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TOUCHE' Matt.
:=) Gary Swancey
That is a great one frank.
:=) Gary Swancey
The best way to respond is to post Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty http://www.nato.int/docu/basictxt/treaty.htm:
Article 5
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.
(Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations
Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain inter- national peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.)
Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security (1).
Article 6
For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:
* on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France, (2) on the territory of
* or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;
* on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or theMediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.
Footnotes :
(1) The definition of the territories to which Article 5 applies was revised by Article 2 of the Protocol to the North Atlantic Treaty on the accession of Greece and Turkey.
(2) On January 16,1963, the North Atlantic Council heard a declaration by the French Representative who recalled that by the vote on self-determination on July 1, 1962, the Algerian people had pronounced itself in favour of the independence of Algeria in co-operation with France. In consequence, the President of the French Republic had on July 3, 1962, formally recognised the independence of Algeria. The result was that the "Algerian departments of France" no longer existed as such, and that at the same time the fact that they were mentioned in the North Atlantic Treaty had no longer any bearing. Following this statement the Council noted that insofar as the former Algerian Departments of France were concerned, the relevant clauses of this Treaty had become inapplicable as from July 3, 1962]
(3) Charter of the United Nations http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/
:=) Gary Swancey
That is a long article and I am getting caught up on my reading. You make some very good statements and you state your beliefs articulately. Thus you can understand me anger on that one statement. To me it was appauling and I do not think you would want some one to read that statement wrong.
Here we make an attempt to discover the underlying reasons on how, from ashes of failed backward regions emerged a great civilization, which bestowed the world with major contributions in science, architecture and culture.
And we can show that in nearly every culture and regardless of skin color.
:=) Gary Swancey
I would not have gone nutz if the sentence was properly proofed.
The attack on World Trade Center and its associated human loss of life is ironically maybe too small a price for what has changed for humanity today
the sentence shoudl have been worded this way IF and I say IF this what you were trying to convey.
The attack on World Trade Center and its associated human loss of life is coincidentally maybe too large a price for what has changed for humanity today
That to me would have been an adnmirable statement of fortitude. Any loss of life to pay for a change in humanity is to great
Again if this is not the way you meant it then I will wait for the true meaning. Irony and coincident are a common error.
:=) Gary Swancey
Ike I can;t find "Apathy" but I did see where you changed the title to "Darkest Day", which I think was a solid change. However, I see the sentence is unchanged.
COuld you get the URL for APathy ... I will continue to look.
:=) Gary Swancey
Taking a stand ... and giving credit where credit is due
http://www.iranian.com/JahanshahJavid/2001/September/Terror3/index.html
By Jahanshah Javid
September 14, 2001
The Iranian
We must draw the line. We must make it perfectly clear where we stand. We must take a stand against religious fanaticism. We must reject and confront the darkest forces of evil terrorizing the Middle East and the free world in the name of God.
***
I never thought that at this age, after outgrowing the Iranian revolution, and political and religious extremism, I would utter such loaded cliches as "the free world" and "evil". But this is no time for "balance" and "moderation". We must take a stand.
This is no time to feel sorry for those who commit cold-blooded mass murder on such a calculated and horrific scale. This is no time to "understand" why fanatics spill blood so unconscionably, so zealously, so enthusiastically. This is no time to justify, minimize or ignore their savagery.
It is time that we, as Iranians, as Arabs, as Middle Easterners, as Muslims, as Jews, as human beings, stand up and confront those who so callously commit unspeakable crimes in our name, in the name of Divine Justice, in the name of the Almighty.
And it is time to stop blaming America.
***
It took what seemed like an eternity to write that last sentence. Why? Why is it so difficult to utter what I believe in? Why am I so cautious in acknowledging how great the United States is? Why do I sense fear? Why do I feel surrounded by angry faces pointing at me and branding me a foolish, naive traitor?
Am I bowing to the surge in American patriotism? Am I fearful of what my American neighbors may do to me if I tell them I'm Iranian? I don't think so. I love America, its democracy, its open society, its diversity, and its broad, institutional respect for freedom of thought and expression.
The problem is that these basic, secular, humanistic principles are not always reflected in American foreign policy. American presence in the Middle East has little to do with freedom. It is more about power, resources, money. Most people in the Middle East live under American-backed regimes which deny basic freedoms. But with all its imperfections, who could argue that America is by far the most humane world power in history?
***
I feel like crap for writing all this. Miserable. I love America and yet I'm ashamed to admit it. I don't recall a discussion with friends -- Iranian or American -- where we would simply point out how great this country is or give it credit for anything good, decent and honorable. It's so "uncool". We constantly criticize. In wanting things to be BETTER, we forget that a lot of things are pretty damn good the way they are.
The funny thing is, I don't consider myself "American", despite the fact that, technically, I'm American. I have been an American citizen since birth. My grandmother was American. My mother was born in Manhattan. I went to high school and college here. I live and work here. In many ways, I think and act American. But American, I'm not.
I'm Iranian. I publish iranian.com, remember? I will sit behind this computer and count the ways I love Iran until I'm physically unable. To do that, I have to be free. To achieve our full potential as human beings, to enjoy life to the fullest, we must be free. That is America's invaluable gift to all of us. Let us be grateful and show our appreciation in its time of need.
