Replies to post #399444 on NorthWest Biotherapeutics Inc (NWBO)

[biosectinvestor]

That is not what was said, that is your convoluting the argument. You apparently do not know what CDMO means. Do you think NWBO is a CDMO? It is not.

Do you think NWBO does not own it’s own manufacturing facility in Sawston. It does.

Quit trying to confuse people with terminology you either do not understand or think they do not understand.

CDMO means a contract development manufacturing organization, which is exactly what Advent is narrowly. It is under contract to develop their manufacturing capability.

How often do you think an organization may need such a company after they become commercial? It depends. If they want to entirely outsource their manufacturing, they might go with a Charles River Labs, and never own their own facilities or develop them. Actually, many cell therapy companies go with this model throughout their development. But there may be reasons to manage such technologies closely. If manufacturing is the primary way to protect your IP, and you don’t have a lot of other protections, you may want to hold that all quite closely. Some companies have more layers of IP protection and some less.

Additionally, once you get close to going commercial, you might want to bring it in-house, but if low on resources, using a firm like Advent in an advisory and on a consulting contract basis makes sense. Meaning you contract for the employees, but the facilities are yours to keep. The licenses for GMP, belong to NWBO. The procedures, the equipment and fixtures also all belong to NWBO. Then one may want such services to help in advancing the technology, but on a need to know very tightly managed basis.

The notion that they need to hire a third-party business that might steal their know how or not keep it very confidential makes sense if you’re already not a fan. But it makes little sense to me.

Additionally, keeping the Human Resource costs low, which are long-term, in the development process, and then hiring as you scale up, makes more sense to me. Let the outside firm figure out how they might share those costs with other organizations. This is not rocket science. These are pretty broad and general principles that many start-ups try to use to minimize their costs. And allowing such a firm to use your excess factory space turns a resource that is under utilized potentially into a revenue source until you need it. Now is Advent there yet. No, but it is doubtful that a well established company needs that kind of resource, so the symbiotic and synergistic opportunities are likely not easily created with well established firms.

Lastly, auditors and policies and regulators and lawyers filing lawsuits have already gone over these sorts of issues with NWBO. If you’re going to claim funny business, sue them. If you have no suit, then all you’re doing is slandering the company online.

[Jack2479]

I think you put that well. The irony is that this was what happened with Cognate / NWBO and changes to the ownership were forced into play. Interestingly I believe it was NWBO shareholder funds that mostly got Cognate out of the starting blocks. It already happened and yet it gets swept away and yet the changes in ownership of cognate brought about a new relationship between Cognate and NWBO…..we stopped funding them.

Arguments about CDMO is a red herring. I don’t recall ever being told during any of the funding rounds that my money was to be used to set up a third party CDMO…..I was told it’s being used to build up Sawston vital for the commercial success of DCVax. I was told we are going it alone and will become the leading biotech in the field of cancer. That’s why NWBO purchased Sawston in the first place…..

When the licence is awarded to make DCVax at Sawston on a commercial level do you believe that it will be in the name of Northwest Biotherapeutics or in the name of Advent Bioservices? It’s an important question because if it’s the later that means we will have no choice but to purchase the vaccine from them and it begs the question why did we pour so much money into buying the site, selling it for a profit to then kit it out without ever intending to benefit from the ability to operate it……running a CDMO is highly lucrative (cognate sold for a very good premium) and equally the ability to deliver commercial scale production of DCVax within Northwest Biotherapeutics is also valuable.
It could be that the transfer price between Advent and NWBO will be very low and that would be welcomed but it could also be just a few points off what an independent Cognate will charge and we know that is extremely lucrative…..we will never know that transfer price due to commercial confidentiality.

As for the fact we are protected by the auditors report….honestly tell that to the long list of shareholders caught up in scandals. It’s a joke and offers virtually no incentive to dig deeper than the light touch approach based on the auditor relying on the integrity of what they are told. That’s how the system works everywhere.

Everyone has a position and just as it’s obviously biased when you get opinions consistently attacking the science and Mgt. Equally you get others that go on the offensive when anyone raises any red flags about anything to do with corporate governance or the science. They act like employees defending the company when they are not……they are shareholders just like pretty much everyone that posts in here. All of these important questions raised are perfectly okay to ask and could simply be answered with clarity and transparency at any time by Mgt which ultimately is in the best interests of everyone involved, including them. Having been attacked relentlessly in the past I’ve no doubt they are very much aware of this fact and I’m relying on that to believe they will provide complete transparency on this matter.

[anders2211]

I have always said that in most EU countries, the self-dealing by LP/LG in this particular case of LP would have most certainly led to the prosecution by a government body and, Im nearly sure would have led to the successful conviction of the reimbursing of suffered damages for shareholders. Those damages would have been based on the sum the Northwest shares would have been worth if the CDMO 's would have been subsidiaries of Northwest, as required in most EU countries in given circumstances.

But NWBO is not in Europe... this is America and in America, this construction that LP and LG chose for is apparently completely legal. I think its no different than any other CEO of a listed company in the US filling its pocket.

Im 98% sure L will be approved and that will set the SP to x at least Im invested for that.

[Doc logic]

Johnni,

Look at the progression. Cognate was the startup CDMO producing relatively small amounts of vaccine and carried debt incurred by NWBO to them which they often converted to shares. The time came when there was no more vaccine being made for NWBO and Cognate needed to be ready to step out on it’s own to establish it’s own value because NWBO could not add any more significant value for the time being and there was no sure way to know how the financial well being of one might affect the other during a waiting period. Also Linda had to stay focused on the path to approval as the bears are always quick to point out how much work that entails and even more so if an international footprint might be needed in the future with L as SOC. Cognate is apparently too small and might not have been able to catch up to the need in time even though Advent had been set up as support. Enter Charles Rivers Labs stage right after a likely nudge to be prepared after endpoints changed to include rGBM and the Flaskworks purchase had been arranged.
Johnni, you have a right to question but it is imperative to think things through and many have no idea about what it takes to do what NWBO is doing because they have no experience in this realm. Most big longs are willing to give NWBO the benefit of the doubt as much of this is sod busting and demand from all comers is likely to outstrip supply if not prepared for well ahead of time. The personalized nature of this platform treatment, it’s safety profile and the potential breakthrough it represents for all solid tumors will create significant off label demand which I believe only existing approved facilities could possibly hope to try and catch up to. NWBO was never going to be able to tackle this all on their own and this is their answer to the problem of big pharma “offers” of the past to capture everything for themselves on the cheap. Best wishes.