Followers | 29 |
Posts | 442 |
Boards Moderated | 0 |
Alias Born | 09/19/2008 |
Wednesday, December 03, 2008 10:00:42 AM
I am neither certatin about US accounting rules nor an accountant expert.
But I do have some basic knowledge about "globaly accepted accounting rules".
One of the key-core generaly accepted accounting rule is that the books should report worst case scenarions:
- Debts and liabilities: should appear in its worst case view, it means that the books should show in liabilities the full exposure to debts as well as potential exposures that may become real..
- Assets: should appear in its worst case view.
A) It normally means that the book value of a tangible asset is the original investement in the asset minus the cumulative depreciation over years. In the example of RState it normally undervalue the assets because RState bought long ago in the long run usually increases value. Equipment, IT, etc, shows up as purchase value minus depreciation. Again - in the case of RState - tipically the value increase significantlly over many years. ( not the case for investments done in the last few years).
B) In the case of untangible assets that has clear dinamic but fair market value such as stake in public companies, bonds, etc..the rule forces to show in the books the last known fair market value in the investment... ( this is what killed the balansheets of companies holdign junk-mortage related assets ).
C) In the case of untangible assets such as stake in companies that have not public valuation - tipically non-public companies - the accounting rules woulsd force to show the original investment ( in normal conditions lower than current market value in case of these stakes being sold). The real value of such assets shows up in books only once the asset has been sold. The exeption may be considered by auditors in case there are clear objective signs that the original investment has been depreciated. In this case the value in the books would reflect this depreciation ( again worst case scenario rule).
D) There are other elements such as intelectual property (patents or acummulated R&D), legal rights, brand value, customer base, signed future contracts, etc... that usually are reflected as Good Will asset. Here there are some depreciation rules to be applied.
As I said before I am not an expert but besides the cash, and possibly some good will related to WM brand, most WMI assets are in groups A (remaining real state) and C (stake in non public subsidiaries).
It means that formal accounting books - and now I mean the last 8k filing - should reflect the worst cases and not necesarily market value.
Example: a stake in a PE fund that invested 5 years ago in tech companies, would show the original value invested, not considering the value - normally higher ) of the companies in which that fund invested. Remember that if these investments have been obviously depreciated because the PE did a lousy job the auditors would force to show the depreciation.
Other example: the purchase of a building 15 or 20 years ago would appear valued as the original investment. Likely today is worth much more, but the companies are not allowed - oftenly not even interested in order hide profit and save taxes - to reflect that increased value until the building is sold.
Other example: the original investment in WM Bank should appear valued as zero, whatever big it was originally ... there are obvious reasons to erase it from WMI balance sheet...
Why is this relevant? .. because 8k doc. must always show the worst - according to accounting rules, specially if presented to the court - possible valuation of assets.
For me this mean that now we do have a bottom valuation in this 8k doc. If WMI manages to sell some of these non public subsidiaries at higher price than this worst case valuation reflected in the 8k - and only once they do it - then this new higher value will inmediatly show up as additional asset value ( assets ) and as retained profit ( liability/equity) in the balance sheet and as profit in the P/L... therefore producing inmediate value to shareholders.
Any possible buyer would evaluate and know pretty well the difference between book value shown in the 8k and possible real value.
I think I am not making here any conceptual mistake, but I would appreciate a reply from someone familiar with US accounting ...
