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My wife and I are both Catholic, and feel that the Catholic church has the same problems other organizations of men have...We strongly object to the number of people who have been killed in the name of whichever god one believes in...All Life is sacred, and we feel that Jesus was representing all of humanity.
Shermann
I AGREE NOT POPULAR BUT TRUE!
ontinued--“Once Saved, Always Saved”?
"Notice the inspired warning of the disciple Jude. He wrote: “Beloved ones, though I was making every effort to write you about the salvation we hold in common, I found it necessary to write you to exhort you to put up a hard fight for the faith that was once for all time delivered to the holy ones.” (Jude 3)
Why did Jude write this? Because he knew that individual Christians could still lose the ‘salvation they hold in common.’ He went on to say: “I desire to remind you . . . that Jehovah, although he saved a people [the Israelites] out of the land of Egypt, afterwards destroyed those not showing faith.”—Jude 5.
Jude’s warning would be pointless if Christians did not face a danger similar to that of those Israelites. Jude was not questioning the value of Jesus’ sacrifice. That sacrifice has saved us from Adamic sin, and Jesus will protect those who exercise faith in him. No one can snatch them out of his hand.
But we can lose that protection. How? By doing what was done by many Israelites who were saved from Egypt. We can deliberately choose to disobey God.—Deuteronomy 30:19, 20.
Imagine being rescued from a burning tower. Think of the relief you would feel as you were safely taken from the building and the rescuer said: “You are safe now.” Yes, you would have been saved from certain death. But what would happen if you decided to go back into the building for some foolish reason? Your life would again be in danger.
Christians are in a saved condition. They have the prospect of everlasting life because they are in an approved position before God. As a group, their salvation from Adamic sin and all its consequences is sure. But individually they will be saved to eternal life only if they continue to adhere to all of God’s requirements.
Jesus emphasized this when he likened himself to a vine and his disciples to branches in that vine. He said: “Every branch in me not bearing fruit [God] takes away . . . If anyone does not remain in union with me, he is cast out as a branch and is dried up; and men gather those branches up and pitch them into the fire and they are burned.” (John 15:2, 6; Hebrews 6:4-6) Those losing faith in Jesus also lose everlasting life.
“He That Has Endured . . . Will Be Saved”
Yes, there are various things involved in getting saved. We must take in accurate knowledge of God’s purposes and his way of salvation. Then we must exercise faith in the Chief Agent of salvation, Jesus Christ, and do God’s will the rest of our lives. (John 3:16; Titus 2:14) Salvation is sure for those who follow this course. But it involves persevering right to the end of our present life or of this system of things. Only “he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.”—Matthew 24:13.
Along with others in his household, the jailer in Philippi responded positively to the message of salvation that Paul and Silas preached. “One and all, he and his were baptized without delay.” (Acts 16:33) We can take similar positive action. Thus, we will enter into a close and blessed relationship with Jehovah God and his Son, Jesus Christ, and can have complete confidence in divine provisions for salvation. The Philippian jailer “rejoiced greatly with all his household now that he had believed God.” (Acts 16:34) Such a course will also cause us to ‘rejoice greatly.’ "
focussing on the ego and being we have in common (that was already clear)
and looking into history we also have in common. the only difference is that my threat ended with the alchemists and that you go all way back to the Sumerians, an unknown path to me.
but I'll take the time to look into it.
thx, I find this interesting.
so, have you and your wife been born again? and what did jesus mean when he said you should be born again- iyo?
Wise words my friend! We have enough here to keep ourselves busy!
Personally, both my wife and I feel that it is more important to follow Jesus' teachings rather than worry about whether he is the son of god...We will all find out soon enough!!!
Shermann
"WHY do we need to be saved? Because all of us suffer the disastrous consequences of sin: imperfection, pain, sickness, grief, and finally death. The apostle Paul explained that this is so because our forefather Adam rebelled against God’s law. Paul wrote: “Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.” (Romans 5:12) Why did Adam’s sin cause death to spread to all men? Really, this was because of the natural outworking of things.
