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exwannabe

08/05/21 5:54 PM

#393965 RE: longfellow95 #393963

There is a sound reason why investigators such as LL and Prins will very often use ORR in early stage trials.

There is a reason why the speech Pazdur made about clincial endpoints moving away from OS repeatedly mentioned response rate as a metric.

Suggest you ask them.

flipper44

08/05/21 6:02 PM

#393966 RE: longfellow95 #393963

Sometimes ORR is predictive, most of the time it’s merely transient in difficult to treat cancers. The reason is obvious — tumor escape via heterogeneity. Shrinking tumors temporarily is a goldmine for business people, but fools gold in most cases for patients with dire prognoses in cancers still considered terminal. ORR is a perfect business model, the trials are quick, the approvals are quick and the riches are quick. Unfortunately, in difficult cancer indications, those types of ORRs typically result in short survival for patients. ORR is not helpful unless it links to lengthened survival confirmed by comprehensive and lengthy follow up. Unfortunately, this is not typically the case.

Autologous cancer vaccines that work are anticipated to have a diametrically opposed MOA to those described above. While immune response and tumor stabilization may occur early, evidence of true efficacy may require lengthy trials to establish long term survival trends. ORR may be delayed and/or simply nonexistent when tumors die but leave shells to elude western preconceived ideas of efficacy.

Jon D. Loves short trials. There is a reason for this. They fit a business model and appeal to the short attention span of most humans.

jondoeuk

08/05/21 6:51 PM

#393975 RE: longfellow95 #393963

The US NCI published data from TIL trials in metastatic melanoma, with 194 patients treated. Among these, 63 (31%) had partial responses, and 46 (24%) had complete responses. Forty-four of 46 CR patients have remained in CR for over 14 to 152 months following a single treatment. With a median follow-up of 6.3 years, the estimated 10-year OS of all patients is approximately 35%, and the estimated 10-year OS of the 46 patients who achieved CR is over 90%. Also, addition data from the FDA https://ascopubs.org/doi/abs/10.1200/JCO.2019.37.15_suppl.9508

This has been shown in other types, that is the depth of response correlates with survival (PFS and/or OS).