Replies to post #50842 on High Wire Networks Inc (HWNI)

[Greener]

Everyone claims to understand Hydrogen Fuel Cell tech and infrastructure .... but for some reason the understanding goes out the door for Mantra's MRFC.

Just like the Hydrogen Fuel cell..... it would use Formate and oxygen to produce electricity (over simplified) but it produces very little heat and water as a byproduct (Compared to Hydrogen) Also, the formic acid could be pumped in vehicle fuel cells from existing infrastructure for gasoline..... not so with hydrogen.... plus hydrogen is highly combustible.... formate is not. So the vehicle or device utilizing a MRFC is actually electric...not a combustion engine or rechargeable battery.... chemical reactions produce the electricity.

On smaller devices like a cell phone for instance, there would be no plugging in to charge, just replace a fuel cell... instant gratification. Im sure the empties can be collected and refueled.

I would suggest looking up Hydrogen fuel cell tech to see more of the picture. The MRFC is more promising once developed.... safer, and more efficient. Producing the Formate is a greener option then producing hydrogen.

[Ag Boy]

Think of the internal combustion engine and gas. Running the engine uses the gas to produce the power you want and you go to the filling station to refuel your vehicle with gas when needed. The MRFC uses the formic acid to produce power you want and you go to filling station to refuel your vehicle with formic acid when needed. One of the largest problems with the H2 fuel cell from being widely accepted is the lack of a H2 fuel infrastructure to widely distribute Hydrogen Gas to replace it once used. The cost to build a H2 infrastructure is astronomical and has been prohibitive. Formic acid is compatible and comparable enough to gasoline that it should be able to use the existing gasoline infrastructure with little change and cost.

If they referred to formic acid as formula X39 it might be easily accepted with a positive view. People sometimes are scared of the term acid and like formulas.

[Ecomike]

Let me try to explain this one more time. Fuel cells are not charged up. Batteries and capacitors are charged up by storing electrons.

Fuel cells operate buy consuming fuel like a gas engine or gas turbine. The fuel is oxidized by oxygen (in most cases), and the oxygen reduces the fuel. It is called an oxidation reduction reaction. It does not store electrons like a battery.

Hydrogen reacts with oxygen to form water and free electrons.

Formic acid or formates react with oxygen to form water and CO2, or cabonic acid, or KHCO3, potassium bi-carbonate. The hydrogen is released from the formic acid/formate molecule and its oxidation with oxygen produces water and electrons (power). The carbonate (water plus CO2 in the liquid phase) can be recycled to an MVTG ERC to make more formate/formic acid fuel.