Grey Market or Grey Sheet Q & A

[Cassandra]

I'm not familiar with this situation. The SEC Form 25 appears to have been filed by the NYSE, not the company. Therefore it doesn't look like a voluntary delisting.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1111817/000114331313000015/xslF25X02/primary_doc.xml

If the SEC found serious fraud, I would think they might issue a suspension as a warning to the investing public, but a grey market stock might not be a high priority for them to investigate/

[MorningLightMountain]

Grey Sheet halt question:

LPH became LPIH today, a Grey sheet.....but it's my understanding that the halt for the past months has been a Co "self-induced" halt (sorry, don't know the lingo or codes)

Can the SEC still come in at a later time and suspend an already Grey Stock for another 10 days if they find cause????

PS: I have no idea!!!!

[MorningLightMountain]

Longwei Petroleum, LPIH (formerly LPH)

http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/lpih/quote

[MorningLightMountain]

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/headlines/20130214-the-mystery-of-southridge-enterprises-and-its-ghost-executives-who-were-supposedly-murdered-in-mexico.ece

[Cassandra]

Another educational post-suspension grey market chart:

SRGE

[Renee]

Sounds better when it reads as 1.5 buh-buh-buh-BILLION.

[Crazy Money]

1.5 Billion shares ...

[Crazy Money]

plus those over there claiming they did so and or 65% and that it will be 100% by tomorrow so that any shares that trade next week are more naked shorties ( lol ) ... or whatever crazy number they are up to now ... are full of crapola ... oh wait ... they also may be talking about electronic ones as well ... lolzzz... but same deal ... JIMHNO

[CyberCall™]

can you please give me a legal opinion.....

ACCR in 2007 filed a 15d with the SEC. the 15d sought exemption from the duty to file reports under section 15d-6 which states there must be less than 300 shareholders in order for the exemption to take effect. in 2007 ACCR had more than 300 shareholders per the transfer agent. as a matter of fact, closer to 450 at the time.

does this mean that the form 15 was filed in error? and that the issuer still has an obligation to file reports? and thus has a chance to come back?

can an issuer file a withdraw request of the erroneous filing by past management?

i've been trying to get some opinions on the matter.

take a look at that and please advise.........
ps- can you also tell me what would happen if in 2007 the CEO of that company issued himself 250,000,000 unrestricted block of stock, but later it was cancelled by new management....would that cause a problem if anyone sod shares hedged against that 250,000,000 share issuance of stock?

[MorningLightMountain]

lol, I've seen some sold on various websites for a few bucks!!!!....ya never know in a hundred years, maybe someone will have nostalgia for stuff like presoaped sponges, etc....

PS: affinity....a long tradition of using other people's money for unfounded concepts!!!

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/11610

A handful of obscure, motorized airplanes claim to have been flown before the Wright brothers did so in 1903. But none has the civic support, or the biblical pedigree, of the one in Pittsburg, Texas

Cannon formed The Ezekiel Air Ship Mfg Co., sold $20,000 in stock to his neighbors, and supervised the construction of his contraption in a local iron foundry.

http://www.oldstocks.com/worth.htm

[janice shell]

Anyone suggesting that shareholders pull their certs from a stock under SEC suspension is likely trying to eliminate competition from selling the stock when it opens on the grey market so they can get as high a price as possible when they sell.

Absolutely!

[Renee]

It's outrageous advice for the SRGE IRP (aka PERP) to encourage SRGE shareholders to ask for certificates.

The reprehensible culprit should use his influence to ungag the transfer agent. Alas, the reprehensible PUKE would never want the T/A ungagged because SRGE shareholders would see that the A/S has likely been diluted to ~1.3 billion and not the ~500 million they have been led to believe.

This is an insidious tactic to get as many SRGE Shareholders to hold their shares (electronic or Cert) so that the SRGE culprits can sell the remainining A/S to the deluded optimists for whatever they can get.

200 million shares are worth $20,000 per .0001 tick. At .001 that's worth $200,000, and so on.

The SRGE frauds continue with abject disregard for the hapless shareholders.

Time to call Yosemite Sam to deal with the situation.

[Cassandra]

Is "pulling certs" a good idea for a suspended/grey market stock? NO!!!

A stock promoter is advising shareholders of SRGE (a company suspended by the SEC on 12/28/12 and will re-open a GM stock on 1/14/13) to pull their stock certificates from their brokerage accounts and hold them in paper form.

IMO, this advice should be considered criminal. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by a shareholder from taking such action, but everything to lose. Paper certs are completely illiquid. With a grey market stock suspended by the SEC for possible fraud, it is likely that the paper cert will never be accepted for deposit by a broker so that the shares can be sold. In other words, shareholders could lose the ability to ever sell their stock.

Anyone suggesting that shareholders pull their certs from a stock under SEC suspension is likely trying to eliminate competition from selling the stock when it opens on the grey market so they can get as high a price as possible when they sell.

[poster44ny]

I think so too.

[Renee]

SRGE released the Kinross news on Dec 26, a CDN national holiday. Kinross corporate was closed for the day.