When Adam sinned, he was condemned to death in accord with divine law. This was both just and necessary. It was just, for life is not a right but a gift from God. By sinning deliberately, Adam forfeited all claim to that gift. (Romans 6:23) Adam’s condemnation to death was necessary because nothing imperfect can be permitted to survive and pollute the universe indefinitely. Thus, when Adam sinned, he began to die and no longer possessed perfect, sinless life to hand on to his children as an inheritance. He could only give them life tainted with imperfection and sin.—Romans 8:18-21.
We should not, however, forget that it is only because of God’s undeserved kindness that we have even the short existence that is our lot today. (Job 14:1) God was not obliged to allow Adam and Eve to have children before they died. He allowed them to do so in order to prove that some imperfect humans would support God’s sovereignty by keeping their integrity to him. God allowed this, too, because he knew that eventually he would redeem, or save, responsive descendants of those original rebels, Adam and Eve. How?
Provision for Salvation --Jehovah God could not simply set aside his righteous judgment. He cannot arbitrarily forget Adam’s original sin and all that mankind has added to it since then. If God were to ignore his own just laws, this would undermine respect for his whole system of justice and confidence in it. Imagine the outcry that would be heard if, because of some personal whim, a human judge arbitrarily allowed a criminal to go unpunished. However, a compassionate judge can appropriately arrange for a statutory fine to be paid on behalf of a guilty person by some other willing individual. This, in a way, is what God has done for us.
Jehovah arranged for his own Son, Jesus Christ, to give his perfect human life in place of the perfect life forfeited by Adam. Jesus willingly carried the penalty for our sins—death. (Isaiah 53:4, 5; John 10:17, 18) The Bible says: “The Son of man came . . . to give his soul a ransom in exchange for many.” (Matthew 20:28; 1 Timothy 2:6) No one else could do this. Jesus was unique in that he was born without sin and remained a perfect, sinless human right up to his death. (Hebrews 7:26; 1 Peter 2:22) His faithfulness to death made it possible for him to pay the statutory penalty for our sins.
Remember, though, that God, the Supreme Judge, is under no obligation to free everyone. He views Jesus’ sacrificed perfect human life as the payment of the debt we owe for sin. But Jehovah God will not apply this to unrepentant, unappreciative, willful sinners. Instead of offering some kind of general amnesty or universal salvation, the Bible sets out conditions that must be met if we are to be saved from the effects of inherited sin.
Requirements for Salvation
So, then, what is required for salvation? The prime requirement is the one that the apostle Paul stated to the Philippian jailer: “Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will get saved.” (Acts 16:31) Heartfelt acceptance of the shed blood of Jesus is essential if we are going to be saved. And what will salvation mean for us? Jesus indicated the answer when he said: “I give them everlasting life, and they will by no means ever be destroyed.” (John 10:28)
For most, salvation will mean everlasting life on an earth restored to paradisaic perfection. (Psalm 37:10, 11; Revelation 21:3, 4) In the case of a “little flock,” however, it will mean ruling with Jesus in his heavenly Kingdom.—Luke 12:32; Revelation 5:9, 10; 20:4.
Some suggest that belief in Jesus is the end of the matter. “There is just one thing that any one needs to do to get to heaven,” says one religious tract. “That is, to accept Jesus Christ as his personal Saviour, surrender to Him as Lord and Master, and openly confess Him as such before the world.” Thus, many believe that a sudden, emotional conversion experience is all we need in order to guarantee everlasting life. However, to concentrate on only one essential requirement for salvation to the exclusion of the others is like reading one crucial clause in a contract and ignoring the rest.
This becomes more evident when we listen to the comments of some who at one time thought that professing belief in Jesus was all that was needed to be saved. Bernice says: “I was raised in the Brethren Church, but I came to wonder why, if everlasting life is dependent solely on Jesus, he himself said: ‘This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.’”—John 17:3.
