iHub Investor Relations Professional (IRP)/Commercial Users Program

[Mr. Zen]

If I joined the IRP program not only would I disclose my company website but that would disclose the other ventures I am working on as they are all on my web site, from that information anyone would have my home address and my name from the SEC filings I am involved in... so yes the risk is quite high that some unstable individual would and could use me as the scapegoat for their failings.
On the other side of that any private placements I do with individuals know my complete personal information up front and those do not worriy me, accredited investors are usually more stable, if they are not they have the means to buy a tank or a case of stinger missiles.

read the disclaimer on my i-hub web page, it spells out my stand on this IRP program as it now stands

http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/board.aspx?board_id=3915

P.S. I fly to Alaska tomorrow on a mission so this conversation is about over for at least 2 weeks if not more.

[Zorax]

EDIT**Well, allow me to ask you one final question...

If you were to accept ihubs IRP program, pay the fee and post your disclosures, would you use your real name?

Does it seem odd, that the majority of promoters use aliases?

**One problem, the IRP program is made up 95% by stock hustlers, not designated individuals selected by the CEO of public companies.

Again, the problem with that statement is, if the ceo is shown to be dirty, what does that say about anyone he would designate ... see the gist of the thought? Credibility is a tough sale on a public forum, and the closest we get is to judge the VERACITY of posts, not the poster.

[Mr. Zen]

ok I can agree with that statement

I think the very fact that one would pay a fee AND disclose puts them way higher than non disclosed or non paying irps.

One problem, the IRP program is made up 95% by stock hustlers, not designated individuals selected by the CEO of public companies.

I do not see one Investor Relations individual hired by a CEO on the IRP program, they just do not want to be apart of this slug fest or improve it.

[Stock]

Definitely for The Mob.

It's for the best.

[Mr. Zen]

For who, you? or the mob of hustlers currently making up 95% of the IRP program that have no conscience or SEC regulations that they have to abide by.

The IRP program needs oversight from someone with a vision and someone that also understands the public market place in depth.

There is a big difference between keeping messages on target to the subject and understanding what the subject is all about in depth and how it effects the industry. Currently keeping messages on target is the only mandate.

[Zorax]

It is what it is, we just have to live with it or go silent and move on.

Oh the irony....that is what every admin has said in one way or another many many times on Ihub...

Here's a last different example by me from a 'user' angle...Although I agree with your sentiment, I feel ihub looks at a general picture most the time.
EX:
I'm a random reader who hits a link from a search engine, stock xxzz and it directs me to that ihub board...I see an 8k and a PR and a 10K plus a shareholder letter. I don't look who posted it, the 8k and PR by pumpnose and the 10K and letter by you. To me its just 4 things to read. I may never come back. Did it matter who posted it? Would anyone CARE who posted it the first few times they visited the site?

I don't search stocks by promoter/irp name.

People who pay to be members and even non paying members such as myself come to care in time...

I also believe advfn/ihub thinks they have to define this stock site in the first handful of clicks, so your depth may not come in to play until one commits to the site.

I think the very fact that one would pay a fee AND disclose puts them way higher than non disclosed or non paying irps.

eom

[Stock]

Silence might be best.

[Mr. Zen]

Interesting concept and I can understand the thinking behind it.

My cause was that I just wanted a more detailed IRP proigram so that professionals were seperated from promotors but it is not going to happen.

I-hub does a great job at policing the message boards with their lieutenants but I just think there are no captains or generals at the helm who have the market depth or vision to carry this company past the penny stock hustler fest that it has currently fallen to.

It is what it is, we just have to live with it or go silent and move on.

[Zorax]

anarchy on top of sleese ball promoters, yea that will give Investors Hub lots of respect.


...and another country heard from...

By now, have you felt a nagging tug that the IRP program was not to help members sell their wares and protect themselves,... but the experiment as it was called by some, was really advfn/ihubs real intent to protect advfn/ihub FROM the very members who peddle scams ... by the very enactment of the "IRP" or officially 'Ihub Investors Relations Professional Program.

Admin has no reason to be upset at this post as advfn/ihub HAS to do what it takes to protect themselves... so having a IRP program in place and available in their terms of operations probably makes sec and whatever lawyer groups to stay off their necks.

