Well I agree with that in theory, but unless I totally misunderstood that is not the context of Jokersmoker's comments of them being worthless. In reality, they are not worthless even now. The fact that one can't spend it does not mean that it is worthless. I have an IRA too that I can't spend. Maybe not a great example, but you get the idea. Jokersmoker's comments IMO are condescending to the companie's efforts as I see it and thinks the preferred are now and will always be worthless. If he feels that way then get rid of them now.