Tuesday, May 01, 2018 3:44:25 PM
sortagreen, conspiracy looks close to a lay down misere. All the way up to Trump. After poking around about
cover-up being a crime in itself, not sure. Cover-up could fall into the realm of making false statements
[ https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/false-statements.html ] and/or obstruction of justice ..
https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/obstruction-of-justice.html. That feels logical.
To experts, as at least we liberals still see it as a useful thing to do.
I asked 12 legal experts if the latest Trump-Russia news showed obstruction of justice
“A policy of dishonesty within the White House would be an investigative jackpot for Mueller.”
By Sean Illing@seanillingsean.illing@vox.com Aug 2, 2017, 8:20am EDT
.. with links ..
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/56005329/669433422.0.jpg)
Photo by Win McNamee/Getty Images
An explosive report by the Washington Post claims that President Trump instructed his son Donald Trump Jr. to release a misleading statement about the latter’s now-infamous June 2016 meeting with a Russian lawyer at Trump Tower.
The report by Ashley Parker, Carol Leonnig, Philip Rucker, and Tom Hamburger says that President Trump “personally dictated” a response that intentionally omitted key facts about the meeting — namely that it was set up to get dirt on Hillary Clinton and, as Donald Jr.’s email thread demonstrated, that the information was “part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”
I reached out to 12 law professors and asked them about the potential legal implications of this report. In particular, I wanted to know if this advances the obstruction of justice case against President Trump.
The overwhelming consensus is that if Trump did dictate false statements about his son’s meeting in order to deceive the public and throw off investigators, it would add to a “growing mountain of evidence” that points to a broader cover-up. As Samuel Gross, a law professor at the University of Michigan, put it: “It’s another brick that could someday be part of a wall that proves obstruction of justice.”
It would also, according to the Associate Dean of Yale Law School Asha Rangappa, “expose everyone who was present to questioning by Mueller’s team about what they saw and heard during that discussion.”
Their full responses, lightly edited for clarity and style, are below.
Asha Rangappa, associate dean, Yale Law School
Ordering subordinates to lie in an ongoing federal investigation can indeed be grounds for obstruction of justice, and an agreement to go along with such a policy could be a conspiracy to obstruct or defraud the United States. However, in my experience, an FBI agent’s best friend in these circumstances is 18 USC 1001, which makes it a crime — even if you are not under oath — to knowingly misrepresent a material fact in any matter within the jurisdiction of the government of the United States.
False statements and obstruction of justice can often go hand in hand, but from a prosecutor’s point of view it’s easier to prove false statements because you only need to show that the person acted “knowingly and willfully,” rather than “corruptly,” which is the intent requirement for obstruction (and harder to prove). Also, it’s pretty easy to catch someone in a lie. Usually, all the FBI needs to do is simply show up (often unexpectedly), and start asking questions, and sooner or later the subject — particularly one who is, say, trying to protect their boss — will dig themselves into a hole.
What the president has done in allegedly dictating a false statement about his son’s meeting with the Russians is to expose everyone who was present to questioning by Mueller’s team about what they saw and heard during that discussion. If they lie and get caught, they’ll be looking at jail time: Each false statement carries a penalty of up to five years in prison, and those can add up quickly. At that point, Mueller will have the leverage to offer immunity from prosecution if they provide information on other topics or individuals of interest to him in the Russia investigation. In short, a “policy of dishonesty” within the White House would be an investigative jackpot for Mueller and the cases he is building, and if there is such a policy, the latest news gives him yet another chance to exploit it.
Joshua Dressler, law professor, Ohio State University
More good stuff - https://www.vox.com/2017/8/2/16075404/donald-trump-jr-russia-investigation-mueller-obstruction
from a non-expert view all of those experts pretty much look on the same page.
The false statements, i guess, would only come into play after any individual had been interviewed by the FBI. As of March 29, 2018 that would be
A list of people Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigators have interviewed
CBS News March 29, 2018, 5:51 AM
.. with links ..
Special counsel Robert Mueller and his investigators have interviewed a number of current and former Trump administration and campaign officials. Here are all the people we know so far who have spoken with Mueller's team, as they investigate Russian election meddling and any ties to Trump associates, and the dates when news outlets reported that the meetings had occurred.
June 22, 2017 - CNN reports that National Security Agency (NSA) Director Mike Rogers and Director of National Intelligence (DNI) Dan Coats met with the special counsel. The top intelligence officials, according to CNN, told investigators that Mr. Trump had asked them to publicly state there was no collusion between his campaign representatives and Russians.
Sept. 20, 2017 - Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein interviewed by the special counsel's office about former FBI Director James Comey's firing. Rosenstein is a key figure in any investigative procedures related to Comey. It was Rosenstein who appointed special counsel Robert Mueller after Mr. Trump fired Comey.