So, I submit, it doesn't matter in the bigger picture whether the irp program is a success, just as long as its listed as ongoing for the good of the advfn/ihub organization....

If a member gets in trouble, all advfn needs show is the irp program was there and the member themselves are the blame for not covering THEMSELVES...

[sidedraft]

Except for you last sentence, your argument makes sense.

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

We've already discussed this issue. You brought up another and I responded to that.

"I am begining to wonder whether there is any knoweldge of fundimental market understanding and depth here."

In the same respect, I'm wondering if there is any knowledge of the meaning of the word hypocrisy?

[Mr. Zen]

Shelly why do I have so much trouble with your line of reasoning?

Let me explain this in simplest terms for you..

I want to be an IRP but I do not want to be associated with the class of people you call Investor Relations Professionals, they are not, they are stock promotors, there is a difference... I answer to the SEC and the Vancouver venture exchange for my actions and I am registered with the company I work for, stock promotors are feelance salespeople that move on from company to company after 3 days to 3 weeks in general, some stay for a month or two but not much longer.

All I am asking for is two designations one for Investor Relations and one for Stock Promotors. The can both pay the same fee but they are as different as day and night.

I am begining to wonder whether there is any knoweldge of fundimental market understanding and depth here.

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

Well, he's using the same reasoning you are as to why he doesn't need to be an IRP here. Says he doesn't post about the companies that he's been compensated for here.

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

Ha - I need one, too!

We are not in the "witchnhunt" game.

[Stock]

Does a spellchecker come with the IRP Program?

If so, I should sign the hell up.

Maybe a structed fee for the CEO ($195 more), CFO ($175 more), Sales VP ($125 more), Shipping Clerk ($10 more), Janitor ($5 more)??

Are you the janitor or the CEO? Can we see your key to the Exectuve

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

"and thus far, I've not seen any action taken"

See? You don't know that no action was taken. You're making an assumption here.

"And again, it's as simple as looking into a posters' history and method. Groups travel around this site as if covered by a force field."

No, it's not that simple. Again, that would be making assumptions.

This is the process:

We get a report that someone is an IRP. We ask for something more than "I'm sure of it, look at what he's pumping!".

If we get that, compensation details, emails, etc., then we ask the user.

If the user says "no", then we ask them to confirm for the record with a simple yes or no re: their status as to legal requirements under the Securities Act of 1933 17b. For full disclosure, we explain that this answer will be sent if we ever receive a govt subpoena re: their account.

At this point, they either:

A. Still say no. We note their account and move on.
B. Say yes and sign up for the IRP program.
C. Never reply and are suspended for 999 days (the max the system allows).

I do this lengthy process at least 2x a day every day and I'm only one Admin.

So, while you may not have been trying to offend, I certainly don't appreciate you or anyone making assumptions about the job we do here and then criticizing us based on those assumptions.

[fung_derf]

Shelly, I'm not trying to offend you. I am merely stating what everyone, or at least everyone I feel I can trust, is saying.
I know for fact I've sent you all posters worth looking into, and thus far, I've not seen any action taken. And again, it's as simple as looking into a posters' history and method. Groups travel around this site as if covered by a force field. They sign up at the same time, they travel the same boards.
Whatever, I know I'm wearing out my fingers for nothing.

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

"By doing nothing, you all have chosen to take a stance."

Again, you have no idea what we do or don't do.

[fung_derf]

I think you are missing our point. No one here seems to have a problem with those who expose who they are. However, it's the many, many, MANY others who are hiding in the dark and using Ihub as a manipulation tool.
It's really not that difficult to recognize them. It seems the Ihub stance is, "it's not our job to find out who is legit". By doing nothing, you all have chosen to take a stance.

[Mr. Zen]

Really? I take great exception to those who do this in the shadows under the guise of being "just another User".

http://firstalertstocks.com/Profile.php?ProfileID=42


you know who this is, why do you not do something about him.


I have no problem with a level playing field, or the fee.

[Stock]

There is a huge difference between promotors and company officials

And that is the root of the problem I had hoped would be addressed. Oh well.

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Maybe you were hoping that company officials should be forced to pay some lower amount than $95 a month -- or face the iHub jail?

Like maybe $45? Or $25? Or how about $5 extra?

