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BioBS2012

02/16/16 1:00 PM

#253322 RE: exwannabe #253321

They will PR "trial continues" shortly (IMO).

Be careful there. Some will want to know if "shortly" = SOON or Imminent. LoL
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volgoat

02/16/16 1:12 PM

#253324 RE: exwannabe #253321

yep, CA is on going, they aint PR'g nothing they don't have to to cause a jump.

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md1225

02/16/16 1:45 PM

#253326 RE: exwannabe #253321

I'm planning on that "green light" from the DMC and with that this here little stock finally starts its move to stardom.
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tradero

02/16/16 1:54 PM

#253330 RE: exwannabe #253321

Hi EX, I may not understand your question because I don’t see the issue...

Both CP and trader seam to have reasonable models. But if they apply them to both arms them the first look would have been many months ago. And that is the conundrum.



See the chart below. According to my model, 1st look would have happened for a Bavi MOS of 13MOS (beginning of January), 15MOS (2nd half of January) and 17MOS might have happened last week.... But for MOS greater than them it should not have happened yet… and don’t forget it may take 1 month(?) for PPHM to acknowledge (find out) it. First, the Hospital has to find out and then inform PPHM or the Control Entity



Chart comes from the table below. Events are for both arms. Placebo Arm like Herbst et all.

17 % Droppedouts taken into account like in Opdivo trial, though they didn’t show up in the trial til after 15 months enrolled...
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Protector

02/16/16 4:14 PM

#253358 RE: exwannabe #253321

exwannabe, I tend to agree with this assessment.

yet it remains puzzling because in total we should be at 225 events by now.

1) I cannot believe that the Bavi arm would have produce 16 events by now.

2) Yes there are drop-out and as a reminder they are NOT in my model. But still take 10 in each arm and we are still at 205 total events (130 vs 75).

3) A 1st ln NSCLC scenario with patients in the CTRL living much longer? Well in my model I use your 420 days and not 300 so if longer living CTRL arm patients is the cause then they are extremely outliving Herbst et al, 2010.

4) First look-in was not trigger 3 weeks ago, we know that for sure. Well PPHM wasn't aware of it. Could be that it took place and then everything stands and fall with how much time the IDMC/DSMB needs to write that letter to PPHM and for PPHM to tell us. But also here, a month back we were at 128 CTRL, 77 BAVI and 205 events total. Minus drop-outs that would be 118 CTRL, 67 BAVI and 185 total, still sufficient for 1st look-in at 154 events.

5) Rumsfield's "the unknown unknowns". Well what can I say!
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jq1234

02/20/16 2:07 PM

#253842 RE: exwannabe #253321

>> Anyway, the question is why do we have this disconnect between models applied to both arms, and the real time timing of the first look.


Using mOS alone of each arm to project events for a trial just finished enrollment is a non-starter because the underlying assumption is that KM curves are separating at the beginning when they usually don't separate much at least for a few months in trials like this. Earlier phase trials that showed OS curves separate from the beginning are usually not replicable in larger ph3 trials. For example, SNTA almost 4 months mOS advantage from ph2 trial disappeared completely in ph3 trial resulting futility at 1st interim. Event rate on both arms shouldn't differ that much in early interim, see Opdivo trial, event rate didn't differ until after 6 months. Thus models used here to produce 9:1 events at 1st interim have practically zero value at this point. I would put reasons for the disconnect in the following order:

. Enrolment way "backloaded"
. Dropouts (or just slow event data collection) in the E-EU sites
. Placebo arm doing better than guessed

In previous 2nd line NSCLC trials, few effective subsequent treatments after progression were available. Very few patients in Opdivo trial went on to immunotherapy after progression even though 50% on both arms went on to have subsequent treatments. However for ongoing NSCLC trials, it is different as both Opdivo and Keytruda are approved for NSCLC for a few months now, thus it is very likely to have effect on both event rate and dropout, depends on how many patients enrolled are from US. How much is the impact, don't know until full results. Even though official dropout in Opdivo trial was very low, 4 on each arm, but 22 on docetaxel arm withdrew consent after randomization thus didn't receive docetaxel treatment, and very high percentage (20%) discontinued treatment due to AEs on docetaxel arm as well. Only extremely well run trial could keep almost all of these patients in follow up for OS.