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Based on today's price action and volume, it looks like someone took your advice and got screwed like oh so many others who believed there was something in all this nothing !
Great responses, thanks. FRTW intrigues me for similar reasons.....it appears to be poised to increase production and earnings. I hope those little silk worms are busy spinning or whatever it is they do to produce the raw material. I'm in and looking forward to an increasing awareness of FRTW's potential.
I apologize if my post was redundant...sometimes I miss material that has been posted previously.
Unless I'm mistaken (which I am OFTEN) a chartist contends that by graphing the past financial activity of a given security that it is possible to identify recurring trends. Now I''m not saying that's wrong. What I AM saying is that squiggly lines on a chart don't mean much to me. If you look at the historical trading of this stock over the past months, charting it graphically by (PPS) it would yield a relatively flat line. Suddenly, it semi erupts and this indicates something to a chatist ?
What I would like to know is....the plant appears to be working at half capacity. The EPS is in the red. Is there less of a world wide market for silk at the moment ? Do these people EXPORT the product ? Why is the plant working at 50% ?
I don't know that a chart will answer those questions but I'm certain a chartist will tell you it is of no significance. A flaming candlestick or a teacup or the MA and its extensions, Exponential MA, Dual MA, Triple MA, MACD are all you must know in order to invest.
This sounds like an attack on chartists but it is not. It's just that I simply don't understand the underlying science of charts but a 70% success is nothing to sneeze at.
For those few who are attempting to do true DD....
Ethanol vs. Natural Gas or Coal: Comparison Not Even Close
You are currently following Joseph L. Shaefer
:
* Joseph L. Shaefer's articles on Seeking Alpha
The twisted, tortuous tale of ethanol as the great hope for an energy-independent America holds an object lesson for us all. What I wrote in my most recent article for SA, on a different subject, holds equally true here:
Entrepreneurs make money; early investors make money; and later investors make money if the business model is a good one and is able to adapt to changing conditions. But bureaucrats and politicians? They take money, they don’t make it! By the time a light bulb goes off over their heads to ride a successful wave, the wave has passed, friends. And they are left out at sea, after dark, with some mighty hungry sharks.
That’s exactly what happened with ethanol. Politicians and bureaucrats decided, against the advice of many geologists, ecologists and biologists who understood these things, that they needed to “do something.” It didn’t have to be the right thing as long as it made them look like they were "taking action." They swallowed and then regurgitated enough bad information to fool themselves and the rest of us, but long after the rest of us have caught on, they are still unwilling to admit they were wrong. There may have been some good intentions here but, like the man said, “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.”
To begin, what is ethanol? It is basically a combustible alcohol made from plant material. It’s been used almost since the first Model Ts rolled off the assembly line but it didn’t catch on big-time until Your Government at Work decided to massively subsidize its production, using tax dollars to pay for subsidies to develop ethanol rather than something deemed less important like, say, fixing crumbling bridges or cleaning up government-agency pollution.
Ethanol for our cars can be mixed with gasoline in concentrations up to 10% without any modification to the drive train. Anything higher than this concentration, you’ll need to modify the engine or risk engine damage because of the higher corrosiveness of ethanol.
In Brazil, most cars are designed to run on a 25% ethanol / 75% gasoline (“gasohol”) blend. But this just goes to show that a solution in one place is not always readily transported to another. In Brazil, they make their ethanol from sugar cane which takes about 1 unit of sugar cane, production and human labor energy to produce 8 or more units of ethanol energy. Sugar cane grows like a weed along the equator and in the tropics. The sun does 90% of the work – the only energy we need to add is to fertilize, harvest and process the stuff.
In the US, however – farther from the benevolent equatorial sun – it takes 1 unit of crop cultivation and labor energy to produce just *1 to 3* unit of ethanol energy – and that doesn’t include transporting it from processing plant to end user. Instead of sugar cane, Americans typically use corn as our crop for energy. We are using a plant that has cash-crop value and could be sold for its nutritional value instead of converting it to energy for transportation. This results in a huge diversion of agricultural land from food production – and one that typically uses large amounts of scarce fossil fuels to power the ethanol production plants and beyond-common-sense amounts of water to process it.
