Replies to post #38051 on High Wire Networks Inc (HWNI)

[Ecomike]

On second thought

"Formic acid might be used to rejuvenate the used sodium formate (which turns into sodium carbonate as the formate ion reacts to form carbonate ions)!!!!!

DIY'rs would love that aspect!!!! Might be able to use a pH meter or simple cheap titrator to recycle small or large batchs to a precise restored concentration!!! It would even make a nice business start up for cycle shops. "

A Mini ERC would likely be needed to sustain this or a special rig to swap ions, carbonate for formate ions, ion exchange resin or membrane systems..... I will post more on this later....
But simple titration rigs can make the process control easy!!!

the problem is or may be removing the carbonate if it loads up (disolves) and stays in the used fuel. I need to do some checking on what MVTG is actually using and how much CO2 is collecting in the used fuel.... It may be minor and not an issue, in which case the Sodium formate would become sodium hydroxide and water, and then the additon of formic acid would work producing fresh sodium formate and water. Anyway, I will post up more on this later..

[Greener]

When the ERC takes off…. there should be a nice supply of Formic Acid and make it cheaper and easier to attain. it definitely has advantages over gas…… clean (actually used to clean) and non explosive. I imagine it is corrosive but if handled properly should not be an issue.

[Ecomike]

MVTG chemistry 101 class on the formic acid formate recycling...:

Titration lab process is used in many plating and phosphate prepaint cleaning processes and in food and chemical processes and in medical blood tests....it is easy to do!!!! Even testing chlorine levels in drinking water well systems is done with a low cost titration rig!!! Some under $30.

http://www.grapestompers.com/articles/measure_acidity.htm

"How to Measure Acidity Using a Titration Kit
One of the simplest and most effective ways to measure T.A. in wine is by the titration method, which uses an inexpensive titration or acid test kit. These test kits can be purchased for as little as $6.00 (see our Item #2716) and can be used over and over again.

If you took chemistry in high school, you'll probably remember that titration is a process where you determine the concentration of an unknown substance in a liquid (in our case, we are looking for the amount of acid in must or wine) by slowly adding a small amount of reagent (a base called sodium hydroxide - NaOH - whose chemical concentration is known) until a change in color occurs due to the presence of an indicator (phenolphthalein)."