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Pyrrhonian

03/12/17 6:42 PM

#102357 RE: Pyrrhonian #102355

If anyone wants a summary of that monster post, here it is:

DHA is beneficial for one's health, and should not be omitted from fish oil just because of LDL-C worries. It is the fatty acid responsible for lowering blood pressure (BP) and resting heart rate (HR), interfering with oxLDL uptake by macrophages, interfering with LDL synthesis, increasing LDL particle size and decreasing LDL-P concentration (far more implicated in MACE than LDL-C), increasing HDL-C and especially HDL2, and is much better than EPA at lowering VLDL-C. It also has no effect on fasting glucose levels.

EPA taken alone on the other hand has no effect on BP or HR, has modest lowering effects on LDL-C at doses of 4g/d (although the above study showed it increased LDL-C slightly at the same dose), may decrease LDL particle size (atherogenic), increases oxLDL uptake by macrophages, decreases HDL-C and especially HDL3, and increases fasting glucose levels in T2Ds.

So I do not think it wise to take 4g/d EPA only. Or any dose of EPA only. Risk reduction is apparent when peoples cut back on atherogenic foods and replace them with cardio-protective foods (this is even true of LA containing foods). Replacing mammalian meats and dairy with non-fried fish is clearly cardio-protective, and of course lots of DHA and DPA etc are naturally present in the fish along with EPA.

This over-focus on LDL-c imo misses the forest for the trees.

Lastly, even with DHA, it appears that isolated fish oils at higher doses (4g/d+) have mixed benefit. Although lipid profiles improve, there are a number of atherogenic markers that increase, including TBARS and decreased serum vit E.

One placebo-controlled study of around 300 subjects that tried a dose of 4g/d n-3 failed, and actually showed a trend towards increased MACE risk in fish oil group:

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/1/50.long

The authors (experienced cardiologists) hypothesized that, among other possibilities for the failure, optimal dose statins and low dose aspirin may "mask the potential of n-3 to show benefit." And so what is left is the potential harm, which they also hypoethsized may result due to increased lipid peroxidation at high dosages.

Net net, I think REDUCE-IT will overwhelmingly fail (and I haven't even touched on dropouts going on fenofibrate or OTC n-3 while remaining ODIS). But I hope I'm wrong. It would be a nice consolation for losing money on my future short positions if that happens.

Planning to short AMRN before 2nd IA rec announcement and will re-short with profits plus additional principal just before final data. In this manner I can potentially turn a 60% - 80% short profit into a compounded 120%+ profit.

Cheers and GL
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Whalatane

03/12/17 6:51 PM

#102359 RE: Pyrrhonian #102355

PY as usual you reach back to old studies ...as far back as 1984 ...to support your case ....and ignore the most recent research , such as the following

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1537189116303147

Kiwi