Maybe a structed fee for the CEO ($195 more), CFO ($175 more), Sales VP ($125 more), Shipping Clerk ($10 more), Janitor ($5 more)??

Are you the janitor or the CEO? Can we see your key to the Exectuve washroom as proof? OH! Wait...that's the supply closet key, so you only owe us five bucks, lol...

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What is an IRP?

IRPs are iHub Members considered to be an Investor Relations Professional. IRPs are professional businesspersons providing investor awareness, investor relations, or any other compensated promotional service or activity relating to a publicly traded stock. IRPs may be compensated by either the public company or some other interested party to provide those services, and include persons who are contracted by other IRPs. iHub considers Members who make posts (both public and private) subject to Section 17(b) of the Securities Act of 1933 to be an IRP. The relevant text of Rule 17(b) is as follows:

It shall be unlawful for any person, by the use of any means or instruments of transportation or communication in interstate commerce or by the use of the mails, to publish, give publicity to, or circulate any notice, circular, advertisement, newspaper, article, letter, investment service, or communication which, though not purporting to offer a security for sale, describes such security for a consideration received or to be received, directly or indirectly, from an issuer, underwriter, or dealer, without fully disclosing the receipt, whether past or prospective, of such consideration and the amount thereof.

IRPs pay a fee as a commercial user of iHub. The base IRP fee is $95 per month per account. This fee is paid in addition to any other base membership or financial content subscription.

Activation of an IRP subscription:

•Allows their personalized IRP page to become visible to other users. This allows the IRP to meet their legally mandated disclosure requirements, and to present their professional credentials and associations.
•Automatically includes a link to their Disclosure/Disclaimer page on each post. They can choose to omit the link on posts where it is not required.
•Enables an icon in the Member's profile indicating their IRP status and leading to their IRP pages.
•Provides visibility to iHub users when content is being provided by a compensated poster.

Any registered member can activate and edit their own IRP pages at any time from their My Account screen. Each user's IRP page will not become visible to other users until they become activated with an initial IRP subscription. Once activated, the IRP Disclosure/Disclaimer page will remain publicly visible. However; there must be an active IRP subscription in force in order for the Member to edit their IRP page and to include the link to their Disclosure/Disclaimer on new posts.

The following IRP icons appear in user profiles:

This Member has an active IRP subscription. They can include their Disclosure/Disclaimer link in new posts. Their IRP page is visible to all users.

This Member has an expired IRP subscription. They cannot include their Disclosure/Disclaimer link in new posts. Their Disclosure/Disclaimer remains visible to users.

The details of an IRP's compensation should be found on their Disclosure/Disclaimer page. IRPs who choose to maintain their information on another web site can either replicate it on their iHub page or provide a link/disclosure to their site. The link to their off-site Disclosure/Disclaimer page must be on their IRP Disclosure/Disclaimer page; it will no longer be allowed in posts or signatures. Similarly, any content and/or links not specifically pertaining to and required by for disclosure/disclaimer is permitted on the Disclosure/Disclaimer page. Content of the Disclosure/Disclaimer page cannot be linked to a site competitive with iHub.

IRPs are permitted to place a link to their iHub Disclaimer page in their signature and/or profile only while they have an active IRP subscription. There should be no disclaimers or links to disclaimers of compensation in signatures, profiles or posts (at the time of posting) by any one who is not an active IRP. IRPs that allow their status to become inactive must immediately remove disclaimers and links to their disclaimer from their current signature and profile. Individual IRP disclaimer pages will always be visible once an IRP account has been activated. The disclaimer icon optionally included inside of IRP posts are also permanent. Disclaimers in signatures and profiles are not and should not be considered permanent; they can and may be removed/hidden at any time by site Admins and should not be relied upon as a means to make legally required disclaimers.

While Investors Hub requires all professional members to declare their status, we cannot guarantee that all do. The absence of an IRP Disclosure/Disclaimer should not be construed to indicate the poster is not subject to 17(b) requirements. InvestorsHub does not track promotional activity engaged in by IRPs. Our subscription fees (described above) are for their commercial use of the site and our providing IRPs the ability to include any legally required Disclosures with their posts. InvestorsHub is not party to any agreements IRPs may have with their employers or entities they represent or from whom they receive compensation.

