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perhaps tsingda competitors might want our shares one day.... not that we own enough to be of significance, but you never know
But frankly I find it unconscionable that EBIG would make a deal for themselves for these shares, and not on our behalf at the same time.
Konshe please go read an introductory chapter about stocks.
This is not about marketing. They need evidence of an increasing revenue stream and then people will buy.
Konshe, the value of the company is based on assets and debts.
Right now, there is no expected increase in revenue. THAT'S what will guide market activity.
Either companies are brought public... companies that people want to buy, or CBMG puts out some blockbuster news of some drug. The drug doesn't have to be publicly available for years, it just has to have big money-making potential.
The last thing they need to do is spend money on some expert to crunch numbers.
They need to do one thing: generate an income stream. Period. If they can do that, people will buy stock.
The price is low because the company has not done enough to make new investors have any degree of confidence. Tsingda would have been powerful. But Wonder came in with a whimper not a bang.
The numbers are much lower than anticipated (despite being up so much from previous quarters).. but they're lower because no one is buying Wonder. And now they say they've hired 2 PR firms? What does that mean, more money to TheOTCInvestor?
And why'd they wait 2 months to get some PR going???? Why not drum up excitement in anticipation of an IPO????? That's a one-time opportunity and it's lost.
For goodness sakes, this is not an area of expertise for me, but I feel like they could make use of my advice. Hell, I've had to tell them to make sure the websites for Tsingda and Wonder were professionally written instead of using an online translator.
Anybody else look at their websites in the past? They looked like they were written by 13 year old.
I am underwhelmed. I am holding my shares. I believe that if/when this stock moves with real volume, it will SOAR. But it will need some compelling data for that to happen. Merging with a drug company???? is an act of desperation... how could either company benefit.. sheeeh.
oh well.
What are you talking about? After years of effort, they have brought one company public. The "millions" they have is a result of the stock that they own in that company... which has dropped from $2.50 to $1.50 in less than 2 months of trading.
There's nothing to cheer about if the companies they bring to market lose value rather than appreciate. Hopefully this only temporary, but come on .. 1800 shares have traded today. That's not what I call "promising".
How many did they say were going to go public this year?
This is a great first step, but they lost the big one, Tsingda.... and they can't even find anyone to buy those shares back. That functionally makes those Tsingda shares worthless. Norm and Keith got very nice salaries, but did not accomplish what they said they would.
I would like to see them under promise and over deliver.
Just once. Seriously. Just once.
ST220, it's up over 30%.
color me radical, but in my world that's considered "rising".
EBIG paid TheOTC Investor $27,000.00 in 2010 and $15,000.00 in 2012 as compensation for the articles they did. That's hardly objective.
Frankly, I'd like to see someone singing their praises who doesn't get compensated for it, and who has no skin in the game.
They cannot be thought of as any kind of fund. That takes big money, all kinds of licenses, very very expensive. In fact if I recall correctly, there was something about the SEC or some agency investigating them with respect to something similar a few years ago and they went to great lengths to prove/demonstrate that they were NOT in that type of business.
I think if management needed pocket money they would have sold 2 months ago at double or triple what the seller got today (for various tranches of stock). They knew there was no big marketing blitz pushing folks to buy Wonder or Ebig, and they also probably knew what was going to happen with Wonder's (lack of) trading and consequently Ebig's pps.
I figure somebody just got fed up and sold all they had and we're green for the day.. go figure.
I got my ebig shares from prvh, and don't remember a thing about it. Just a penny stock I took on a flyer and have held.
Konshe, in order to sue someone you need grounds.
Losing money, is not grounds. Being slow, is not grounds. You being unhappy or greedy, is not grounds.
You need to break a law, and you need evidence of that law being broken.
What law was broken, what evidence do you have? How do you know that there aren't any Polish or Lithuanian small cap stocks who have been waiting as long or longer than Tsingda or Wonder? You have to have access to all the companies who are currently waiting, and know all about them and where they are in the process before you can even begin to make an allegation that there was discrimination against one by comparing it to the others.
