Long2Retire Friday, 10/11/19 10:44:13 AM Re: plugger post# 63638 Post # of 63784 God's clear and invisible attributes leave me no excuse for not knowing there is a God of creation. If there is no excuse, does prevenient grace apply here? Would God use creation to lead someone to salvation? Certainly! "Prevenient Grace" may get me to the door of salvation. A door which I must open when Jesus knocks. I think God chooses how to knock with regard to a person's intelligence. Sometimes, a persons intelligence is a stumbling block - makes one kick against the goads; as Paul found out. :) My faith is a gift from God. I can't get it on my own. A discussion of "Prevenient Grace" takes us down the road of Arminian vs Calvinist arguments. It is an intellectual discussion. Not a bad discussion, but hardly a discussion for noobs. A person coming to Christ needs to know they need a savior; that they cannot save themselves. Yes, KISS. On there other hand. Nothing wrong with exercising the brain: "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;" 2 Timothy 3:16; Noting that 2 Timothy is an epistle, not a gospel. Salvation shouldn't turn off our brains. It should open then with a hunger and thirst for more. Become the kind of person that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan groans and says, "OH CRAP, HE'S AWAKE".