Refer to iHub Member IRPs for a listing of current and former IRPs.

iHub reserves the right to take any action it deems appropriate for Members it believes should declare IRP status but have not done so, including but not limited to suspension/termination of iHub privileges.

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

We are not in the "witchnhunt" game. If you want to do that, take it to a different site.

Otherwise, you have no idea what you're talking about.

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

If someone has a legal requirement under the Securities Act of 1933, they are required to become part of the IRP program here.

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

I definitely think there were stumbling blocks when the program started. I also think that the program made people think twice about taking $100 for posting on some board. They had to look within themselves and decide if being seen as a an IRP professional was what they wanted. Imo, many people realized that they weren't going to make a career out of this and just wanted to trade/invest. So, they got out of the program.

What I think we see a lot of now in the IRP program are people who have chosen this line of work as their career.

Bwdik?

[Mr. Zen]

look again. only one, the rest are freelance promotors.

There is a huge difference between promotors and company officials

And that is the root of the problem I had hoped would be addressed. Oh well.

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

Actually, I disagree.

We currently are at all time highs in IRPs disclosing. We have dozens of Users who have been suspended or booted from the site because they refused to legally comply with 17b.

IRPs are a big part of the penny world. That may not always be the case but as of now, it's a simple fact.

My goal with this program has always been for, what I assume, are the reasons 17b was put in place to begin with...to allow people reading information to know that the author is a professional in this line of work. Then the readers can choose to invest/trade or not with full disclosure.

I don't have any issue with promoters who choose to post here and legally disclose their compensation. I take great exception to those who do this in the shadows under the guise of being "just another User".

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

Yes you are right in it's basic form, but they should be seperated, that way real industry professionals would not be associated with freelance stock promotors. What I hub has now it's like having a personal bookie in the back of a real estate agents car. I do not see one IR professionalin your paid list, they are all freelance short term promotional services.

I disagree. I have spoken with many of them personally and I see a lot of professional business people who are signed up for the IRP program. Just because their way of conducting market awareness is different than yours, doesn't mean that they should be disparaged or that any sort of new program is needed.

I haven't looked closely at the list in awhile, but I know for a fact that we've had many IRPs employed by specific companies.

What does that tell you, that Ihub is catering to the pump and dump crowd over real investors needs and wants for true information, by individuals that adhere to SEC regulations.

No, that's not what it tells me. The very people you are castigating here are the ones that have chosen to comply with SEC regulations and properly disclose their compensation. Their posts are clearly marked that they are professionals and people know up front that their role is market awareness.

And that has been the part of the Investors HUb slide over the past 4 years...

iHub is at all time highs in regards to subscriptions, new Users, post volume.

[fung_derf]

Oh I'm speaking more on the way it is today. You're right, I wasn't around when it started up.

[Stock]

That's not the way I remember it.

Weren't you on sabbatical during the roll-out?

[fung_derf]

So some did it because they were afraid of being caught, then Ihub made zero effort to expose the people for real. And today, Ihub not only doesn't look, but helps the people stay hidden.

[Stock]

Fear of getting in trouble for non-disclosure.

Like I said, the program was designed for the honest.

But it attracted the stupid.

[fung_derf]

I never understood why anyone would sign up for the IRP program? Why pay money to post when Ihub is allowing you to pump for free and in the closet?

[Stock]

No, not at all. In fact, I think it was a noble effort, with clear intent to create a path that professional users on the site would WANT to sign up for.

All the program was about was giving an IRP a few extra tools to post their disclaimer and give them the ability to LEGALLY post the required (in every post) disclaimer about the stocks they were being compensated to promote.

What it turned into was an opportunity to attack several of the morons that signed up for the IRP program -- by other professionals AND non-professional users.

Why, you may ask? Because some of them did really stupid stuff. Like:

- Most were putting incomplete disclosures in their user profiles.
- Some were lying about compensation.
- Some were USING their profiles to market their "services" to others.
- Some were posting their personal information, making it easy for someone to stalk them in the real world.

The bottom line is that the sunshine was waaay to much for people in the program to take, and made them all easy targets when their promotions failed, and when they ended (and their pet stocks tanked).