Oct. 5, 2017 - CNN reports that the special counsel's office met with the author of the "Trump dossier", former British spy Christopher Steele, over the summer. The unverified dossier alleges ties between Mr. Trump and Russia, and Steele compiled it for the research firm Fusion GPS, which was working on behalf of Democratic operatives.
Oct. 13, 2017 - CBS News confirms former White House chief of staff Reince Priebus met with the special counsel. Priebus' lawyer said he "was voluntarily interviewed." Priebus served as White House chief of staff from the start of Mr. Trump's presidency until July of 2017, when he was replaced by current White House chief of staff John Kelly. Priebus was the president's chief of staff during the time Mr. Trump fired Comey, and the time Mueller was appointed.
Oct. 17, 2017 - Mueller's team meets with Sean Spicer, CBS News confirms. Spicer was White House press secretary from the start of the Trump administration until July, and as the to White House spokesperson during that time, Spicer is believed to have been privy to some of the administration's most important and sensitive information.
Oct. 31, 2017 - NBC Reports Sam Clovis has been interviewed by the special counsel's office and the grand jury. Clovis, a former top Trump campaign official, supervised George Papadopoulos, the former Trump aide who pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI.
Nov. 3, 2017 - Dutch lawyer Alex Van Der Zwaan is interviewed by the special counsel's office and the FBI, and apparently misled officials about his communication with former Trump campaign aide Rick Gates. Van Der Zwaan later pleaded guilty to lying to FBI officials during that interview.
Nov. 3, 2017 - CBS confirms that there have been at least four special counsel office meetings with current and former Trump White House staff, but none with top officials. The interviews up to this point had only been with mid to lower-level officials.
Nov. 9, 2017 - Mueller has interviewed Stephen Miller, CBS News confirms. Miller is a senior adviser to the president, and has been key in pushing key agenda items for Mr. Trump, particularly immigration restrictions.
Nov. 16, 2017 - CBS News reports that Georgian-American businessman Ike Kaveladze spent more than two hours at Mueller's office. Kaveladze is believed to have been present at the June 2016 Trump tower meeting with Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner and a Russian lawyer.
Nov. 29, 2017 - CBS News confirms that Jared Kushner was interviewed by the special counsel. Sources familiar with the process say the interview occurred the first week of November and lasted about 90 minutes. Kushner was present in the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting, and as Mr. Trump's son-in-law and senior adviser, has been privy to extensive sensitive information. Kushner's legal team has handed over records related to Comey's firing.
Nov. 30, 2017 - White House counsel Don McGahn is interviewed by special counsel. McGhan, CBS News has reported, threatened to resign months earlier, in June 2017. Around that time, Mr. Trump discussed the possibility of firing Mueller.
December 8, 2017 - It is reported and later confirmed by CBS News that Hope Hicks has met with the special counsel's office. Hicks, who is now departing as White House communications director, was with Mr. Trump since the beginning of his campaign.
Dec. 11, 2017- The Wall Street Journal reports that former acting attorney general Sally Yates has been interviewed by the special counsel's office to discuss her meetings with White House officials. According to the Journal, Yates expressed concerns she had about the White House's handling of Mike Flynn, the former national security adviser ousted for misleading Vice President Mike Flynn about his contacts with Russian officials.
Jan. 23, 2018 - CBS News confirms Mueller interviewed Sessions the prior week. Sessions has been repeatedly ridiculed by Mr. Trump for recusing himself from the Russia probe.
Jan. 23, 2018 - CBS News confirms Mueller interviewed Comey in December. Comey, who has claimed Mr. Trump asked for his loyalty and pressured him to drop the Flynn matter, has been quite vocal on social media in the months since his firing and will soon be releasing a book on leadership.
Jan. 24, 2018 - CBS News confirms that special counsel has interviewed CIA Director Mike Pompeo, Coats, and Rogers.
Feb. 1, 2018 - Rick Gates interviewed by the special counsel's office. Later in the month, Gates pleads guilty to financial fraud and lying to investigators.
Feb.15, 2018 - CBS News' Paula Reid reports Mueller spoke to former Trump legal team spokesman Mark Corallo for 2.5 hours.
March 6, 2018 - George Nader, a top Arab Emirates adviser, has met in recent weeks with the special counsel's office and has been before the grand jury. Nader is reportedly cooperating with Mueller's investigation.
March 17, 2018 - Paula Reid reports that former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe has been interviewed by the special counsel. McCabe, who has been criticized intensely by Mr. Trump, was fired by Sessions two days before he could retire this month. FBI officials had recommended that McCabe be fired, ahead of a DOJ inspector general report expected to be critical of McCabe.
CBS News' Clare Hymes, Eleanor Watson and Kathryn Watson contributed to this report.
© 2018 CBS Interactive Inc.