Proponents like to say that we are currently only at step one, however, and the ideal, once we can figure out how to break it down to a usable liquid form, is to use the residue left in the fields after the edible corn has been harvested for food – the stalk, husk, leaves, and cob (collectively called the “stover”). Or to use the chaff left over after wheat is harvested, or trees specifically grown for use in ethanol production, or native prairie switchgrass or some other fast-growing weed. The problem is, no one is yet able to do this outside the lab (“But with enough grants and subsidies we think we could, honest!”)
On the good side, ethanol is at least easily transportable -- using fossil fuels to do so, of course. We can’t use existing oil or gas pipelines because of the corrosive nature of ethanol. So to figure the economics of ethanol honestly we’ll have to take into account the energy needed to mine and fabricate the new metals needed and the labor to transport them and lay them into the ground and maintain them if ethanol is to be anything but a hobby for Congressmen buying votes from farmers. Also on the good side of the ledger, if/as we figure out how to break down this tougher cellulose sometime in the future, cellulosic ethanol would have a lesser environmental impact than current fossil fuels.
On the bad side, ethanol’s energy density is about half that of the fossil fuels so it will require twice as much of the stuff to get the same bang for the buck. And until we can figure out cellulosic ethanol production, the sugar and corn we currently use will remain at higher prices than they would if the only demand was for food use. Remember when ethanol first caught on big in 2007? The price of corn tortillas, a dietary staple in Mexico, rose 400%. As the brilliant American microbiologist and ecologist Garrett Hardin once said, “We are limited by the basic theorem of ecology, ‘We can never do merely one thing.’ "
Unintended consequences lurk in every decision, even those well- and slowly-considered -- which this, of course, was not. Ethanol and other biofuels now consume 17 percent of the world’s grain harvest. If we continue to clear land of native vegetation to create “fuel crops” we risk releasing far more CO2 into the atmosphere (estimates range from 10 times more to 400 times more) than if we just stuck with extracting fossil fuels and used nuclear, hydro, geothermal, wind and solar as supplemental sources.
There is the further problem that corn ethanol uses 3 to 6 gallons of water for every gallon of ethanol produced. Water may be abundant and cheap today but it is an increasingly scarce resource the value – and price – of which can only go up. (See here for more on water usage and scarcity.)
Finally, the prospects don't look to improve. We are currently “growing” ethanol in the ideal environment -- in the American Heartland. If this is to be anything but a subsidy program for corn farmers, we must bring on significantly more production to meet the demand. And, while the economics currently don’t justify use of the product without subsidies, the economics get even worse as we expand beyond the optimal soil and climate conditions of Iowa and Nebraska. We cannot duplicate their environment in Oregon or Florida, so as we expand to less-ideal areas, yields will decrease -- and prices will rise.
So – what’s an investor to do? If you are invested in Brazilian ethanol producers, I say you might stand a chance. But in the US, I believe that ethanol faces a dim future except in “pork production” as politicians bring home the bacon by taking dollars from one set of citizens and giving to those in their home district. Ethanol is a product that uses nearly as much energy to make as it provides, and gulps precious water from aquifers to boot. It is a “hobby” fuel, unlike, say, natural gas and coal.
While seeking to harness genuinely renewable energy resources, we should not eschew the giant “batteries” Mother Nature has kindly placed under the earth and sea in the form of natural gas, coal, and (less and less in the USA) oil deposits. These are the absolutely most efficient forms of energy in terms of what it takes in dollars and energy (fuel and labor) to get to them versus the amount of energy they provide for those dollars and energy.
Dr. Charles Hall, professor of Systems Ecology at Syracuse, created the following to demonstrate, in one diagram, a snapshot of the Big Picture for US energy sources, usage and costs.
Just remember this sage advice "Make sure that when you buy low, it is actually low."
That was written by a mathematician and a programming guru..... and a total brainiac at investing ! LOL
Listen to people who KNOW something regarding investing rather than trusting your own faulty reasoning !
Who would not listen to someone who is down $8,911.59 ? If anyone is familiar with ZENG it would be someone who has lost so much ! LOL
What part of "OOOPSIE" don't the ZENG (love it or leave it)pumpers understand ? Can you say DD deficiency ??
