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Oliviapaqu Allways nice to see some new posters here welcome My friend feel free to post any info you find.
oh yea! love it. this IS the new frontier, why not make some coin on it.
The only board where people don't roll their eyes if you post "TO DA MOOOOOOOOON"
great, thanks for the info. i'm new here and every bit of info helps.
hi all, i'm soooo glad i found this board. i think its cool, "lunar mining". puts a whole new meaning to "this stock will take off"!!! doing my DD. hope to chat with you fine lunar people.
Canadian light-rover program for moon and mars exploration, contracts issued...
http://www.moondaily.com/reports/BRP_To_Contribute_To_Canadian_Moon_And_Mars_Exploration_Programs_999.html
It was a live feed of a formal announced //ELON MUSK CEO OF SPACEX
Thanks, I thought they had put out a vid. I don't even bother to look at them as I can't hear them LOL.
Go to SpaceX .com and look at the Heavy lift specs. It spells out Capacities and sched. //Let Me know if you need more info//We will get you updated ASAP
my computer doesn't have sound, can you elaborate? Is this in the name of a government or a private business venture?
Spacedaily is mucked up, or my computer is...articles lose the scroll-bar as they load.
Mars here we come !!!!!
http://discovery.nasa.gov/m3.cfml Great site check it for info
That surely would be something big right
http://www.spacex.com/ Look here for something BIG COMING 4-5-11 I wish I could tell You what it is but ...
Article about non-rocket space launch proposals, some far out of reach with current levels of technoledgy and materials.
Wikipedia,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-rocket_spacelaunch
I saw. They never did reach escape velocity on either but, seems they were on a track.
In the SHARP project the propellent wasn't cordite or solid-fuels.
Methane was ignited, compressing a light-gas Via piston, overcoming a mechanical-coupling holding the projectile in place, in an evacuated chamber/barrel. The barrel-end was capped by plastic-seal that bursts on impact.
....Mach 8.8 speeds, but alot of friction from air once it left the barrel.
I guess I was wrong.
Cool. That is one big gun. Interesting termination of his life's work also.
In addition to HARP was the SHARP, super-high altitude project.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_High_Altitude_Research_Project
I looked at WiKi, small article there on HARP launcher.
Gerald Bull, a canadian artillery engineer was involved...Mr. Bull assisted the Iraqui's with various military projects and also Shaddam...someone took offense and he was terminated-with-extreme-prejudice while in germany.
HARP, on WiKipedia,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_HARP
Really? I thought there was a limit to what you could do with a cannon. Strength of the metal for the size explosion you would need to propel an object fast enough for escape velocity. You may be right. I haven't heard this one (lol other than in that real old movie).
You know they used to/or still are shooting small instruments Via giant cannons? The electronics are embedded/potted in epoxy to survive the incredible G-forces involved.
On an island they were doing this, nieghbors were getting windows shattered by the muzzle-blast from these guns...miles away!
Yes Virgin Galatic has been working towards that goal as we speak so they work on this project
!!A new way to drill for oil!!
Well isn't Virgin working on it for example? I think if you could overcome the costs of a launch, the rest would be much cheaper. Maybe government building the launch systems being talked about here, and charging launch fees to companies.
Yes I agree and My next post was about that But I still need some more DD if You have any please share THANX
I want to know Myself $$$ talks and BS walks so to speak
Yes but if you could just get it into a moderate orbit, you could adjust with fuel later. It would take a lot less to move to a higher orbit if that initail just getting there was taken care of.
17,000+MPH, a mass of 500 pounds would make quite a splash. To say the least i would not want to be on the recieving end if you know what I mean
I like how private corporations are putting their toes in the water. If it becomes cheap enough that a company or group of companies can have a fleet without governments and their hot and cold budgetary cycles. There would be the revolutionary change.
I believe its on topic, and my guess it would depend on 2 things, how massive was the load,...and at what point of the acceleration it was when the wheels came off!