That isn't merely a lack of courtesy but a deliberate action by SRGE to sell as many shares as they could while Kinross was on holiday. With over 400 million volume SRGE likely sold a large percentage of the 400 million.

To sell a vast amount of shares on false news releases are SEC securities violations and DOJ criminal frauds.

The SRGE fraudsters likely live outside the U.S.A. and they know the worst that would happen is an SEC Suspension for SRGE that they knew was imminent anyway. No prosecutions have yet happened to the SAEI fraudsters so the same culprits operating the SRGE frauds were confident they could get away with one more perfect fraud by releasing earth-shattering news on a CDN national holiday.

The SRGE fraudsters won. The SRGE shareholders lost.

[poster44ny]

A genuine CA+JV doesn't have one partner PRing the other's name w/o notification first. Basic common sense and business courtesy.

[Crazy Money]

Bump

[CyberCall™]

CASSIE, I KNOW THAT FINRA DOES NOT OWN OTCMARKETS.COM, THEY OWN OTCBB.COM.

[Cassandra]

You are misinformed. FINRA does not own or regulate OTCMarkets,com. OTC Markets Group, Inc. is an independent publicly traded corporation (OTCQX: OTCM).

Although FINRA is the SRO for OTC stocks it has no authority over what the OTC Markets Group does on its website.

Perhaps you are thinking of the OTCBB quotation system, which FINRA owns and operates. It is not related to OTC Markets which offers competing quotation systems.

FINRA has nothing whatsoever to do with the market maker list that OTC Markets published, the link to which you posted.

[CyberCall™]

DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER CASSIE. THAT IS FINRA'S LIST. FINRA REGULATES OTCMARKETS.COM, AND IF OTCMARKETS.COM WANTS TO PUBLISH A LIST OF MARKET MAKERS ON THEIR WEBSITE THAT ARE WILLING TO TAKE ON RISK, WELL, I GUESS THAT IS THEIR CALL.

YOU KNOW, CASSIE,,,,,I LEARNED A VERY LONG TIME AGO.

IT IS NOT WHAT YOU KNOW, BUT WHO YOU KNOW THAT WILL GET YOU PLACES.

ANYHEW, THAT IS A COOL LIST. I THINK MY MARKET MAKER BUDDY SHOULD BE ADDED TO THAT LIST, BECAUSE HE LOVES TO HELP HONEST GOOD HARD WORKING FOLK.

CHEERS~!

[Cassandra]

Interesting list. Delaney Equity Capital, LLC and its founder/CEO currently have a current FINRA disciplinary action against them for multiple violations including assisting in the illegal sale of over a billion unregistered, non-exempt shares of various PK clients of Big Apple Consulting.

http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=82762356

[CyberCall™]

CASSIE, THANKS FOR THE PM. FYI, HERE IS A GOOD LINK FOR ANY COMPANY THAT WISHES TO FIND A SPONSOR MM TO GET OFF THE GREYS:

http://www.otcmarkets.com/content/doc/211MarketMakers.pdf

[DragonBear]

Do we have statistics for...

previously suspended Grey stocks and:

1. The percent which subsequently post a Form 10?

2. The percent where the SEC subsequently gives indication there were stock structure problems. Where stock structure problems is defined as anything ranging from bogus issuing to CEOs (and friends) making massive dumps, after awarding themselves huge amounts of stock?

Currently the SEC is suggesting I apply for a freedom of information for #2... which I just might.

3. The percent which are essential one man shops? Where if the company fires the CEO who committed fraud in order to continue as a company... they can't, because the CEO is the company!

It's really sad all the false hope, and pumping on these stocks after the fact.

[janice shell]

That could be it. Not having a very good day on the TSX:

http://tmx.quotemedia.com/quote.php?qm_symbol=LSL

[Cassandra]

LBSV also trades on the TSX (LSL.to).

The daily volume traded post-suspension is substantially lower than the pre-suspension volumes:

[TenKay]

It was trading on TSX as well and resumed trading there, but went to the greys in the US. I wonder if the activity on the TSX could be driving some of the activity on the greys?

It is an odd one.

[lucky, mydog]

i don't either. something is very strange about lbsv.

[janice shell]

Hmmmm... Then I don't get it...

[lucky, mydog]

IHub's quote server irritatingly sees them as whole new issues when they begin trading on the Greys.

not so. here's kmag for example.

http://ih.advfn.com/p.php?pid=historical&symbol=KMAG

[janice shell]

Ooops, you're right. It closed at $1.55 the day before the suspension:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=LBSV+Historical+Prices

IHub's quote server irritatingly sees them as whole new issues when they begin trading on the Greys.

[lucky, mydog]

i thought it was 1.49 or something close to that. any idea why the ihub history only shows history from the resumption of trading? same with the charts.

[janice shell]

No, I don't think it is.

[lucky, mydog]

it is weird, however it is still down from its pre suspension price.

[janice shell]

Yes, that's a very interesting case. I've never seen one like it. I wonder if it'll last.