Filings on 4450 Copeland Island Rd property See: Page 7/60
Tax ID 3309583 8/4/2009
Plaintiff: Regions Bank Defendant: Luiten Robert
http://www.scribd.com/doc/19126093/null
Tax ID 2298882 Plaintiff Citimort Defendant Luiten
2009043575 7/14/2009 Luiten
Department of the Treasury INT
UCC –Tax Lien 655 1017 20090700119
See: Page 61/67 Page 63/67 Page 67/67
http://www.scribd.com/doc/19217627/null
Look out below !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last...0.0135 Down-0.0035 -20.59% vol. 3,636,745
Same old tune, different day. I could write a script for these pinkie plays. They all follow the same pattern and Lord love the ppl who keep falling for them, time after time after time.
What is the procedure for terminating my subscription ?
Thanks !
$.27 That's a hell of a hit. Guess the market didn't like the 8-k very much eh ?
Anyone see a pattern here ?
Historical Prices
Date Open High Low Close Volume Adj
Close
2009/11/06 0.019 0.019 0.018 0.018 664,168 0.018
2009/11/05 0.020 0.020 0.017 0.018 2,807,845 0.020
2009/10/26 0.023 0.024 0.020 0.021 4,248,196 0.021
2009/10/12 0.022 0.028 0.021 0.023 8,671,495 0.023
2009/09/03 0.027 0.032 0.026 0.027 3,088,590 0.027
2009/09/02 0.031 0.031 0.027 0.028 1,148,545 0.028
2009/08/28 0.027 0.037 0.027 0.036 3,146,593 0.036
2009/08/13 0.047 0.047 0.032 0.045 10,055,485 0.045
2009/08/12 0.078 0.078 0.046 0.047 15,285,280 0.047
2009/08/11 0.095 0.095 0.064 0.070 15,006,928 0.070
2009/08/10 0.080 0.12 0.080 0.096 22,597,279 0.096
Sent to CEO 11/09/2009
Truth be told, with what you have conveyed to me thus far, I don't believe a phone call would provide the substance that most investors are seeking. Besides that, I tend to become verbally abrasive when faced with language couched in obfuscation (but that's just me).
Researching your background, it would appear that none of your efforts thus far have resulted in anything of particular value and I see nothing different on the horizon. Possibly, your "plans" will come to fruition and you will compose a blockbuster PR announcement that will knock everyone's socks off. You must forgive me though if I am skeptical.
I wish you good luck in your endeavors Matthew and I sincerely hope something does come from your efforts this time. In the interim, I think I will attempt to find a legitimate investment.
In all fairness, I received THIS follow up e mail. It does nothing to inform, it just reiterates what was said in his previous e mail.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It is not in my or the company’s best interest to explain in detail one by one to shareholders what is coming. I can assure you I am working on several things including increasing the number of existing customers in the pipeline for processing, payment gateway setups to be completed, as well as 2 large opportunities to move SNPY to the next level.
I was in NYC 2 weeks ago and have provisional approval for funding of large projects should they come to pass and related SNPY build out.
I will be determining in the next week whether or not it makes sense to wait for larger news items or to kick out small bits of news as they are signed or become available.
Again, without getting into specifics, SNPY has a long way to go and we are just getting started.
If this is not specific enough for you then give me a call to discuss further.
Regards,
Matthew Mecke
Chairman & CEO
Sino Payments, Inc.
www.sinopayments.com
Unit T25, GF Bangkok Bank Building 228 Park Avenue S #15210
18 Bonham Strand West New York, NY 10003-1502
Sheung Wan, Hong Kong USA
HK Tel: +852 8121 4220 US Tel: 203.652.0130
HK Fax: +852 3579 2013
p.s. I have been in payment processing in Asia for the last 12 years including the buildout of other nasdaq and otcbb companies in the region. SNPY is not a fly by night or other scam and the opportunities continue to come in and at the moment we are extremely confident of the future. That said, will everything happen in the next 5 days….no the buildout process is going well and will continue
Here ya go SNPY stockholders. News from the CEO for what it's worth......NOTHING. Good luck !!!!!