Speed of launch would be determined by what kind of placement/orbit was required. Even at the low-end requirements of 17,000+MPH, a mass of 500 pounds would make quite a splash.
LOL just don't let the government do it. Not only will it face the wrong way, it most likely will point down.
Off Topic but what happens when the trag, is out of alinement ...Ouch
A proposal I saw, years ago..a LOONG railgun setup on/near the equator. (And the proposed railgun was 1000 meters or a mile long..can't remember.)
Launching from the equator gives additional speed/velocity, rotation of the earth assists (Provided the guns pointed the right way, lol.)
The demand for sulfates and lithium is likely to build as innovations in lithium ion phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries are developed. The next S-Curve will undoubtedly trade rare earths in favor for lightweight and robust super-capacitors suitable for the Electric batteries increases // And their uses increase
I think we are really about to witness a revolutionary change coming as far as spaceflight and space colonies in our lifetime // I am still reaserching Your idea about railgun lift offs and propulsion in order to move massive craft to the moon //Very cool idea My friend //Also for return trips to Low Earth orbit awesome concept
It does. Certain items, valves could need replacing...and the "used" valves could perhaps tested 'till failure...giving additional data of MBF's meantime before failures of parts that have already been flown.
I see that SpaceX has been designing its spacecraft using tried and tested tech . that is built using multi flight tech built in in order to reuse modules and rocket engines etc... if possible It surely makes sense to Me
I noticed the article about the Orion mentioned, that even though the spacecraft its self was a 1 time use due to stress on structure...many of the other parts (Avionics) could be reutilised.
It only makes sense to Me think ahead use components for use in present sat. and orbital telescopes etc... That can be used later on Lunar surface designed to be reused kinda like interchageable auto parts of course on a grander scale
'Zactly, Future spacecraft components may even be designed with materials that are rare to lunar ores, in an effort to provide recoverable materials needed to expand lunar-infrastructure.
...Even if the only recipients are robotic factories/miners on the moon.
The article also makes a passing mention of utilizing the lunar resources to return to earth to clean space-debris...a laudable project that never crossed my mind...a sensible goal, and something that must be dealt with. (And sooner the better.) I say We need a cleanup program with a possible recycle of parts and scrap as a resource awaiting re use Why not ? Robots, mining machinery Etc...
"No one willing to foot the bill..." But all are willing to reap the gains, I'll bet...
The article also makes a passing mention of utilizing the lunar resources to return to earth to clean space-debris...a laudable project that never crossed my mind...a sensible goal, and something that must be dealt with. (And sooner the better.)
FEATURE
Mining the Moon
How the extraction of lunar hydrogen or ice could fuel humanity's expansion into space
By William Stone / June 2009
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Image: Jason Lee
This is part of IEEE Spectrum's Special Report: Why Mars? Why Now?
Planetary geologists speculate that the moon’s polar craters may hold billions of tons of hydrogen, perhaps even in the form of water ice. Intriguing evidence returned by the Lunar Prospector and the Clementine probes in the 1990s seemed to support this idea. The latest raft of lunar missions, including Chandrayaan-1 and the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, may confirm it. In situ prospecting could then determine the quantity, quality, and accessibility of the hydrogen.
Discovering rich concentrations of hydrogen on the moon would open up a universe of possibilities—literally. Rocket fuels and consumables that now cost an average of US $10 000 per kilogram to loft could instead be produced on the moon much more cheaply. For the first time, access to space would be truly economical. At last, people would be able to begin new ventures, including space tourism, space-debris cleanup, satellite refueling, and interplanetary voyages.
Lunar prospecting will cost a lot of money—perhaps $20 billion over a decade. Rovers would have to descend into the polar craters to sample the deposits and test for ice, and then move on to other spots to form an overall map, much as wildcatters do every day in oil fields.
At the moment, no country seems eager to foot the bill. But where governments fail to act on a vitally important opportunity, the private sector can and should step in.
