices are capable of testing for cocaine, methamphetamine, amphetamine, opiods, benzodiazepine, ketamine and fentanyl in addition to THC or is the Lifeloc device the only one that we know of that is capable of testing for these other drugs in the body?
Check this out - According to Crunchbase "Hound Labs has a post-money valuation in the range of $100M to $500M as of Sep 3, 2021, according to PrivCo.
https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/hound-labs/company_financials
And that valuation is from almost 2 years ago before their device was even released or had any revenue.
Lifeloc has a current valuation of less than $6 million. Needless to say, just based on this information, I will be freeing up some funds and buying some additional LCTC shares. Honestly, even at a market cap of $20 million that still seems like Lifeloc is undervalued. Even at $50 million, that still seems like Lifleoc is undervalued and we are sitting currently at $5.7 million market cap. I will say it again, but if I had the capital, I would take down the whole float myself and just go all in.
We know that it's a multi-billion dollar opportunity for whoever makes it happen.
We also know that Hound Labs was able to raise $100 Million and its total funding is $130 million.
And according to deal room, in September 2021 it had a $150 million valuation.
If the SpinDx technology proves itself, a market cap of $250 million is not really out of the question.
I know that when we look at it today at $2.50/share it seems absurd but the possibility does exist.
Hound Labs Update:
According to Martin IP Law Group, the Hound Labs Marijuana Breathalyzer could make the California Company Billions as more states legalize the use of marijuana:
https://ipsolutionslaw.com/category/innovation/
Hound Labs, an Oakland, California company that was founded in 2014, has invented a breathalyzer machine that can detect recent use of marijuana by a person that may indicate that the person is impaired. With several states having already legalized or de-criminalized recreational use of marijuana, such a device would make our highways and roads safer by finding and punishing people who drive under the influence of marijuana in the same way as those who operate under the influence of alcohol. The availability of such a device may also lead to the rapid legalization of marijuana throughout the country.
The handheld device detects the presence of marijuana in a person’s lungs. Its operation is simple – for two minutes a person breathes into the handheld device, which is reportedly a billion times more sensitive than an alcohol breathalyzer. The breath that the handheld device collects in a cartridge is loaded into another machine for analysis. After about ten minutes, the machine will tell you whether there is marijuana in a person’s breath that would suggest that they have used marijuana recently. Testing the breath appears to be a far better indicator of whether someone is “high”, as it tests whether someone has used marijuana in the past two or three hours – the time that correlates with the greatest level of impairment. The device is also capable of detecting vaped or ingested cannabis.
Hound Labs has reportedly raised $65 million and has already secured nine U.S. Patents on its invention, with at least two more applications pending. The “weed breathalyzer” was recently featured in Newsweek and on The Today Show, where it was mentioned several times that the device will be expensive. But with law enforcement looking for better ways to keep the streets safe from impaired drivers, it’s a good bet that many will invest in the devices as marijuana use increases due to legalization. Assuming Hound Labs was able to secure relatively broad protection for the invention with its patents, it could be the sole supplier of “weed breathalyzers” to police departments across the country for the next 20 years! What a great example of how to use intellectual property to make money and grow a business while also providing a needed and valuable service to the community!
I’d prefer services like money morning to hop on the bandwagon after the run has started and the news is out and the stock price has already moved higher on its own.
That just brings in short term flippers and the stock will never maintain momentum.
I’d rather see a very small group or even just 1 investor take down the float on their own. It would take about $630,000 at current prices to own the entire public float.
First things first - We need to clear this $2.50 resistance and take out this 2,000 share seller. I just feel like for as long as we have been in this stock there has been a relentless seller of shares as soon as we start to see some momentum.
Where in the world are all these shares coming from and who is still selling stock when we are trading in the low to mid $2 range? There can not possibly be that many shares left to go in the public float.
Who is watching this stock, reading the quarterly report and then saying I didn’t really like what I saw and it’s time sell more shares here at $2.50?
Are these shares a gift here at $2.50 for anyone who wants them or is it just the same old pattern with this stock and we trade right back down? I guess time will tell.
I always felt this should trade between 10-20 before we get News and if this technology works 100+ is possible
100 share is only 250m market cap.
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Lifeloc (OTC:LCTC) is a public company established in 1983. We introduced our first breathalyzer to the US Department of Transportation in 1988. We are an American manufacturer of professional-grade, platinum fuel cell based instruments for alcohol detection, measurement and enforcement.
Since our founding, our corporate mission has been to build the most precise, reliable and easiest to use breath alcohol testing devices in the industry. We take pride in offering everything an organization requires to establish an effective alcohol monitoring program including equipment, mouthpieces, factory authorized training and certifications, and a complete line of alcohol testing supplies and calibration equipment.
-Today, our highly accurate and reliable fuel cell devices are the preferred choice by professionals in countries around the world. We back everything we sell with exemplary customer service and technical support.Volume | |
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