Dear Mr. Mecke,
I am a shareholder of SNPY and I wonder if we have progressed beyond the "planning" stages yet. Are there clients that we are servicing as of this date or is the business still in the throes of getting off the ground ?
I read the release regarding the possibility of mergers and/or acquisitions. I just wondered if there is a business extant at this time AND, do you plan to increase the AS as well as the float to help finance your M&A plans ?
Thank you in advance for your reply
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear XXXXX,
Let me get back to you but yes SNPY is a real company with a bright future.
I just arrived back to my place in China and am swamped with emails and paperwork.
Get back to you soon.
Regards,
Matthew Mecke
Chairman & CEO
Sino Payments, Inc. (OTCBB: SNPY)
www.sinopayments.com
Unit T25, GF Bangkok Bank Building 228 Park Avenue South18 Bonham Strand West #15210Sheung Wan, Hong Kong New York, NY 10003
T: +852 8121 4220 T: +1 203 652 0130
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well Matthew,
Far be it for me to tell you how to conduct your business but it might behoove you to post some information regarding what is happening with SNPY because there is an informational void. I DID read some vague reference to "clients" but without specificity. I would be more than happy to invest in SNPY if there is in fact anything at all to invest in other than blue sky.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear XXXXXXX
As you can imagine there are many things I am not able to discuss with individual shareholders.
News and developments are continuing and will be ongoing.
The attached is an old IR brochure with some relevant information but is a bit old.
Regards,
Matthew Mecke
Chairman & CEO
Sino Payments, Inc. (OTCBB: SNPY)
www.sinopayments.com
Unit T25, GF Bangkok Bank Building 228 Park Avenue South
18 Bonham Strand West #15210
Sheung Wan, Hong Kong New York, NY 10003
T: +852 8121 4220 T: +1 203 652 013
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well Matt, I hope you don't mind me calling you Matt, I am 73 years old and undoubtedly your senior by a few years. Your reply is what can be termed disingenuous. I'm not asking for preferential (insider) information. I am saying that you need to (1. hire an IR firm because you are doing a really lousy job (2. identify just exactly what it is you are doing at the moment. A "dated" disclosure does absolutely nothing.
If you have not been aware of the fact that shareholders have abandoned SNPY, please be aware of it now. If you are conducting some sort of business with some sort of revenue, now is the time to declare it, otherwise your stock is going down the proverbial tubes.
Too many times have CEO's of worthless penny stocks hidden behind the "unable to disclose material facts to individual investors" BS. Unless there is some sort of public disclosure issued post haste, I can guarantee you that your $.04 cent stock offering will very soon become a $.0001 stock offering. I can guarantee you that !
Nowhere near as painful as cactus toilet tissue. Oweeeee !
Yeah, PSC really NEEDS ZENG.
That's what they're in business to do...bash.
That must be the "heard" mentality. ROFLMAO
It means just exactly what it says. It cannot say it more plainly and it should have been obvious to everyone.
"It has become apparent to us that the management and financiers behind some penny stock companies are negligent and greedy."
That's a great philosophy until averaging down turns into catching a falling knife at which time you find your little pinkies severed. You must have great faith in not only the stock but the system and I find my faith in the system flagging at times. CCGY should do well over the long haul but those who bailed and said they would look at other plays weren't necessarily wrong.
The way things have been lately, flipping looks to be as good a strategy as any. Holding long may or may not pan out. Who knows.
De Shadow do that's who !
That's terrific. Now if they just had a business, everything would be hunky dory. As it is, they have SQUAT. Their IR also does not respond to stockholder's inquiries. Good luck to YOU ! I'm out and trying to recoup by other means.
Did I try to call Hong Kong ? Naw, my Mandarin sucks. I took the loss and bailed. To me, it looks as though they have nothing other than a business plan....... and that is to go into business someday ! No revenue, no contracts, nothing ! Rotsa brue sky !
They can run but they can't hide. It's just a matter of time. I think it's called twisting in the wind or "hoist with their own petards".
Instead of Due Diligence, some of you people think DD means Dumb Decisions
Houston Biodiesel Plant For Sale
By Clifford Krauss
The GreenHunter logo.