.. with links .. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-list-of-people-special-counsel-robert-muellers-investigators-have-interviewed/
cover-up being a crime in itself, not sure. Cover-up could fall into the realm of making false statements
[ https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/false-statements.html ] and/or obstruction of justice ..
https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/obstruction-of-justice.html. That feels logical.
To experts, as at least we liberals still see it as a useful thing to do.
I asked 12 legal experts if the latest Trump-Russia news showed obstruction of justice
“A policy of dishonesty within the White House would be an investigative jackpot for Mueller.”
By Sean Illing@seanillingsean.illing@vox.com Aug 2, 2017, 8:20am EDT
.. with links ..
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/56005329/669433422.0.jpg)
Photo by Win McNamee/Getty Images
An explosive report by the Washington Post claims that President Trump instructed his son Donald Trump Jr. to release a misleading statement about the latter’s now-infamous June 2016 meeting with a Russian lawyer at Trump Tower.
The report by Ashley Parker, Carol Leonnig, Philip Rucker, and Tom Hamburger says that President Trump “personally dictated” a response that intentionally omitted key facts about the meeting — namely that it was set up to get dirt on Hillary Clinton and, as Donald Jr.’s email thread demonstrated, that the information was “part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”
I reached out to 12 law professors and asked them about the potential legal implications of this report. In particular, I wanted to know if this advances the obstruction of justice case against President Trump.
The overwhelming consensus is that if Trump did dictate false statements about his son’s meeting in order to deceive the public and throw off investigators, it would add to a “growing mountain of evidence” that points to a broader cover-up. As Samuel Gross, a law professor at the University of Michigan, put it: “It’s another brick that could someday be part of a wall that proves obstruction of justice.”
It would also, according to the Associate Dean of Yale Law School Asha Rangappa, “expose everyone who was present to questioning by Mueller’s team about what they saw and heard during that discussion.”
Their full responses, lightly edited for clarity and style, are below.
Asha Rangappa, associate dean, Yale Law School
Ordering subordinates to lie in an ongoing federal investigation can indeed be grounds for obstruction of justice, and an agreement to go along with such a policy could be a conspiracy to obstruct or defraud the United States. However, in my experience, an FBI agent’s best friend in these circumstances is 18 USC 1001, which makes it a crime — even if you are not under oath — to knowingly misrepresent a material fact in any matter within the jurisdiction of the government of the United States.
False statements and obstruction of justice can often go hand in hand, but from a prosecutor’s point of view it’s easier to prove false statements because you only need to show that the person acted “knowingly and willfully,” rather than “corruptly,” which is the intent requirement for obstruction (and harder to prove). Also, it’s pretty easy to catch someone in a lie. Usually, all the FBI needs to do is simply show up (often unexpectedly), and start asking questions, and sooner or later the subject — particularly one who is, say, trying to protect their boss — will dig themselves into a hole.
What the president has done in allegedly dictating a false statement about his son’s meeting with the Russians is to expose everyone who was present to questioning by Mueller’s team about what they saw and heard during that discussion. If they lie and get caught, they’ll be looking at jail time: Each false statement carries a penalty of up to five years in prison, and those can add up quickly. At that point, Mueller will have the leverage to offer immunity from prosecution if they provide information on other topics or individuals of interest to him in the Russia investigation. In short, a “policy of dishonesty” within the White House would be an investigative jackpot for Mueller and the cases he is building, and if there is such a policy, the latest news gives him yet another chance to exploit it.
Joshua Dressler, law professor, Ohio State University
More good stuff - https://www.vox.com/2017/8/2/16075404/donald-trump-jr-russia-investigation-mueller-obstruction
from a non-expert view all of those experts pretty much look on the same page.
The false statements, i guess, would only come into play after any individual had been interviewed by the FBI. As of March 29, 2018 that would be
A list of people Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigators have interviewed
CBS News March 29, 2018, 5:51 AM
.. with links ..
Special counsel Robert Mueller and his investigators have interviewed a number of current and former Trump administration and campaign officials. Here are all the people we know so far who have spoken with Mueller's team, as they investigate Russian election meddling and any ties to Trump associates, and the dates when news outlets reported that the meetings had occurred.
June 22, 2017 - CNN reports that National Security Agency (NSA) Director Mike Rogers and Director of National Intelligence (DNI) Dan Coats met with the special counsel. The top intelligence officials, according to CNN, told investigators that Mr. Trump had asked them to publicly state there was no collusion between his campaign representatives and Russians.
Sept. 20, 2017 - Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein interviewed by the special counsel's office about former FBI Director James Comey's firing. Rosenstein is a key figure in any investigative procedures related to Comey. It was Rosenstein who appointed special counsel Robert Mueller after Mr. Trump fired Comey.