For nine years Norman was convinced that he was saved. But then he saw that more was required than an emotional profession that Jesus Christ was his Savior. “I saw from the Bible that it was not enough just to acknowledge to God that we are sinners and in need of salvation,” he says. “We also have to do works that befit repentance.”—Matthew 3:8; Acts 3:19.
Yes, believing in Jesus is crucial to our salvation, but more is needed. Jesus spoke of some who professed faith in him and even did “powerful works” in his name. But he did not recognize them. Why? Because they were “workers of lawlessness” and did not do the will of his Father. (Matthew 7:15-23) The disciple James reminds us of the need to “become doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves with false reasoning.” He also said: “You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. . . . Faith without works is dead.”—James 1:22; 2:19, 26.
Some, though, argue that those who are genuinely saved do all these things anyway. But is that really the case in practice? Denis, who ‘accepted Jesus’ when he was a young boy, says: “The ‘saved’ people I have known feel no great need to examine the Scriptures because they think they already have all they need for salvation.” Indeed, the hypocrisy and unchristian acts of many who claim to be saved have brought the whole subject of salvation into disrepute.
Nevertheless, many insist that the Scriptures say: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life.” (John 3:36, King James Version) Therefore, they conclude that once you have accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Savior, you can never again be lost. “Once saved, always saved” is their watchword. But is that what the Scriptures really say? To answer this, we need to consider everything the Bible says on the subject. We would not want to ‘deceive ourselves with false reasoning’ by reading only selected parts of God’s Word."
CONTINUED--
Unemployment fell to 7.4% in Ohio Last Month...Even Some Democratic Think Tanks are impressed with the Jobs Ohio program...
He is really doing a great job, and as a State Employee...I really appreciate it!!!
Shermann
Thnx Sherm.....well said, but then I would expect nothing less.
Hey Shermann your Governor should run for president!
Freudian definition of Ego???
Shermann
2 pronged. My focus in personal matters is on the ego. Imo....it's the cause of all man-made problems. It separates us from God and each other. It is a tool that would be king.
History is important foer understanding how we got to this point. rather than go into a big disciurse, I'll point you to the "Cliff Notes"......Zecharia Sitchin's, "Lost Book of Enki"....
http://www.filestube.com/951f97f6b168c04e03ea,g/Sitchin-Zecharia-The-Lost-Book-of-Enki.html
or watch the vid series beginning with http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=67651980&txt2find=enki
my discussion boards don't have bans. but that might be because nobody discuses anything on it? lol
What Jesus Means to Me by Mahatma Gandhi
Although I have devoted a large part of my life to the study of religion and to discussion with religious leaders of all faiths, I know very well that I cannot but seem presumptuous in writing about Jesus Christ and trying to explain what he means to me. I do so only because my Christian friends have told me, on more than a few occasions, that for the very reason I am not a Christian and that (I shall quote their words exactly) “I do not accept Christ in the bottom of my heart as the only Son of God,” it is impossible for me to understand the profound significance of his teachings, or to know and interpret the greatest source of spiritual strength that man has ever known.
Although this may or may not be true in my case, I have reasons to believe that it is an erroneous point of view. I believe that such an estimate is incompatible with the message that Jesus Christ gave to the world. For, he was certainly the highest example of one who wished to give everything, asking nothing in return, and not caring what creed might happen to be professed by the recipient. I am sure that if he were living here now among men, he would bless the lives of many who perhaps have never even heard his name, if only their lives embodied the virtues of which he was a living example on earth; the virtues of loving one’s neighbour as oneself and of doing good and charitable works among one’s fellowmen.
What, then, does Jesus mean to me? To me, he was one of the greatest teachers humanity has ever had. To his believers, he was God’s only begotten Son.* Could the fact that I do or do not accept this belief make Jesus have any more or less influence in my life? Is all the grandeur of his teaching and of his doctrine to be forbidden to me? I cannot believe so.
To me, it implies a spiritual birth. My interpretation, in other words, is that in Jesus’ own life is the key of his nearness to God; that he expressed, as no other could, the spirit and will of God. It is in this sense that I see him and recognize him as the Son of God.