When the $70 million GreenHunter Energy biodiesel refinery opened on the Houston Ship Channel almost exactly a year ago with the capacity to produce 105 million gallons of fuel a year, Texas Gov. Rick Perry bragged that the plant embodied “the future of energy in Texas and the United States.”
But on Tuesday The Houston Chronicle reported that GreenHunter is financially strapped and seeking to sell the plant. The refinery — reported by The Chronicle to be the country’s largest — has been idled the last four months due to low demand for fuel in the United States, as well as new trade barriers imposed by Europe on American biodiesel exports. Damages from last summer’s Hurricane Ike didn’t help matters either.
Whatever you don't do let facts get in the way of your brainiac investment ideas.
________________________________________________________________
* By John Carey
Business Week, April 16, 2009
It's a bold vision: Replace billions of gallons of gasoline not with ethanol from corn or other food crops but with biofuels made from plants, such as prairie grass in Tennessee pastures or algae percolating in Florida. Such a move would slash dependence on oil, create thousands of jobs, and reduce emissions that contribute to global warming. In the U.S., the idea has powerful political support. Congress has decreed that the country must be using 21 billion gallons of "advanced" biofuels a year by 2022. Washington is backing that goal with tax breaks, loan guarantees, and scores of millions of dollars in grants, with more support expected in upcoming energy bills. These inducements and the vast potential market have stimulated investments of more than $3 billion and spawned a new industry.
More than 200 companies, from 12-person startups to oil giants, are developing next-generation biofuels using a bewildering array of technologies. Pilot and demonstration plants are operating or are under construction from Florida to California. "We can't have it all: more fuel, more food, and fewer carbon emissions," says John B. Howe, vice-president of Verenium (VRNM), a Cambridge (Mass.) company that makes ethanol from sugarcane waste at a demonstration plant in Jennings, La.
Yet behind the very real innovations and investments, the brash claims and the breathless headlines, lies an inconvenient truth. Replacing petroleum with biofuels is a tough business. Even as the industry develops, most of the companies will not survive. "We've seen a venture capital-led bubble," says Alan Shaw, CEO of Codexis, a Redwood City (Calif.) manufacturer of enzymes used to make drugs, chemicals, and biofuels. "I cannot see how the companies can build a business and still get a return to their investors. The numbers just don't add up."
A 19 cent run on CKGT today. That cactus pig feed must be causing a big stir. Word has it that they are putting nicotine in the pig feed to get them addicted and putting pig feed into the cactus cigarettes to get people to break the nicotine habit !
Hey burp, I've got it. You can send them an e mail that reads....
You dirty lats, you ried to us !!!
You can speculate and come up with all kinds of scenarios but your statement regarding the reason for the plant expansion holds more water. Why would they expend that kind of money without a reasonable expectation that it would be beneficial to their income ? Considering the fact that companies in China are doing much better than the majority of companies in the U.S. I think I would give them credit for their ability to make a profit.
Do you know a good lawyer in Jiangyin ? If not you might try the yellow pages !
Well, you can sell......or sue them maybe. I didn't hear the conference call so I can't comment !
From the IR guy........
China Clean Energy sells mostly on the spot market. That is why you have not seen contract announcements.
NO CONTRACTS GUYS. THEY SELL ON THE SPOT MARKET SO STOP LOOKING FOR CONTRACT NEWS !
Amen to that bro. And while we're at it, let us not forget Steve Sulja who was involved up to his Apostolic azz. Good old Steve has been making a few bucks here and there as a procurer. (You DO know what they call procurers don't you?) He be de superfly middle man in de transaction. Even though he doesn't exactly rake it in, every little bit helps when it comes to restitution. It would do my little black heart good to see Sulja, PV, and the rest of the scumsuckers raked over the coals. Nothing too good for our northern cousins.
Oh, by the way, the Defense Contract Management Agency was very interested in what I had to say about Sulja and IT CCT LLC and his contracts with the DOD. It seems that Canada is giving Yanks who work in Canada a hard time. Let's hear it for reciprocity. I(we) have the Elmira bunker to thank for their inspirational goading regarding NAIC codes.