You do not have access to that information. You're just wishing for some easy money by saying "SUE SUE". That's doesn't work in a democracy.
Don't believe me? go find a lawyer and sue. You're so convinced you have a case, go convince an attorney you have a case. Just one. Let us know how that turns out.
It's ok.. we'll wait.
Grace, let me see if I understand you correctly.
You think because the question is easy to answer, it's a silly question.
When you apply for a passport, the easy question is "what year were you born". I suggest you tell the government to go look it up themselves, go sue them for discrimination because you don't want to wait like everyone else in your category, and sue them for asking stupid questions.
Bravo!
This is exactly what needs to happen at this point in the game. Tangible i-dotting and t-crossing requests, and we can well understand the timeline.
Once Wonder is trading, I don't think this kind of detail/reassurance will be necessary as EBIG will have already made their mark and demonstrated that they are accomplishing what they have set out to do. Until we have something listed, I must say this is much appreciated.
I just talked to Norm.
Decided to call and see what was up. Tsingda is not in any hurry to go public until they complete their private placement. It's to Tsingda's advantage to do this simply because it is cheaper. Underwriters get a good chunk of money for bringing a company public. As a result, Wonder will most likely be listed first.
Both are still going back and forth with FINRA, and the last responses that were sent to FINRA came back with 2 or 3 comments each. When they started out, I think Norm said that Tsingda's application had some 15-20 comments, and Wonder maybe 10 or so? I didn't write it down when we spoke. Each time a response was filed, it came back with fewer and fewer comments.
Once the comments are done, they get approved.
At any rate, this has been trial by fire for management, and I wouldn't be surprised that by the time subsequent companies apply to FINRA for approval, EBIG and the respective underwriters will be better equipped to handle the intensive scrutiny. We'll see.
I think you're wrong Konshe. Nobody who trades for quick flips successfully would trade a stock like EBIG. There isn't enough volume. People who are selling just don't trust the company to do what they set out to do. Or, they're tired of dead money and will buy back in when there's solid news even if it's at a higher price.
Nobody "knows" the company will be worth $1.00. If they did know this, it would be trading around .90 right now.
When a company gets bought out, then everybody KNOWS what the buyout price per share will be, and the stock instantly gets close to that and stays there until the buyout occurs.
We don't KNOW anything about what EBIG's price will do. The best we can do is make educated guesses about what the stock MIGHT do if and when companies get listed. Even so, because the company is unknown, there might not be a lot of movement. On the other hand, because the float is so low, there might be amazing appreciation.
Anyone who "knows", should sell everything they own and trade accordingly. I for one am not going to take out a mortgage on my home, or sell all my jewelry to buy more shares. If I "KNEW" that EBIG would be worth $1.00, that is exactly what I would do.
Instead, I have a tidy number of shares that will be extremely profitable is EBIG behaves positively, yet it's not enough shares to hurt me if something goes wrong.
All Chinese reverse merger IPO's have to start trading on the OTC and remain there for a minimum seasoning period before they are allowed to move to bigger exchange. The purpose is to provide greater scrutiny of these companies before they trade, and ensure that there's something there worth trading before they move up.
The SEC announced these rules months ago. The process that Tsingda and every other Chinese reverse merger went through to get listed on AMEX consequently became useless and they had to restart the process to go with the OTC.
Konshe I think he said that EBIG would have a value of around 30 cents once Tsingda started trading.
That would be the value, not the price per share. The value goes up because the shares of Tsingda owned by EBIG would then be reflected as an asset. The share price depends on buyer interest in the stock.
Once Wonder starts trading, the value of EBIG goes up again for the same reason: the shares of Wonder become an asset.
Whether it's 1 week or 1 month, I can't see Bloomberg putting it in the data base if it wasn't in the bonafide pipeline. This is pretty good news particularly because it's just a fact and the source is Bloomberg... and they could care less. It's just data to them.
