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lol, yes. And they did go on to sue him.
But that letter does contain this line:
EMGE isn't on that list. Maybe it's in some way different, or limited to certain types of letters.
Interestingly, the first specific letter they link to is NOT a no-action letter. They say they can't make any promises.
http://www.sec.gov/divisions/marketreg/mr-noaction/2012/jwolfson072612-15b6.pdf
Very helpful links to find SEC "No Action" letters:
http://www.sec.gov/divisions/marketreg/mr-noaction.shtml
Thank you sidedraft for this excellent research!!!
Alphabetical list from within your link:
http://www.sec.gov/divisions/marketreg/mr-noaction.shtml#alpha
Chronological list: http://www.sec.gov/divisions/marketreg/mr-noaction.shtml#exorders
Here is what I found:
http://www.sec.gov/divisions/marketreg/mr-noaction.shtml
Or this page might get more results:
http://www.sec.gov/divisions/marketreg/mr-noaction.shtml
I guess it's up to the company to release them or not.
I don't think so Janice. I found a link to it here:
http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/EMGE/news/Home-Country-News-Release---SEC-Completed-Investigation?id=32849&b=y
The no action letter is interesting. Is there any central database for those things?
What made EMGE unique among suspended PKs is that the SEC issued a "no action" letter after concluding the investigation, which involved a third party doing a "pump and dump" of its stock. The third party was sued along with the other company involved in the P&D.
Despite being restored to PK status, volume never really picked back up. Perhaps the taint of the investigation and suspension did it in. Historical trade data.
Timeline and document links:
9/30/2009: SEC Suspension
5/4/2010: Litigation filed against Seven Palms Investments, LLC. EMGE not named as a defendant.
7/8/2010: SEC "no action" letter
2/28/2011: Quotation on Pink Sheets restored
Being restored to PK status didn't really help the shareholders.
I don't think they've been diluting; the float is tiny. And they only have 50 million shares authorized:
http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/EMGE/company-info
thanks, was wondering if they diluted in the meantime or reversed. Sometimes takes so damn long to look through filings....
It was actually about a year and a half. They describe it here:
http://www.otcmarkets.com/financialReportViewer?symbol=EMGE&id=41651
They aren't doing very well; barely trade.
http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/EMGE/chart
EMGE- this apparently got reinstated after three years after being halted. Any idea how the shareholders faired?
Not a problem, he showed his ignorance when he claimed the OTC was in fact an exchange. I don't think anyone else had a problem with it except him for some reason as he tried implying MIKP was now an exchange listed security currently traded on the NASDAQ.
Thank you very much Cassandra. More education today.
FINRA owns the OTCBB, not NASDAQ. You can enter any symbol, including for a grey market stock, and see the trades that have been reported to the SRO, which is FINRA.
http://www.otcbb.com/asp/Info_Center.asp
You can even do the same on the NASDAQ website, altough it doesn't report out to sub-pennies. Notice that MIKP is shown as "Other OTC," which is the grey market.
http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/mikp
The quote and trade info is all feeding off of the same data, just all of the other financial websites like Yahoo! MSN, OTC Markets and even iHub use in reporting quotes and trades.
FWIW, FINRA (fka NASD) founded NASDAQ, which is currently owned by NASDAQ OMX Group.
BigBake, I apologize to you for getting you into that conversation over at MIKP. Seems like it kind of went into the crapper.
Thanks Janice. More information in my ongoing education.
OTCMarkets is a quotation service. It doesn't trade stocks.
Thanks. More info in my ongoing education on how all of this works.
All OTC securities are fed through at the NASDAQ, that is the exchange that displays such trading information and that is where the data feed is provided from.
But MIKP is in fact an OTC security and currently a grey sheet security.
BigBake, this one is for you. What do you make of this?
Thanks Lucky & Janice, Apologies...
It was my last post of the day yesterday, and I went back and forth trying to decide the best fit. Do I go about requesting it be moved to the other forum?
Also, thanks Lucky for the previous well wishes. Still shell shocked, but dealing with it because it is what it is.
May write out my frustrations of trading on the Greys and post here later on sometime.
Hope all is well.
Five stocks came off their 9/18 suspension today, but none of them traded:
http://ih.advfn.com/p.php?pid=pf_summary&p=2
FWIW, ENWN is a longtime dormant stock, no trades since May of '09.
The whole thing would be a mess...
I am laughing so hard my screen is shaking....
I also have MANY comments.
good post mr. willis, but it might be more appropriate on the following board. you can ask janice her opinion there.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/DD-Support-Board-and-Fraud-Research-Team-19670/
Janice, About Dividends/Distributions...
Saw your GTGP post: http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=80069810
You likely are aware,... just thought in sharing some info concerning dividends/distributions that is interesting. The GTGP/GTHI dividend or, more correctly, the distribution issue appears to be somewhat more than a paperwork problem.
SEC and FINRA have additional regulations that appear to confirm that the rumored distribution of GTHI stock is misinformation provided to the, “December 2011 Divvie-Crew,” (yeah, I’m one).
From a FINRA document: http://www.finra.org/web/groups/industry/@ip/@reg/@notice/documents/notices/p003997.pdf
“... subparagraph of Rule 11140, provides that for dividends or distributions that are 25% or greater of the value of the subject security, the ex-date shall be the first business day following the payable date.”
From an SEC document: http://www.sec.gov/answers/dividen.htm
"Sometimes a company pays a dividend in the form of stock rather than cash. The stock dividend may be additional shares in the company or in a subsidiary being spun off. The procedures for stock dividends may be different from cash dividends. The ex-dividend date is set the first business day after the stock dividend is paid (and is also after the record date)."
