Replies to post #71620 on Wave Systems Corp. (fka WAVXQ)

[Wildman262]

Barge, my main point is that it's the first time in a while that we've heard anyone say anything about LH (Longhorn) and TPM's. We never see articles about LH being associated with TPMs. We see all the other things that LH will supposedly do or not do, but nary a mention of a TPM being in the machine that runs it. I'm sure that it is partially by design, to keep the privacy freaks from whining about losing control of their PC's or some other nonsense.

Of course you are right in that MSFT will be using TPMS for media. When LH stickered machines with TPMs are sitting for sale in BestBuys, Circuit City, direct from Dell etc. there will likely be consumer apps. ready to go. With that kind of volume, the Ebays, banks and other online merchants will take advantage of them. Say good by to RSA tokes. Sheesh, so it goes, and ho hum.

ps. We've heard that NGSCB needed TPM's,but who knows where or what NGSCB is at this point in time. In any case, it looks like there should be more clarity on NGSCB at Winhec, next month.

[awk]

barge: Longhorn and 1.2 TPM

Ever since the first glimpses of NGSCB were made public the TPM 1.2 (SSC) was included as a necessary component for the architecture.

I can not believe that, after so many years, we are discussing this here on the board....

There are indeed literally hundreds of whitpapers and presentations vailable on the net.

And yes, even the main press has reported about this:

Here a Rick Merrit article:

http://www.iapplianceweb.com/story/OEG20031105S0025.htm

I should change my handle to "kantbleveit"...but it's taken...

[go-kitesurf]

barge, the confusion to journalists would be:

1) SSC vs. TPM (or...)
2) NGSCB vs. Longhorn

I think NGSCB is the big issue here. NGSCB and Longhorn are not exactly touted as the same. One is a component of the other. All NGSCB information clearly states SSC/TPM, and I think most people get by now that TPM=SSC, but most Longhorn info does not explicitly state TPM as you say. I think Longhorn is just a name of an O/S that has a bunch of new features, and NGSCB will be a core security engine running inside it.

Anyway, I don't think Journalists know anything unless they are told specifically what it is.

[awk]

barge: Yes I get the nuances, but...

...let's rehash the whole thing:


There are 2 (TWO) different architectures:


1. THE TCG MODEL

1.1 The TCG (vanilla) model: The TCG model is only about the secure generation, exchange and safeguarding of keys (For many applications this is more than enough).

1.2 In the TCG (vanilla) model computations are done in the unsecured world of the rich OS

1.3 The TCG model does not execute anything - other than cryptographic operations in the TPM - in a secure execution environment.

1.4 Within the TCG model there is no such thing as an applet! Not even a Janus applet

1.5 While, of course, the Janus DRM scheme could/can be hardened with the use of the TPM it still makes the player device a discrete and proprietary device.



2. THE LONGHORN(NGSCB) MODEL

2.1 The Longhorn(LaGrande/SEM) model is one of a secure execution environment.

2.2 In the Longhorn(LaGrande/SEM) model sensitive computations are done in the secure processor partition under the control of the secure kernel OS

2.3 In the Longhorn(LaGrande/SEM) model the TPM 1.2 is all about the secure generation, exchange and safeguarding of keys, just like in the TCG model described above. Longhorn(NGSCB) depends on the non-volatile memory of the TPM to safeguard not only keys but also time-ticks (i.e elapsed time of a content rental process) and other elements that might otherwise be lost when the PC is shut down.

2.4 No applications - not even Janus - will be integrated into Longhorn(LaGrande/SEM) by default. Within the secure execution environment and under the control of the secure kernel OS ANY DRM scheme can be executed. Every DRM scheme is delivered to the secure execution environment via a certified/verified/encrypted applet(program) that contains all the instructions what this applet is/does and what is supposed to be done(computed). This, by the way, applies to every architecture featuring a secure execution environment, including TrustZone...The trick about LaGrande/TrustZone/SEM architectures is that they are application agnostic...and secure!


It is fundamentally wrong to "generally" mix up Longhorn(LaGrande/SEM/TrustZone) with TPMs. They are not the same, they do not do the same, they have different tasks. But Longhorn(LaGrande/SEM/TrustZone) requires a TPM as spelled out in Point 2.3

Other than that I have no issues...and, yes, I know exactly what Wildman is conveying in his post...and if it takes an "association of Longhorn - TPM" to explain Trusted Computing... then fine with me...