Something new, or at least I've never seen this before.
I found a couple of links yesterday that showed up in my search that I've never seen before. The first one came from googling "Tsingda ticker".
The first link at the TOP of the page was this one:
http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/3539237Z:US
I can't remember the search I used for this other one, and it's not as compelling as the Bloomberg link anyways:
http://tinyurl.com/7j7j3m7
But... this is DEFINITELY different. For Bloomberg to be identifying it as a pending listing? I don't like to make predictions, but I'm inferring from this that the IPO announcement must be fairly imminent.
drugman, that's my take on it too. They can't make money until they start bringing companies public. If they have no intention of doing that, it's a scam. But given not only the documented efforts to do so, but the caliber of the companies to whom they are providing services I'm pretty confident it's quite legit. They've hit the trifecta of perfect storms when it comes to accomplishing what they've set out to do and they're not alone in the SEC delays they are facing today.
Perhaps that explains why they are expanding their client list to other countries including the US. The original focus on Asia, while it may be ripe with opportunities also has formidable challenges. By including the US etc, they will have less difficulty bringing those companies onto exchanges, and better exchanges at that.
Long, if it was just the paid promos I'd agree with you. But Tsingda has not only registered with the SEC to go public, they are a huge company in China, with 2500 learning centers across 1300 cities in 23 provinces. I think they're the real deal, but what I think doesn't matter. The SEC and FINRA have to be satisfied that they are who say they are, and have done what they say they've done. You can be sure that SEC will want to have bank statements that they receive from the bank, and not from Tsingda and so forth for validation. Chinese IPO's from reverse mergers are being heavily scrutinized and rightly so.
Long, I guess my question to you is: do you think Tsingda is a scam? Do you think they have no intention of going public?
Just to underscore what I said yesterday about volume and charts and how the former impacts whether the latter is significant:
The stock just went up 4% on a trade of less than $20. This is obviously not indicative of buying interest, let alone a buy signal for even the most nimble trader. If one is a technical trader, there is not only no reason to buy this stock right now, there are no technical reasons for even being in it right now. If you want a penny stock that has enough volume for trading, go buy some BWEN. But when it's a stock like EBIG, the only reason for being in it is the premise that they will bring Tsingda to market. Seeing that they have not only registered with the SEC, but are paying a well respected underwriter for related services, I think it's a go.
But I'm not here on technicals because there's simply no data upon which to base a TA.
Insiders own 10's of millions of shares. 20 bucks just dropped the price 6%. Now tell me how those insiders are going to make a dime. Even the vendors who accepted shares in lieu of cash received restricted shares, so they're not the ones selling.
424 shares just traded. There's no question that there is currently zippo buying interest, which is why $20 can move the price.
And as I said, without adequate volume I just don't put much stock (no pun intended) in the charts. The lack of volume is why people who buy pennies on a sudden ramp can lose their shirt because as soon as those few eager beavers have bought, there's no support. Support only happens with game changers that bring in a stream of buyers.
You're right, I've taken a good haircut on this. It IS a loss, even if I haven't sold. But I still believe that Tsingda will go public. That's no hoax unless the SEC is complicit. And as soon as Tsingda goes public, the very real value of Ebig goes up.
As for the triple bottom, .042 has to be broken.
There's not enough money nor enough trades to make Ebig charts reliable. If 100,000 shares trade in a day that's a whopping 5K that's changed hands. Not that's been sold, but that has changed hands. And that's what... between 2 and 5 trades? Population is too small for charts to have any statistical reliability.
That said, any stock will drift down in the absence of buyers, and in this case there won't be buyers until Tsingda goes public. The delays have exacerbated this. The day that happens the pps will more than recover. If folks believe that it will never happen, they need to sell. I believe it's going to happen, so I'm holding.
You kinda forgot federal payroll tax. $240,000 puts Keith in a 33% tax bracket ($79,200), and Norm is in a 28% tax bracket ($50,400). The differences between their prior salaries and the current ones could easily account for a $93000 payroll tax increase.