Two years ago, I and a group of like-minded businessmen, expeditionary explorers, and space-systems managers and engineers formed the Shackleton Energy Co. in Del Valle, Texas, to conduct lunar prospecting. Should we find significant reserves of ice, we would then establish a network of refueling service stations in low Earth orbit and on the moon to process and provide fuel and consumables. Like modern highway service stations, these celestial stations would be able to refuel space vehicles of all kinds and would be positioned at key transportation nodes; an obvious spot would be near the International Space Station.
Such stations would radically change the way nearly every space system is designed. No longer would you have to carry your fuel and water into orbit with you. Entirely new classes of space vehicles would become possible, ones that operate only at and beyond low Earth orbit, such as vehicles for orbital transfer and satellite repair. Today launch systems must be designed to withstand the punishing effects of high-speed atmospheric drag, pressure, vibration, and heating that occur on the way to space. Protecting the rocket and its payload adds enormously to launch costs. But a vehicle that is designed from the start to operate only in space—say, between low Earth orbit and the moon—is not bound by the same design rules.
We would also be able to clear up the ever-growing space debris problem. There’d be plenty of fuel for maneuvering satellites and other spacecraft to avoid debris, and you could also deploy cleanup vehicles to remove obsolete materials from orbit. Within a decade or two, we would soon see the dawn of a new age of space exploration, space tourism, and space business ventures.
So where exactly is the raw material, and how will we retrieve it? The most likely place to look is within the regolith—the loose surface material—at the bottom of lunar craters, such as Shackleton Crater at the moon’s south pole. The cold interior of this crater may act as a trap that captures volatiles like water and hydrogen, which scientists believe may have been shed by comets and asteroids that collided with the moon. In the 1990s, the Lunar Prospector spacecraft sensed unexpectedly high amounts of hydrogen in the polar regions, which may indicate the presence of water ice. NASA has considered Shackleton Crater as the site for the first lunar outpost under its Constellation program, which envisions returning astronauts to the moon by 2020.
Assuming the ice exists and can be extracted, our plan calls for establishing a fuel-processing operation on the lunar surface. The first step would be to melt the ice and purify the water. Next, we’d electrolyze the water into gaseous hydrogen and oxygen, and then condense the gases into liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen and also process them into hydrogen peroxide, all of which could be used as rocket fuels. Should other volatiles like ammonia or methane be discovered, they, too, would be processed into fuel, fertilizer, and other useful products.
Getting the fuels and other consumables from the moon into low Earth orbit will be relatively cheap. Because of the peculiarities of celestial mechanics, such a haul requires just 1/14th to 1/20th of the fuel it takes to bring material up from Earth.
Prospecting within the crater won’t be easy, of course. It’s extremely cold (a steady -173 °C) and perpetually dark—like an Antarctic winter but worse, because it’s constant. Also, the moon’s low gravitational field makes excavating that much trickier than it is back on Earth. Our plan therefore calls for developing a new generation of highly reliable, human-tended robotic machinery that would be built to withstand even that harsh environment. We think it can be done. We won’t know unless we try.
Three elements are essential for the commercial success of our operation.
First, to save about $1 billion during the initial staging of the lunar mining base, the first human team will take only enough fuel to land and establish the base—not enough for a return trip to Earth. This may sound radical, but the human crew who will undertake this mission will do so knowing that their success and survival depend on in situ fuel generation for the return. Should they fail, theirs will be a one-way trip; the risk is theirs to take. For government-sponsored space agencies, such a concept is unthinkable; they cannot tolerate the political risk of failure. Yet it is the only viable business choice. Centuries of explorers made the same hard choice in pushing the limits on land, sea, and air. It’s time to carry it forward into space. This is not reckless bravado but calculated risk management to satisfy mission needs and affordability.
