Replies to post #12627 on DNA Brands Inc (DNAX)

[Kristi]

If all the outstanding shares have sell orders attached to them there should be less to work the short game.

I have always heard this too... so, I guess for our class assignment, let's all put our sell orders in at a higher (yet reasonable) price and see if this theory works and knocks VFIN off the the ask.

If the ask starts to increase, we can always move our sell orders higher or cancel them.

Anyone up for the challenge?

[cjstocksup]

Exactly! All DNAX shareholders need to know who VFIN is!
"VFIN is an instument of shorts. He/she makes a bundle by bringing stock prices down for the shorters. The shorters are actually folks who have margin accounts and can Sell Short meaning they sell shares they don’t have, at asks lower than they would seek if they truly were buying in a company they were looking to see go higher. That is normally why one would buy a stock. This short seller could be any one of us who may have a margin account and choose Sell Short as the method of transaction.

If my understanding of this process is correct there need to be unassigned, unpriced shares out there for the shorter to manipulate. If all the outstanding shares have sell orders attached to them there should be less to work the short game.

I had been guilty of sitting on a few hundred thousand shares without sell orders attached so I was part of the problem. Many of us were and the fewer that leave open shares in this stock the better our chances of moving forward if my perception of short selling is correct.

The more profitable shorts can be made the more they will happen. AS I write this NITE has a bid of 1000K at .002 and an ask of 500K at .0021 on DNAX. How many normal investors/traders would have that arrangement going on?

ASSIGN VALUE TO YOUR SHARES!!!!!

Set sell prices higher than you could hope for and change them as appropriate when you see a current price at or above the ask that is in your comfort zone."

[Ed the Trader]

I am not going to suggest that marketmakers do not play games because we all are pretty sure that they do. However, I need to point out some things:

"The shorters are actually folks who have margin accounts and can Sell Short meaning they sell shares they don’t have..."

You are talking about naked shorting, and yes, you can do that sometimes (when your broker will allow it for a specific stock which has the right circumstances). However, for a stock that is valued at under a buck or two per share, the broker will freeze $2-3 of your available funds for each share that you short until the short situation is resolved. I'm not saying that someone cannot do that. I am just saying that there are less resource intensive ways to make a tenth of a penny of profit per share than tying up $2-3 of your available funds.

"AS I write this NITE has a bid of 1000K at .002 and an ask of 500K at .0021 on DNAX. How many normal investors/traders would have that arrangement going on?"

NITE is NOT a normal investor; NITE is a marketmaker. A marketmaker's job is to create a market to allow normal investors, like you and me, to place buy orders or sell orders whenever we want. Marketmakers are handing orders for thousands of investors simultaneously, and perhaps dozens or hundreds of investors for a single stock. So, it is not difficult to see that some investors may be selling a single stock at the same time that another investor is buying. However, in L2, all of those orders for the same stock are marked for that one marketmaker even if the marketmaker has no personal stake in any of the transactions!

Per regulation, marketmakers are REQUIRED to make a market for a stock by accepting both buy orders and sell orders at any time regardless of whether or not they have the required shares to complete the transaction. If they don't have the required shares, it is their responsibility to acquire the shares required to complete the transaction within a certain time limit. So, just because they are put into those sometimes awkward situations BY VIRTUE OF BEING A MARKETMAKER, they sometimes do some things that are very awkward for everyone else to deal with.

One of those things is that they sell shares that they do not have, and they later have to replace them. Functionally, this looks like a short, but it does not really count as such because the marketmaker is not allowed to NOT take this set of actions.

[cjstocksup]

All DNAX shareholders need to know who VFIN is!
"VFIN is an instument of shorts. He/she makes a bundle by bringing stock prices down for the shorters. The shorters are actually folks who have margin accounts and can Sell Short meaning they sell shares they don’t have, at asks lower than they would seek if they truly were buying in a company they were looking to see go higher. That is normally why one would buy a stock. This short seller could be any one of us who may have a margin account and choose Sell Short as the method of transaction.

If my understanding of this process is correct there need to be unassigned, unpriced shares out there for the shorter to manipulate. If all the outstanding shares have sell orders attached to them there should be less to work the short game.

I had been guilty of sitting on a few hundred thousand shares without sell orders attached so I was part of the problem. Many of us were and the fewer that leave open shares in this stock the better our chances of moving forward if my perception of short selling is correct.

The more profitable shorts can be made the more they will happen. AS I write this NITE has a bid of 1000K at .002 and an ask of 500K at .0021 on DNAX. How many normal investors/traders would have that arrangement going on?

ASSIGN VALUE TO YOUR SHARES!!!!!

Set sell prices higher than you could hope for and change them as appropriate when you see a current price at or above the ask that is in your comfort zone."