Perhaps rather than a brief look at the filings, you should look more closely. The rent for the house in Beijing, was paid in shares, as are most of their major transactions.
Without generating a tremendous volume of buyers as well as an increase in share price, those EBIG shares are worthless. So, whoever has agreed to be compensated in shares must believe that EBIG is going to be big. Otherwise, they're all doing charity work.
For what it's worth, my father and a partner started a lumber and hardware business in the late 1950's. Unbeknownst to me as a kid, I was a shareholder. My mother was a shareholder, and my two brothers were shareholders. Interestingly, my father told me that my mother held the most shares because my father she would outlive him, and just wanted to ensure her power so that his voting rights would transfer to her and she'd have control of the family's half. It didn't turn out that way, but that's how it was structured. She owned 46% of the company's shares. He owned 1% but had all the voting rights, and my brothers and I each owned 1%. Quite a legitimate successful business that sold for good money in the late 80's (mostly because of the value from the real estate of the lumber yard and the various stores). My mother received a small salary, was on the board of directors, and that meant she had to sign the odd form. That's the system. It's legal.
Just like a home-office is tax deductible, the home(s) of a CEO have tax breaks if the home is used for conducting any business, or business entertainment. If you use your personal car for business, there are tax deductions for that too. None of this means there's anything untoward going on.
As for the interest, getting 5x today's rate is not exactly winning the lottery. It's a great return if you're dealing with a bank and it's guaranteed, but a penny stock sure doesn't offer a guarantee like that... hence the high rate. Furthermore, as far as I can tell they paid around $7000 in interest in the last quarter. Not exactly the kind of thing that's going to make or break them.
Rich, if you worked for EBIG, how would make FINRA and the SEC move faster? What action could you take? How would you have stopped Nasdaq from changing the rules regarding Chinese companies and being on the OTC for 6 months first? That has nothing to do with being "capable", unless you think Norm and Keith should have some kind of pull that can make these organizations bend to their will.
As for your other alternative, what money do you think they're stuffing in their pockets? Keith owns 45 million shares, and those aren't being sold, so where is this money they're taking coming from?
I know you're frustrated, we all are. But this is not in Ebig's hands anymore. Try getting a green card from the INS.. once all your documents are in, all you can do is sit and wait.
ATIG .. down 62% in one day. Ya, boy, you sure have amazing predictive powers all right.... You might have a better hit rate if you just flipped a coin.
http://ebigcorp.com/
Just look at the home page.
They may make exceptions, but it's an exception.
One point I would like to add to Drugman's post, is that it is EBIG's mission to bring foreign companies to market; that's the niche they are filling. They never had any intention of providing that service to domestic firms.
I also agree that lack of experience has been a problem in two respects. The first: I think they were too eager to find companies and were not as discriminating as they should be. It looks like they are now very choosy about whom they will accept. They want companies that will continue to be profitable for all concerned post IPO. Secondly, I think they may have been somewhat naive with respect to the work and time it takes to bring a company public.
On top of that we had the scandal of Chinese companies, the recession, the market pullbacks and churning this year, the change in listing requirements for Nasdaq (that one really screwed us) and the changes now required even by the OTC for Chinese companies.
Perfect storm. But I still think it's not only a great plan, it will be a great stock.
Do you know what a warrant is?
A warrant is a right to purchase. When you exercise that right it COSTS you money.
On May 17 2011, the doc exercised his warrants and paid EBIG 50K for 10,000,000 shares at a time when the shares were worth 10 cents each. In other words, he got them at half the market value as of that date.
EBIG has received 125K from him; 75K loan, 50K investment.
I think you need to check your math. An 18% loan on 75K would get you 13500 per year, or 1125/month. That assumes that they aren't paying off any principle. If they're paying P+I, then the interest payment gets smaller every month.
I think you're right Drugmanrx. While it may not be as lucrative as it will be when it goes to Nasdaq, Tsingda is a very strong company and should hold up well on its own merit.