Recent COOP News
- Form SC 13G/A - Statement of Beneficial Ownership by Certain Investors: [Amend] • Edgar (US Regulatory) • 11/08/2024 10:31:22 PM
- Form 8-K - Current report • Edgar (US Regulatory) • 11/06/2024 12:01:04 PM
- Mr. Cooper Completes Acquisition of Flagstar’s Mortgage Operations • Business Wire • 11/01/2024 08:30:00 PM
- Form 4 - Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities • Edgar (US Regulatory) • 10/30/2024 08:27:11 PM
- ZenaTech, Inc. (NASDAQ: ZENA) Software Company Acquisition • InvestorsHub NewsWire • 10/23/2024 12:03:31 PM
- Form 10-Q - Quarterly report [Sections 13 or 15(d)] • Edgar (US Regulatory) • 10/23/2024 11:02:51 AM
- Form 8-K - Current report • Edgar (US Regulatory) • 10/23/2024 11:00:35 AM
- Mr. Cooper Group Reports Third Quarter 2024 Results • Business Wire • 10/23/2024 11:00:00 AM
- Mr. Cooper Group Announces Senior Leadership Updates to Drive Digital-First Strategy and AI-Powered Home Loan Experience • Business Wire • 10/09/2024 01:00:00 PM
- Mr. Cooper Group Inc. to Discuss Third Quarter 2024 Financial Results on October 23, 2024 • Business Wire • 10/08/2024 09:10:00 PM
- Form 4 - Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities • Edgar (US Regulatory) • 10/02/2024 08:04:29 PM
- Form 144 - Report of proposed sale of securities • Edgar (US Regulatory) • 10/01/2024 08:32:21 PM
- ZenaTech, Inc. (NASDAQ: ZENA) To Commence Trading Today • InvestorsHub NewsWire • 10/01/2024 11:00:00 AM
- Mr. Cooper Group Inc. to Present at the Barclays Global Financial Services Conference • Business Wire • 09/03/2024 09:00:00 PM
- Form 4 - Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities • Edgar (US Regulatory) • 08/30/2024 08:17:46 PM
- Form 8-K - Current report • Edgar (US Regulatory) • 08/01/2024 08:31:53 PM
- Form 4 - Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities • Edgar (US Regulatory) • 07/30/2024 08:09:25 PM
- Mr. Cooper Group Inc. Announces Pricing of Offering of $750 Million of Senior Notes • Business Wire • 07/29/2024 08:30:00 PM
- Form 144 - Report of proposed sale of securities • Edgar (US Regulatory) • 07/29/2024 08:24:31 PM
- Form 10-Q - Quarterly report [Sections 13 or 15(d)] • Edgar (US Regulatory) • 07/26/2024 08:20:36 PM
- Form 8-K - Current report • Edgar (US Regulatory) • 07/25/2024 11:00:12 AM
- FLAGSTAR BANK, N.A. ANNOUNCES SALE OF ITS MORTGAGE SERVICING BUSINESS • PR Newswire (US) • 07/25/2024 11:00:00 AM
- Mr. Cooper Group Reports Second Quarter 2024 Results and Announces Acquisition of Mortgage Operations From Flagstar • Business Wire • 07/25/2024 11:00:00 AM
- Mr. Cooper Group Inc. to Discuss Second Quarter 2024 Financial Results on July 25, 2024 • Business Wire • 07/11/2024 08:00:00 PM
FEATURED Are we about to see a comeback? Steakholder Foods Charges Forward with New Commitments from Multiple International Players as it Transitions to Revenue Generation • Nov 18, 2024 11:56 AM
FEATURED North Bay Resources Announces Production of Gold Concentrate and Refinery Shipment at Bishop Gold Mill, California • Nov 18, 2024 9:00 AM
One World Products Sets New Standards in Sustainability With Strategic Hemp Innovations • OWPC • Nov 18, 2024 7:54 AM
Kona Gold Beverage, Inc. Updates Multi-Million Dollar Merger and Posts Over $1.2 Million in Q3 Revenues • KGKG • Nov 15, 2024 10:36 AM
HealthLynked Corp. Announces Third Quarter and Year-to-Date 2024 Results with Strategic Restructuring, Third-Party Debt Repayment, and Core Technology Focus • HLYK • Nov 15, 2024 8:00 AM
Alliance Creative Group (ACGX) Releases Q3 2024 Financial and Disclosure Report with an increase of over 100% in Net Income for 1st 9 months of 2024 vs 2023 • ACGX • Nov 14, 2024 8:30 AM