[Lighthouse]

Anyone who thinks Greys don't do volume look at LBSV...$161,000 worth of trading today and up 15%...

[Renee]

GAFC, EPIX, ENLU, DMNM, DIOMQ were reinstated to trade on the Grey Sheets October 11.

PPS at time of Suspension, Sept 27:

GAFC: .0055
EPIX: .0015
ENLU: .0005
DMNM: .029
DIOMQ: .0005

[Crazy Money]

Mistruthzzz peace

[sidedraft]

Of the 11 stocks that have traded, or were revoked, since their suspension, here's the picture:  
  
 Symbol	  P/L	        % P/L  
  CHMO	($1,000.00)	-100.00% Revoked two days after suspension  
  SMNG	($666.67)	-66.67%  
  SAVW	($69.77)	-6.98%  
  SDRG	($846.15)	-84.62%  
  AERN	($363.64)	-36.36%  
  TWWI	($900.00)	-90.00%  
  DYMTF	($249.99)	-25.00%  
  MIKP	($850.00)	-85.00%  
  KMAG	($785.71)	-78.57%  
  SGLN	 $333.33 	 33.33%  
  GTGP	($784.75)	-78.49%  
  		  
  Average($562.12)	-56.21%  
   
 The P/L assumes $1,000 of each stock was purchased the last trading day possible prior to suspension.

[Crazy Money]

It may not be .0001 but it will end up with no volume... basically the same thing ... GTGP has many people there still buyin' to try to move it up... they were doin' the same thing at $1+ . probably the same people over and over and over again buying more and more and more and never selling

[phillyfan25]

So then it can be done. I will sleep easy this weekend knowing that I have a 1 in 1000000 of seeing some of my money again.

[Cassandra]

Will all find .0001 death beds?

No. Many just dry up before trading gets anywhere near that.

A lot of $ went into GTGP today.

The following article explains why some investors buy suspended stocks once they open on the grey market. IMO, it's throwing good money after bad.

SEC Suspends Supatcha Resources – Investors Consider Grey Market Options

December 17, 2010
By The Our-Street Team

As we predicted, the SEC stepped in this morning and suspended trading on Supatcha Resources (OTCBB: SAEI) crushing the hopes of even die-hard investors. Over the course of the next 10 trading days, investors who failed to heed our warning will consider their options for when the stock can resume trading on the infamous grey market. Having witnessed literally many hundreds of trading suspensions over the past 22 years, I will share with you, my readers, a secret grey market trading tip that I has never, to my knowledge, been revealed anywhere else.

You see, there’s going to be one final opportunity for a few shareholders who got caught by surprise by the trading suspension and didn’t get a chance to liquidate over the past few days. These would be the folks who were trapped in a mine somewhere or climbing Mount Everest and didn’t have access to a stock ticker with news. It could also be folks who were on a pleasure cruise on that river in Egypt. Regardless of how they got caught holding the bag, when Supatcha Resources stock resumes trading, there will be a few days where this short lived strength in the stock exist. I’ve dubbed this secret trend “Liquidating into stupid.”

Liquidating into stupid occurs when some shareholders, unable to accept the reality, actually buy more shares at the reopen in order to bolster their hopes that it’s all a big mistake and that things will get better someday. I’ve seen this occur over and over again and theres a good chance it will happen here too. This is demonstrated by an unexplained willingness of the market to absorb sell orders at prices that seem to the rational person to be too high. I’ve even seen cases where the stock actually trades briefly higher than it was when it was suspended. Naturally, the liquidating into stupid effect is short lived as the number of active buyers rapidly dwindles while the number of folks trying to liquidate increases so hesitation can be costly.

Disclosure: Never have owned Suptacha and never will. Also, have no financial interest in the company whatsoever.

http://our-street.com/2010/12/17/sec-suspends-supatcha-resources-investors-consider-grey-market-options/

[Hardwood]

Will all find .0001 death beds? A lot of $ went into GTGP today.

[21ZNA9]

Nice on it right now. Much appreciated.

[sidedraft]

Using "site:sec.gov no action letter" showed them up.
The option of starting a search entry with "site:domain" is a very helpful filter.

[21ZNA9]

Thanks for the link sidedraft.

[janice shell]

I think in order to get a letter, you have to request it. But not doing so wouldn't mean that they'd go ahead with an enforcement action, necessarily.

[janice shell]

I don't know. None of those would apply to most Pinky suspensions...

But there's an interesting one involving Facebook, from back in 2008:

http://www.sec.gov/divisions/corpfin/cf-noaction/2008/facebook101408-12gh.htm

[Cassandra]

The EMGE letter is from the Miami Regional Office which may be why it is not found in the central data base.
https://www.otciq.com/otciq/ajax/showFinancialReportById?id=55467

It appears that companies request these letters to be issued. I wonder how often the SEC issues them without a request.

[sidedraft]

Gives more flavor to the whole No-Action buffet.

[sidedraft]

I thought that I had put this link in a previous post, but it got lost:

http://www.sec.gov/interps/noaction.shtml

Maybe this parent page would get to better places?