ADD to all that, iHub made it CLEAR that the IRP program is no "Good Housekeeping Seal" that makes some user somehow "legitimate." In fact, they went OUT OF THEIR WAY to point out all it was: A few extra profile pages and a one-click disclosure.

That's it.

And that's all it STILL is.

If you are hoping for some kind of Premium IRP program with a concomitant golden seal of professionalism, I think you are dreaming.

iHub isn't going to do background checks or make value judgements on who is or isn't a sleazy promoter, and average promoter, or a investment relations professional. No way.

[Mr. Zen]

My conversation is with Administration on this issue, thank you for your opinion.
That is the wrong direction, anarchy on top of sleese ball promoters, yea that will give Investors Hub lots of respect.

It's reputation is in the toilet now, you just want to flush it.

[Stock]

Why not just ask for a total elimination of the IRP program?

I think that's a much better move.

It was a cute experiment, but it failed.

NEXT!

[fung_derf]

AMEN Brutha! Sing it out loud!

[Mr. Zen]

Yes you are right in it's basic form, but they should be seperated, that way real industry professionals would not be associated with freelance stock promotors. What I hub has now it's like having a personal bookie in the back of a real estate agents car.

I do not see one IR professionalin your paid list, they are all freelance short term promotional services.

What does that tell you, that Ihub is catering to the pump and dump crowd over real investors needs and wants for true information, by individuals that adhere to SEC regulations.

And that has been the part of the Investors HUb slide over the past 4 years...

I am asking for a review of your policy, not Both of the situations you describe fall under that heading gosh we know that..
I would like to see professionals with their own designation not to be associated with industry promotors that's all..

I am hoping you know the difference.

[Stock]

A pro is a pro is a pro.

Several "professionals" on iHub aren't paying, yet post about some company they represent.

The IRP program (such as it is) is for the honest, not the dishonest.

----

by the way, what moron Admin unbanned me here, lol

Matt HATED this post #msg-37308798

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

IRP = Investor Relations Professional. Both of the situations you describe fall under that heading.

[Mr. Zen]

The IRP program is out of touch with the industry.

The IRP program here at I hub needs to have a makeover to provide the service it was first intended. The IRP program needs to be broken into two parts, both should have a professional fee attached to the membership however the two parts need to remain separate with separate Icons to designate the two sectors.

First you have stock promoters, these make up the entire IRP program currently at investors hub now and they are designated by the IRP insignia. Stock promoters are freelance individuals or companies that solicit awareness campaigns for a short or medium length of time, once their program is done in general they move on to a new company and campaign bringing their data base with them.

Secondly you have Investor Relations personnel, these personnel are hired by the company usually for a longer period in time and may be actual employees of the public company. Their job is different than the stock promoter, as they must maintain SEC guidelines and build long term relations with brokers and retail investors.

In order for the IRP program to work these groups must be distinguishable one from another, although they both should pay a professional fee I think you will see a large jump in this program if they were separate categories and the fee was $45.00 per month.

I would therefore like to ask I hub to reconsider their IRP program to include and designate a difference between a stock promoter and a paid company official.

Respectfully
An Investor Relations professional that refuses to be associated with stock promoters and must therefore keep my mouth shut about the company I represent.

[ilovestocks85]

WOW LOL

[pumper_stumper]

Sorry, not on many of the boards I follow. It will be on page 2 and sometimes page 3 by the time it is restored. Much less visibility then.

[buyittradeit]

Actually if your post gets deleted then restored there is a green arrow by the post. There for it sticks out more then the other post.

Just sayin...

[pumper_stumper]

What do other iH members who are NOT IRP members think of the idea that iH allows IRP's to moderate stock boards of companies they represent.

YES, I KNOW, deletions of posts can be escalated for review. But that takes time and the posts are delayed for HOURS before they reappear.

Just from an ethics point of view, what do you think of this?

Are you familiar with the concept of conflict of interest?

[Churak]

GURB

[raidersoftheloststocks]

hope everybody has a great weekend

[raidersoftheloststocks]

i got you,i will update this week shelly,thanks thats perfect for me

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

Did you follow how to sign up?

http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/my_account.asp

[raidersoftheloststocks]

hello every one !!!

[frankie_fillet]

THEY are all over the place.