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StephanieVanbryce

03/28/11 6:39 PM

#134698 RE: F6 #134644

I can understand how that particular situation is much more possible, maybe even acceptable
...than the normal situation that we hear about "incest" stories

.......

fuagf

03/28/11 8:52 PM

#134702 RE: F6 #134644

F6, most of the comments are as annoying, even repugnant, to me as the story is to those
who made them. To me almost all simply condemn, and feel moralistic and self-serving.

The comments i refer to are basically those that, based on their own conditioning, selfishly
and arrogantly (imo) condemn the couple. In contrast i wish the two all the luck in the world.

The only .. yup only .. concern of mine would be the risk of child abnormality. I don't know if the risk is great unless there was further inbreeding.

Then again, there are many adults who have a genetic condition themselves , or who have had children already with a physical or mental problem, that increase the risk of another child having the same or other genetic disability. many parents take that chance, and i'd bet that many of those who condemn this couple without much thought, would not condemn the others with the same heartlessness. If at all.

Haven't found much definitive on the risk factor, 'especially the first time in-breeding risk, yet .. one here ..

Twenty-nine children of brother-sister or father-daughter matings were studied. Twenty-one were ascertained because of the history of incest, eight because of signs or symptoms in the child. In the first group of 21 children, 12 had abnormalities, which were severe in nine (43%). In one of these the disorder was autosomal recessive. All eight of the group referred with signs or symptoms had abnormalities, three from recessive disorders. The high empiric risk for severe problems in the children of such close consanguineous matings should be borne in mind, as most of these infants are relinquished for adoption. .. http://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476%2882%2980347-8/abstract

Oh .. here is another ..

Genetic testing unveils surprising cases of incest
by nickj on February 11, 2011



Doctors testing for genetic abnormalities in children are uncovering shocking cases of incest, according to a report published in The Lancet. .. http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(11)60201-8/fulltext ..

The report, authored by Dr. Arthur Beaudet at the Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, notes that a normal child receives half of his or her genetic information from each parent. When overlapping identical genes are present in much higher than normal quantities, the explanation can only be incest.

In some of the children involved in the Baylor study, about 25 percent of genetic information that should have been different were identical, suggesting first-degree relations in the parents of the offspring, according to ABC News. ..
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/genenic-tests-reveal-incestuous-family-history/story?id=12889895 ..

Children born from such relationships are also 50 percent more likely to have disabilities, reported the source. .. more ..
http://www.trendbuzz.com/technology/12805/genetic-testing-unveils-surprising-cases-of-incest-2.html

AHA! .. this helps ..

Argument: Hereditary risk of incest are same as some other couples
From Debatepedia

Parent debate

* Debate: Legalization of adult incest .. http://debatepedia.idebate.org/en/index.php/Debate:_Legalization_of_adult_incest

Supporting quotations

"The case against love: A recent legislation on incest". University of Oxford, Practical Ethics. April 7, 2008 -
http://www.practicalethicsnews.com/practicalethics/2008/04/the-case-agains.html

The strongest, though most controversial point, is the last one: the protection from hereditary diseases. In the case under debate the pair already has four children. Three of them are in foster care, two are handicapped. Leaving the serious problems raised by classifying someone as handicapped aside, it is to be noted that if this was the only point justifying the illegalness of incest, a consistent law would require sanctioning all sexual acts in which the probability to father handicapped children is raised as compared to some standard. This standard might be the likelihood to have handicapped children within averaged over the whole society or the likelihood for a single couple that, according to current standards, counts as perfectly healthy.

The current law is inconsistent in this respect as it allows partners of all ages to beget children – although there is evidence that the likelihood for genetic defects becomes enhanced with older parents. Also people with diseases known to statistically enhance the chance of having handicapped children are not curtailed in their mating behaviour. ..more ..
http://debatepedia.idebate.org/en/index.php/Argument:_Hereditary_risk_of_incest_are_same_as_some_other_couples

There was another who put my position better than i did, but have lost it for now. LOL







fuagf

03/28/11 9:02 PM

#134706 RE: F6 #134644

One other on risk .. II. Incest in Criminology and Genetics [...]

Genetic Risks

Because of the importance of a thorough understanding of genetic risks for the justification of the criminal prohibition of incest, the secondary analysis was extended to research on the occurrence of genetic defects and the diseases related to them. Offspring of incestuous relationships exhibit a greater stock of homozygous genes that are characterized – in contrast to heterozygous genes – by a lower variability. A higher degree of heterozygosity means a greater capacity to react to variable environmental conditions and, thus, increased vitality. Children of incestuous relationships have a lower degree of heterozygosity. Even if they do not develop a genetic disease, their lower degree of heterozygosity causes a decrease in their general fitness, called an inbreeding depression. Genetic risks are studied mainly in those regions of the world where marriage between close relatives is in line with social custom.

Research has shown that offspring of incestuous relationships have a higher risk of developing genetic diseases than do offspring of non-incestuous relationships. The closer the kinship relation between sexual partners, the higher the probability of a genetic anomaly for the offspring. In general, genetic diseases and hereditary abnormalities affect about 2 to 5 % of live births and account for some 50 % of deaths of children in Western countries. A survey of 38 populations in Asia, Africa, Europe, and South America estimates the risk of a transfer of genetic abnormalities to children of incestuous relationships as being 1.7 to 2.8 % higher compared to relationships between unrelated partners. The risk for diseases that occur later, during the first year of life, is 7 to 31 % higher compared to the rest of the population. In Jerusalem, for instance, the occurrence of genetically-caused malformation was observed in Arab babies of incestuous relationships. The result of the study was that 8.7 % of the babies of incestuous relationships had malformations (for instance, cardiac defects or Down’s syndrome) compared to 2.6 % in a control group. Based on studies, it can be concluded that there is a higher risk of genetic damage although the risk is within a range not far above the average risk in the normal population.

[...]

Conclusion

In summary, the criminal prohibition of consensual incest between adults is relevant in only very few cases. While it is true that there are no representative empirical studies on the incidence and prevalence of sibling incest, some small-scale regional studies have shown that only 2 to 5 % of the surveyed population group had engaged in incestuous activity with a sibling. These experiences are largely limited to nonrecurring encounters or relationships of a short duration. Most of the “incest” cases that come to the attention of authorities involve other (aggravating) factors – factors that are the subject of special offense definitions in all legal systems.

If the incest law were abolished, no serious gaps in protection would result. In Germany, around 10 incest-related convictions are registered annually. The data from the Freiburg Cohort Study shows that by the time they reach the age of 35, only three to four persons born in a particular year (almost one million people are born each year) are registered by the judicial authorities for incest offenses. In addition, it has been shown that even in legal systems without a criminal prohibition of incest, the social incest taboo prevails. The "natural" aversion to incest is often explained by genetics and by a neuronal kin-recognition system. A natural avoidance of incest is so effective (excluding those regions of the world where certain forms of marriage among relatives are socially expected) that sexual relationships and marriage take place with partners from outside the family. Furthermore, while genetic risks are higher for offspring of incestuous relationships, this is only marginally so, and these risks can be addressed by means of genetic counseling. Therefore, the decriminalization of incest is not inconceivable. Decriminalization is worth considering, not only because cases such as the one at issue are very rare, but also because they tend to exhibit anomalies indicative of the fact that a "natural" aversion to incest did not develop because the partners grew up separately.

http://www.iuscrim.mpg.de/ww/en/pub/forschung/forschungsarbeit/gemeinsame_projekte/inzest/inzest_krim.htm

Re the comments mentioned in my other reply it's the total lack of empathy which so many exhibit toward others.

That is a problem.