Oct. 5, 2017 - CNN reports that the special counsel's office met with the author of the "Trump dossier", former British spy Christopher Steele, over the summer. The unverified dossier alleges ties between Mr. Trump and Russia, and Steele compiled it for the research firm Fusion GPS, which was working on behalf of Democratic operatives.
Oct. 13, 2017 - CBS News confirms former White House chief of staff Reince Priebus met with the special counsel. Priebus' lawyer said he "was voluntarily interviewed." Priebus served as White House chief of staff from the start of Mr. Trump's presidency until July of 2017, when he was replaced by current White House chief of staff John Kelly. Priebus was the president's chief of staff during the time Mr. Trump fired Comey, and the time Mueller was appointed.
Oct. 17, 2017 - Mueller's team meets with Sean Spicer, CBS News confirms. Spicer was White House press secretary from the start of the Trump administration until July, and as the to White House spokesperson during that time, Spicer is believed to have been privy to some of the administration's most important and sensitive information.
Oct. 31, 2017 - NBC Reports Sam Clovis has been interviewed by the special counsel's office and the grand jury. Clovis, a former top Trump campaign official, supervised George Papadopoulos, the former Trump aide who pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI.
Nov. 3, 2017 - Dutch lawyer Alex Van Der Zwaan is interviewed by the special counsel's office and the FBI, and apparently misled officials about his communication with former Trump campaign aide Rick Gates. Van Der Zwaan later pleaded guilty to lying to FBI officials during that interview.
Nov. 3, 2017 - CBS confirms that there have been at least four special counsel office meetings with current and former Trump White House staff, but none with top officials. The interviews up to this point had only been with mid to lower-level officials.
Nov. 9, 2017 - Mueller has interviewed Stephen Miller, CBS News confirms. Miller is a senior adviser to the president, and has been key in pushing key agenda items for Mr. Trump, particularly immigration restrictions.
Nov. 16, 2017 - CBS News reports that Georgian-American businessman Ike Kaveladze spent more than two hours at Mueller's office. Kaveladze is believed to have been present at the June 2016 Trump tower meeting with Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner and a Russian lawyer.
Nov. 29, 2017 - CBS News confirms that Jared Kushner was interviewed by the special counsel. Sources familiar with the process say the interview occurred the first week of November and lasted about 90 minutes. Kushner was present in the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting, and as Mr. Trump's son-in-law and senior adviser, has been privy to extensive sensitive information. Kushner's legal team has handed over records related to Comey's firing.
Nov. 30, 2017 - White House counsel Don McGahn is interviewed by special counsel. McGhan, CBS News has reported, threatened to resign months earlier, in June 2017. Around that time, Mr. Trump discussed the possibility of firing Mueller.
December 8, 2017 - It is reported and later confirmed by CBS News that Hope Hicks has met with the special counsel's office. Hicks, who is now departing as White House communications director, was with Mr. Trump since the beginning of his campaign.
Dec. 11, 2017- The Wall Street Journal reports that former acting attorney general Sally Yates has been interviewed by the special counsel's office to discuss her meetings with White House officials. According to the Journal, Yates expressed concerns she had about the White House's handling of Mike Flynn, the former national security adviser ousted for misleading Vice President Mike Flynn about his contacts with Russian officials.
Jan. 23, 2018 - CBS News confirms Mueller interviewed Sessions the prior week. Sessions has been repeatedly ridiculed by Mr. Trump for recusing himself from the Russia probe.
Jan. 23, 2018 - CBS News confirms Mueller interviewed Comey in December. Comey, who has claimed Mr. Trump asked for his loyalty and pressured him to drop the Flynn matter, has been quite vocal on social media in the months since his firing and will soon be releasing a book on leadership.
Jan. 24, 2018 - CBS News confirms that special counsel has interviewed CIA Director Mike Pompeo, Coats, and Rogers.
Feb. 1, 2018 - Rick Gates interviewed by the special counsel's office. Later in the month, Gates pleads guilty to financial fraud and lying to investigators.
Feb.15, 2018 - CBS News' Paula Reid reports Mueller spoke to former Trump legal team spokesman Mark Corallo for 2.5 hours.
March 6, 2018 - George Nader, a top Arab Emirates adviser, has met in recent weeks with the special counsel's office and has been before the grand jury. Nader is reportedly cooperating with Mueller's investigation.
March 17, 2018 - Paula Reid reports that former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe has been interviewed by the special counsel. McCabe, who has been criticized intensely by Mr. Trump, was fired by Sessions two days before he could retire this month. FBI officials had recommended that McCabe be fired, ahead of a DOJ inspector general report expected to be critical of McCabe.
CBS News' Clare Hymes, Eleanor Watson and Kathryn Watson contributed to this report.
© 2018 CBS Interactive Inc.
.. with links .. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-list-of-people-special-counsel-robert-muellers-investigators-have-interviewed/
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