The Spirit of Jesus
But I do believe that something of this spirit that Jesus exemplified in the highest measure, in its most profound human sense, does exist. I must believe this; if I did not believe it, I should be a sceptic; and to be a sceptic is to live a life that is empty and lacks moral content. Or, what is the same thing, to condemn the entire human race to a negative end.
It is true that there certainly is reason for scepticism when one observes the bloody butchery that European aggressors have unloosed, and when one thinks about the misery and suffering prevalent in every corner of the world, as well as the pestilence and famine that always follow, terribly and inevitably, upon war.
In the face of this, how can one speak seriously of the Divine Spirit incarnate in man? Because these acts of terror and murder offend the conscience of man; because man knows that they represent evil; because in the inner depths of his heart and of his mind, he deplores them. And because, moreover, when he does not go astray, misled by false teachings or corrupted by false leaders, man has within his breast an impulse for good and a compassion that is the spark of Divinity, and which some day, I believe, will burst forth into the full flower that is the hope of all mankind.
Jesus’ Example
An example of this flowering may be found in the figure and in the life of Jesus. I refuse to believe that there now exists or has ever existed a person that has not made use of his example to lessen his sins, even though he may have done so without realizing it. The lives of all have, in some greater or lesser degree, been changed by his presence, his actions, and the words spoken by his divine voice.
I believe that it is impossible to estimate the merits of the various religions of the world, and, moreover, I believe that it is unnecessary and harmful even to attempt it. But each one of them, in my judgment, embodies a common motivating force: the desire to uplift man’s life and give it purpose.
And because the life of Jesus has the significance and the transcendency to which I have alluded, I believe that he belongs not solely to Christianity, but to the entire world; to all races and people, it matters little under what flag, name or doctrine they may work, profess a faith, or worship a God inherited from their ancestors.
— The Modern Review, October 1941, republished on mahatma.org.in/
* The word ‘begotten’ has for Gandhiji a significance that is more profound and possibly nobler than its simple literal meaning.
Don't worry Jesus had normal parents too!
So? Does your board have bans? Multi got a time out and the other guy added nothing!
you're funny today.
ok, I don't ask you again.
BUT AS A F#CKING CHRISTIAN YOU SHOULD KNOW!!!
lol
right. 2 people like to post and share their opinion. but they can't. lol
like mary was my mother and i was concieved by the holy spirit. no.
Nice edit.....and it is a lament.....it feels unjust and yet I'm told that "God" is just. When I then ask questions, I'm told that "God works in mysterious ways......and that's not really satisfying. So, there I am...totally at a loss. I cannot and will not live my life that way.
Why would I do that? Wall like yourself is a good solid poster....I don't want all the same as Mods on the Board! Wall and I represent extremes while JJL and WildBilly smooth out the rough edges! Daytona wild card......it works and people like to post!
in the sense you consider yourself a son of God or not.
I agree with the separation thing (without the "Him" of course), but I have contended that the separation is in the mind only. How can you be separated from something that is everywhere....which is also part of your belief.
I am back to the point where I left the thread behind. (a few years ago)
so I'm inquiring. maybe our Rosicrucian friend will shed some light here.
where's your focus on and how about the Sumerian alien stuff (of course I do not believe at the snap of a finger - that would make me a Christian, lol!)
just asking... cuz I know if I would have a real conversation with you it would certainly lead to inquiring into certain matters.
1st part- is separation from him
2nd part- i hear ya - and do agree with your lament
I know that you don't agree so what do you mean by that? or which part?.....or...was that your signature brushoff?...lol.
And what would that be?....eternal damnation? The whole thing makes no sense to me.
Why put the tree of g & e in the garden in the first place? I know....free will. But then why damn the whole human race because of 2 people's deeds? We start out with the deck stacked against us and whose fault is that......certainly not mine! I didn't ask for any of this. I was born and woke up one day to find myself in a nut house (the world).
you are looking at the world- and you see injustice and poverty.
now if god came to earth to save man. and there is still injustice and poverty - he must be saving man from something else.
