Well, SeattleITguy... I have to break one of my own rules and apologize for removing my posts. I agree with what you are saying, but it was wrong for me to dump on people to make a point that we already both know is true. Many of the guys I worked with in my factory days were stellar people with good intentions and were generous with their time and knowledge. It wasn't right for me to state otherwise. There were a few jerks, but they were the exception. Each generation makes their own way and will make mistakes that future generations will have to clean up. I think that is the point we were agreeing on. Be well sir and thanks for sharing your thoughts.