Oh my, does this mean that you believe that Steve Sulja lied ? Do you think that your celebrated CEO would SELECTIVELY lie or was everything he said a lie ? Do you believe that he said he was duped to avoid prosecution but that everything else he said was totally truthful ? As a practitioner of the Apostolic Christian faith would it not be a mortal sin for Stevo to lie ?
Could this be construed as dissembling on your part Hock ?
The duped or "rope a dope" conversation wasn't conducted with jannie. It was with Gary Rennie as you well know. Don't make me scrounge around in the SLJB muck and garbage to once again find the link in order to satisfy what I know is coming next from you i.e. ......... send the link. Oh well, here it is from the Windsor Star
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Windsor lawyer Dan Scott, who represents three of the defendants, including Petar Vucicevich of Colchester, said Thursday he's expecting a trial to start soon.
"Petar is very anxious to start dealing with this," Scott said.
Scott said the RCMP has been in touch with him, but he doesn't know where that investigation is heading.
RCMP Sgt. Marc LaPorte of Toronto said the force doesn't comment on investigations.
An OSC hearing is scheduled for Monday in Toronto, but Scott expects it to be adjourned.
The OSC allegations name Sulja Bros., Vucicevich, who was a former CEO of the company, and a Windsor-based company called Kore International Management Inc., which was run by Vucicevich.
The OSC also alleges a U.S.-based Kore company with ties to Texas resident Andrew DeVries had a role in what it described as a "pump and dump scheme."
Throughout 2006, the OSC alleges numerous false news releases touting deals worth hundreds of millions of dollars were issued on behalf of Sulja Bros., which trades in electronic penny stock markets as SLJB.
At the same time, the OSC says the stock was being sold to investors around the world using brokerage accounts in the names of Kore employees.
The OSC says Vucicevich's Kore company got $3 million from stock sales in 2006, plus an additional US$2.7 million and then $4.7 million from the U.S. Kore company during the end of 2006 and early 2007.
Thursday's allegations add as defendants Steve Sulja, his brother Sam and Kore employees Tracey Banumas of Harrow and Pranab Shah of Windsor.
In an interview last September, Steve Sulja said his family's Harrow lumberyard sold its accounts receivable and payable, but not land or buildings, to Vucicevich in what he called a "handshake deal."
He said family members only got a fraction of what they were promised by Vucicevich.
Sulja, who also became CEO of the Nevada-incorporated Sulja company, said he was duped into believing big overseas deals were being pulled off by Vucicevich.
It seems to me you people would want to know the date of the "resurrection". Don't you think it would be fitting for the CEO of this defunct POS to advise all of the loyalists as to when that might occur ? Or maybe the date of the imminent event is already known by the members of the "Elmira bunker boyz". If you're not a member of the inner sanctum you might want to check with them when evaluating your financial position. I think one of them has already made an offer on a Caribbean island.
Au contraire mon amie, he has proven that Phineas Taylor Barnum was correct. This way people to see the egress.
Stevo hasn't had the guts to address the long suffering and disillusioned "longs" much less comment on the trial. Don't forget, he had his good ole farm boy shoe prints all over the bogus PR's they were putting out for months.
I wonder if Stevo has a green card. I wonder if there is reciprocity between Canada and the U.S. regarding citizens working. If Sulja is working in Livonia, Michigan, where is he living ? He must have worked out a deal with the Crown that exempts him from prosecution. I wonder how many of the other "loyal crew" have made similar arrangements. I also wonder when and if Sulja will ever make a public statement regarding the Sulja travesty other than what he related to Rennie.
All will be revealed in time. The wheels of justice turn slowly but they do move.
When you look at the absolute garbage that is offered, you wonder what people are thinking. The problem is public perception. Apparently, fundamentals make little or no difference. Disheartening to say the least.
Kind of a case of the glass half empty or half full isn't it ? MAY as opposed to SHALL. I'm not into arguing the point. I guess what I'm attempting to point out is....those who say there are other places to put their money may be right, at the moment. There are always momo plays at work.....however they come and go, rise and fall. Take CKGT for example. It had a what, 20 - 25 cent run and then came whizzing on back. If you time it right I guess you can make money. I can neither time things right OR make money it seems so.....do what you think is best !