From little things you've said, I don't think you buy into the Sumerian alien thing. But, imo, that's where it all starts.
I know your thoughts about Jesus, and I tend to agree, but for me that's just too hard to prove, so my focus is elsewhere.
do you consider yourself a son of God?
Well....no. I've read most of the bible. That's why I think what I think. What I read doesn't match what I see every day.
I forgot where I found that, lol
but this is interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeticism
my questions;
where did Jesus get his wisdom?
-who came first? Jesus or the gnostics. so who came first?
-was Jesus initiated in the wisdom of hermeticism?
it's a sure bet that from you I will not receive the answer that it came directly from God. joke.
add the verse you are aware of to the others that you may or may not be aware of- then it will make sense.
I'm aware of that verse, but I don't get the concept. To me, it's sorta like 911.....we invaded Afghanistan....ok....I got that......but why did we invade Iraq?
So, "saved" from what, to what and how can the death of "His" "Son" accomplish anything. People still sin daily. Nothing much has changed that I can see.
There just nice meaningless words to me.
here is something to be aware of:
...God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. John 3:17
To understand the actual requires awareness
The what is is what you are, not what you would like to be; it is not the ideal because the ideal is fictitious, but it is actually what you are doing, thinking, and feeling from moment to moment. What is is the actual, and to understand the actual requires awareness, a very alert, swift mind. But if we begin to condemn what is, if we begin to blame or resist it, then we shall not understand its movement. If I want to understand somebody, I cannot condemn him -I must observe, study him. I must love the very thing I am studying. If you want to understand a child, you must love and not condemn him. You must play with him, watch his movements, his idiosyncrasies, his ways of behavior; but if you merely condemn, resist, or blame him, there is no comprehension of the child. Similarly, to understand what is, one must observe what one thinks, feels, and does from moment to moment. That is the actual. Any other action, any ideal or ideological action is not the actual -it is merely a wish, a fictitious desire to be something other than what is. So, to understand what is requires a state of mind in which there is no identification or condemnation, which means a mind that is alert and yet passive.
Krishnamurti_Collected Works, Vol. V,50,Choiceless Awareness
Tell me more or give me a link......please.
that could be in the same line as hermetic belief;
they proclaim that the bad God, the bad demiurg created universe.
wally, i don't mind you calling me luvvy.
Luvvy.....I had some thoughts I wanted to share before I go out.
First off..... I can't call you "Love" because it doesn't feel right coming out of my mouth.....you don't use profanity, but at times you are mean-spirited and demeaning in your own coy way.....not at all what I would consider loving. "Luvvy" is not derogatory in any way, and I hope you'll accept me calling you that.
Secondly....you've not been on any boards where I was the mod, so you really have no idea what I'm like as one. I still haven't made up my mind whether or not I want the job, but I can tell you this and you can refer back to this post whenever the urge strikes you.......as a mod, I try my best to be fair. As a mod, I have different priorities....the board comes first...... and to that end is why $M$ was given a break. I knew that if I didn't do that, I would be spending the whole day arguing with him to very little benefit and in turn, subjecting the board to that quarrel. That is NOT how a board should be, imo. I think everyone had enough of that yesterday.
Thirdly...you have nothing to be concerned about with me as mod. As I said....you'v earned your stripes. You would have to be extraordinarily rude to get under my skin......and that's not really you......is it?
May you have the wind at your back.
Jonah.....I've mentioned my point of view on this before. I believe the "God" of the OT is a compilation of 2 gods....2 brothers named Enki and Enlil.
Enlil is the stern god willing to destroy his creation, while Enki, who saved humanity, is the god referred to by the psalmist.
There is ample evidence for what I'm saying.
I don't hate them, just don't think anyone should have a free ride.
and you need to give it a rest with your hate for paul and those who believe in grace. lol
only a pray? i have a christian politics board that you can post on. i haven't banned anyone. have fun.
You need to add thorns to your flower pic. lol
You banned me on your board for saying a prayer. lol
i'm glad you don't push my bottons- i would hate to hear the names i would come up with for you.
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