How's that prediction about ATIG's 52 week high working out for you Yaboy?
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=67960151
All it takes is a quintuple by December for you to be almost right!
Now, if you have anything of substance to offer on EBIG I'm all ears. Until then, ya ya ya
I think the .70 -.90 range referred to what happens when Tsingda moves to Nasdaq, although I could be wrong. That's a good 6 months after the OTC offering.
Sure it's possible that ATIG will surpass EBIG before EOY. That's the thing about penny stocks, they can just zoom inexplicably one way or the other.
See, I know better than to predict. Best case scenario is you get bragging rights over something in which you never had control anyway. Now there's something to be proud of.
FWIW I have no reason to be annoyed. I certainly would not be annoyed because someone makes a prediction on one stock, and on the heals of that makes a prediction on another with the accuracy you've demonstrated here. If anything, I'm encouraged.
I'll tell what you I do like. I like facts and figures. I was even amused when I discovered how things added up here in light of your most recent "prediction" <koff> But don't worry, math isn't everybody's friend.
My condolences to everyone about today's decline. There really does seem to be a total absence of buyers even at these levels, but like all penny stocks the right news could send this soaring.
glta
I think the timing is right. The whole China issue has resulted in tougher requirements and greater scrutiny,and while that cost us delays, that ultimately works out to the benefit of everyone. The market seems to have put in a base, and while we're certainly ripe for a pullback after a good long runup, that's neither here nor there.
Given that Tsingda wants to exhibit price stability on the OTC for 6 months so that they can get onto the Nasdaq, I'm really glad they didn't go public in recent months. The down turn we've experienced would have wreaked havoc on the the stock. AFTER a correction feels like a good time for entry. I feel positive about the timing of this far more than I've felt since the spring.
For ATIG to close above .007 today as you predicted yesterday, it will have to go up at least .0031 from where it currently is trading.
That's 79% above where it is right now at .0039. tick tock tick tock, as you like to say. Only 4 hours left. And there's only one bid in of 5000 shares at .0035; a whopping $17.50 worth of stock.
So is that $17.50 your idea of "loading up"?
I'm not convinced that this will be a 5 year plan because I think getting the first one off the ground is toughest. It's been trial by fire for these guys and my guess is that it will take less and less time to get companies listed. Typically, if I'm not mistaken, taking a couple of years from decision to event is not unusual but I think that management is now far better equipped to facilitate the process.
Experience is like that :)
That said, I agree with you Chad in that there's no point making these pie in the sky predictions about share price. If you're right, you get bragging rights.. big deal. If you're wrong you end up giving people totally unreasonable expectations (if they're foolish enough to believe you) and then they bail out when those expectations aren't immediately met.
Outstanding conference call. Tsingda is definitely going public. The last step is to notify the SEC of how much they want to raise/number of shares available. The SEC confirmation notice should be publicized within 10-14 days.
Despite the fact that so many IPO's have pulled out, TSIN is determined to go public. They want to offer at $5, and it is doubtful that would change, although I got the impression that if the market was particularly nasty like it was last week that TSIN starts to trade, they might lower it a bit.
This is not a huge IPO. TSIN wants to be on the Nazz, and Nasdaq said they'd like to see TSIN on the OTC.q? (don't remember, but high level OTC, NOT the pinks)for 6 months and show some price stability before admitting them to the Nazz. NYSE NAS and AMEX qualifications have been tightened for Chinese IPO's and that's why the restrictions. Anyway, the really big IPO for Tsingda will be when they move to the Nasdaq.
When Tsingda goes public, EBIG shares will be worth about .70, simply based on the equity they own in Tsingda. Wonder and Dwarf are moving along well, and it seems to me that we're really rocking now.
Actually EBIG shares have that value now, because that's related to the value of Tsingda today independent of whether an IPO happens. But after the IPO is when it is going to be recognized by the Street.
Others who heard the call, if I misstated anything here, please correct me.