The FINRA doc appears to put a sticky wicket into the GTHI distribution, especially the distributed stock sp valuation, and ex-date of any distribution. The SEC doc affirms the ex-date issue. Appears to indicate, in GTGP's situation, that unless valuation of the distributed stock is less than 25% value of GTGP stock, everyone of record on the actual day of dividend/distribution payable date will receive the distribution. Sounds good for current GTGP commons. Well, heck yeah! But, is it realistic?
Just for a moment, let’s forget the paperwork issue and try to do some distribution.
First, have to price GTHI just right. Let’s see, GTGP sp is what it is (0.08 as of this posting), so our distributed stock sp for GTHI must be less than one-quarter of the value of GTGP's sp value, or the Divvie-Crew will no longer be “special” recipients. The Divvie-Crew needs to stay special. Let’s try to push it through and see...
Uh Oh! Wait! Now holders of GTHI are saying it is unfair to pass out shares, one-for-one, to those Grey stock people, by making GTHI sp worth one-quarter of GTGP's sp value. Who? What holders of GTHI? Why, the sellers of MSE, and now GTHI’s majority holder (best guess info). No shareholder would want their stock to be valued at one-quarter of the price, and give it away one-for-one. Majority holder nixes the deal because of unfair valuation and dilution. Nice thing about it for JF, he can point the finger at those evil majority holders of GTHI.
It appears the GTGP, “December 2011 Divvie-Crew,” was misled from the get-go.
well they are in a sad bit of inexperienced denail. WHen FINRA sees the 211 (if ever) they will laugh so hard the screens will shake! Can you say never ending comments???
Speaking of companies that just don't get it ... this from the SMNG website --
Text book description of what is expected and really those three are following the pattern we'd expect. This will probably reflect, as time goes on, that the first two days are the ones that people should concentrate on getting out of their investment. It also reinforces that it doesn't matter what "pumpers" or "bashers" say or post the market and economic theorems take over.
As they progress daily, those 3 charts of formerly very active stocks should be instructive as to what really happens when a stock is relegated to the grey market after an SEC suspension.
Liquidity (volume) is usually best on the day trading resumes after the suspension, even though the price is usually dramatically lower. The share price might show occasional improvement on lower volume down the road, but with severely reduced liquidity. In some cases, the stock opens at or near the former trading range because of GTC orders placed before the suspension.
Several of the 16 stocks have not traded at all since the mass suspension ended. They represent what often happens to less actively traded suspended stocks.
Hopefully shareholders of stocks suspended in the future will learn from these charts and know what to expect when trading resumes after the suspension and how best to manage their holdings.
A couple had the "second day bump" on reduced volume. Been pretty much textbook except did not expect such a big drop in GTGP so quickly.
not a halted one for certain
Please name one market maker that will file a 15c211 for a grey sheet shell? There are none.
typically now mmers are requiring that the filing companies use their own TA to recoup some costs of the filing work.
I think there's pressure from all sides. OTCMarkets says they'll help, but of course they'd rather have the companies go to the OTCQB tier, because that way they'll have to pay more.
It's my understanding that private companies looking to go public via an ordinary new Pink are having trouble in recent years finding an MM to sponsor them. That's one of the reason that so many private companies that want to go public on the PK OTC market purchase a shell that already has piggyback 15c2-11 qualification with which to do a reverse merger (RM).
It can be cheaper to purchase a shell with piggyback rights than to pay attorneys and accountants to do the actual work required for the new company to qualify for 15c2-11 on its own.
Yes. It would say that the SEC doesn't intend to bring any further enforcement action.
ah.. just a walk in the park i see lol
So, ..for starters, a 'no action' letter from the SEC would be the 1st major hurdle for one of these prior suspended co's? and that would essentially say no other investigation is happening?
Yes. EMGE. It took them a year and a half. This is what they had to do:
http://www.otcmarkets.com/financialReportViewer?symbol=EMGE&id=41651
has there ever been a former 10 day suspended GS company that got MM support back again?
Even ordinary Pinks don't have major problems finding an MM to file a Form 211. OTCMarkets is willing to make introductions.
But they won't touch a company that's in trouble with the SEC.
Good point regarding filing Form 211 for legitimate companies listing on NASDAQ or an exchange, but not a significant incentive for former PK companies suspended by the SEC that may have future SEC litigation or administrative proceedings and probably little demand for the stock.
also, as a way of off setting their filing costs, once that 211 is approved, the market maker gets a 30 day exclusive before other mm's can piggyback.
ok.. now that makes sense. thanks much.
It's not just the risk liability, but the cost. There is no upside for them or reason to pay the cost for a non-reporting former PK.
MMs will often sponsor a company for their initial 15c2-11 qualification when that company is moving from initial grey market to an exchange or even if it is going to the OTCBB as a fully SEC-reporting company. That's because the company itself has had attorneys and accountants prepare a registration statement that meets all of the requirements of Rule 15c2-11 so the MM is able to rely on certain exemptions and not incur the costs or risks.
A PK stock that became GM after a suspension MIGHT also qualify for such exemptions if they submited to the SEC a registration statement prepared by an SEC-licensed attorney and an SEC-qualified auditor. However, unless the the company had received a specific no-action letter, an SEC investigation could be ongoing which the company, the attorney, auditor and sponsoring MM know nothing about.
FINRA needs to approve the Form 211 and is privy to SEC investigations and findings. A lot of work and expense could be done only to be denied FINRA approval due to SEC or its own concerns.
For all intents and purposes, MMs don't independantly sponsor companies for Rule 15c2-11 compliance, despite claims to the contrary by CEOs of suspended PK ==> GM companies.
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