Second, we need a relatively inexpensive means of returning to low Earth orbit. To do that involves the dissipation of nearly 3 kilometers per second of excess velocity. Decelerating with rocket propellant alone would be prohibitively expensive—we’d be ”eating the seed corn.” So we plan to do it with actively controlled aerobraking. The water-laden spacecraft will repeatedly dip into and skip out of the upper atmosphere, losing some velocity with each dip, until it ultimately ends up in the orbit of the fueling station. This same maneuver was previously used only for much smaller planetary robotic missions, such as Magellan and the Mars Global Surveyor, but the physics and engineering are well understood. We intend to take the concept to an industrial scale, which would have obvious applications for other space missions.
Third, we plan to rely on inflatable structures. Constructed of multilayer fabrics shielded with Kevlar or other strong materials and banded by steel exoskeletons, these structures could provide most of our habitation, storage, and transportation requirements. They would be both lighter and less expensive than traditional spacecraft. A number of companies have done extensive R&D on such inflatable space structures, including Boeing and Bigelow Aerospace, which has even lofted two test modules to low Earth orbit.
Reliance on such technologies will decrease the cost of our operation, but it still will not be cheap. We estimate that establishing a lunar mining outpost and low-Earth-orbit fueling network will cost about $20 billion and take about a decade to put in place. That may sound like a lot, but in terms of complexity it’s comparable to a North Sea oil production complex. And it’s just a third of what the state-owned oil company Saudi Aramco said it will spend on oil and gas projects over the next five years.
We live in interesting times. Right now, the technology, opportunity, and need to undertake such a mission are converging. Global tensions over resources, energy, and the environmental balance will only intensify in the coming years. New technologies may solve some of these problems, but ultimately we must look further afield for answers.
The Shackleton project offers a solution. We seek the boldest and most imaginative managers, policy makers, investors, engineers, and explorers to partner with us and to ignite the Earth-moon economy. It is time for the private sector to take the lead in creating new markets and expanding humanity’s presence in space. Governments cannot and will not do it by themselves anytime soon. Our company is prepared to open up space to those who have the vision, stamina, and wherewithal to make it a reality. Join us!
For more articles, go to Special Report: Why Mars? Why Now?
About the Author
William Stone is an aerospace engineer and explorer. He serves as the chairman of Shackleton Energy Co., based in Del Valle, Texas.
TAGS: Bill Stone // Shackleton Energy Company // Shackleton crater // William Stone // aerospace // lunar exploration // lunar ice // lunar mining // lunar prospecting // moon mining // space exploration // space flight
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/03/22/orion-moon-craft-unveiled-new-spaceflight-facility/ Another New lunar lander
Welcome all. A place to discuss and share resources about utilizing construction materials found "in situ" on the moon. Any and all dicussions related to utilizing resources that abound in the solar-system are welcome, the main premise here should be, that we boost to space what few tools we need to develop those "In Situ" resources and "Bootsrap"the rest .
ZOOMABLE Images of the Whole nearside of the moon-mosaic.
http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/lroc_browse/view/wac_nearside
And the rest of the galleries for LROC,
http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/lroc
Links to late-breaking news, about lunarmining, moon-exploration and space research..at MoonDaily, moontoday and others to come, as I find them.
Some of the sources available might be those that have been launched already (Spacejunk sattilites and such) and are simply a hazard to other orbital endeavors. One way to make use of the "Spacejunk", could involve sending batches of tiny drones in a single launch that could find and attach to the larger items in orbit. These drones would utilise a low impulse ion drive to overtake the junk, attach by grapple or other means. Once attached, could fire a high-impulse rocket, (Solid-fuel, or liquid-fuel with a solid oxidizer.)
Don't be afraid to throw new stuff up here!...ANYthing that gets us out there and mining is accepted here. New drives and propellants. Self-replicating machines. New reactors for energy to drive mining/manufactoring equipment. Fusion advances. Autonomous manufactoring/mining equiptment.....Use your imagination!
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/space/moon-mars/4264325
Farside picture from NASA,
...More moon photos, various timelines.
Link to pictures of luna rock/soils thin-sectioned under microscope,
http://minerva.union.edu/hollochk/c_petrology/moon_rocks/index.htm
Information of space news and research can be found at Colony Worlds website, ...Courtesy of Admiral Lagrange.
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