I think this fully expresses the internal and external turmoil of the middle east. Freedom is not something to take lightly and any attack on freedom is an attack on the world.
TOUCHE' to this gentleman.
:=) Gary Swancey
Ike what do you think about this http://9news.com/newsroom/13294.html
Going to read yur article.
:=) Gary Swancey
Yep but hey I dunno. How about my new gif?
:=) Gary Swancey
Ike ... I have not detected that evil exist in your heart. That is where truest evil lies. Not in Nations or religions or civilizations. The cartels, cults and other small groups who sole purpose is to harm civilization as whole are the evil.
Brainwashed sheep or weak minded followers become an extension to the evil in a few.
But you are right in that article though that the US may not know how to play in this Holy War and reamifications could come from it if he is not careful. Carpet bombing is not the answer but surgically hitting selective targets to hurt the terrorist should be the focus.
I await to see just how the US will seek out and destroy terrorism.
:=) Gary Swancey
That is what was driving me crazy. When I told you I got sick reading it and could not get past one part I figured you would have reread it to see what was distrubing. When that did not happened I felt that you meant it and that was my focus and the reason for my presistence.
:=) Gary Swancey
Ike spelling errors and porr grammar is my signature (Bardology) since I came on line. I even had or use to have a thread called Bardology. It was a place to share jokes and be comical.
I do not agree with other opinions being squahed or censored that have a true underlying basis.
:=) Gary Swancey
No Ike keep the article but make sure it conveys your true points. If all that is wrong is the misuse of ironically in a reference to human loss and small should've been large then please do keep your opinion composition for all to read.
This is not about where it should be ... it should be anywhere you wish to put it.
:=) Gary Swancey
Ike I do not drink and though sometimes a small choice of words can invoke conflict. My whole focus was on that statement. Because you did not see it immediately thus I considered that it was not a mistake. Thus I went from there.
On the internet a focus can drift into a mountain and the original item is lost in the rhetoric. But sometimes you can;t get to a point without going completely around it.
We have no problem now because not one innocent life is worth any change in humanity though we both know their will always be innocent blood shed ...
:=) Gary Swancey
I do understand ...
:=) Gary Swancey
Ike I agree ... I have made some stupid mistakes in my posting leaving out a NOT or something and I have to reread it and make corrections and of course apologize for the carelessness.
I like IHUB because when that happens I can easily rewrite the post and post it thus having the other removed for a duplicate.
MAtt was extremely smart in setting this up the way he has. We are together and I belive we both realize terrorism should be taken out surgically and not at any cost.
:=) Gary Swancey
Ike that is correct and I do not take it back either. It shows I do not want you censored and I respected your comments but then came the statement of "ironically maybe too small a cost" if you cannot see why that would anger someone then you are not what you present yourself to be.
:=) Gary Swancey
Thank you ... Thank you very much because that is exactly what I believe from the deepest part of my being as a human. I have not read that it was an error maybe I missed it in the all the rhetoric ... If I did then I offer my truest apologies.
This is not about the color of skin, this is a senstive time for everyone. I thought the article was thought provoking until I hit that sentence. It caused me to become ill thus it did provoke thought.
As I thought about those that were faced with a decision to burn or jump my heart aches. I cannot imagine which I would have done nor should anyone have to make that decision. I cannot relate to sitting in my home and a bomb go off next to it. I had a brother in the Gulf at the time of Kuwait also.
We are not enemies nor foes ...
:=) Gary Swancey
I do not know you ... getting to know you though and not just your financial articles. I am getting to know you.
:=) Gary Swancey
Ike don;t leave face me not as an American or whatever ... explain the reference ... If you go to SI I will follow. I was one of the first on SI as Ga Bard.
:=) Gary Swancey
Oh Please ... As far as knowing you are Islam I have known that for some time by reading your articles of Megaeast and business recorder that are Pakistan scenarioes. DO not underestimate my resolve either.
You know what that sentence says. My concern is why you made it after all the articles you have wriiten. In the market I consider you a solid resource but this is not about the market this is about your statements.
All extremists are alike, they hate fresh thinking, on both side of the isle deep demons sit on high pulpits and accuse the people to be torn off, as a kid as a victim in my own country and as an adult as a victim in Kuwait
BULL ... I have an always will be an advocate for critical thinking. Written many compositions myself. I hate brain washed sheep. But this has NOTHING to do with your statement. What cost in human life would be sufficient for you to consider a fair price for a change in humanity?
It was most unfortunate that I had to listen it from you because you sit on high pulpit awarding sentences to everyone under you. Censor ship of thought is what I see in your attacks on me.
Censor you ... NO WAY. No I goated you off the copying and pasting others comments from news releases and articles made by others because I wanted your own opinion and I got it. Now... What cost in human life would be sufficient for you to consider a fair price for a change in humanity?
Hated by you and them becasue I stand for soemthing. I condemn them and ridicule them 100's of SI posts are witness of all that, you without knowing me are attacking me with kid of merciless accusations, the things that I have fought against all my life will not be accpeted by me.
I do not hate you I think you are not what I thought you were. Also I could careless about your personal life answer the question What cost in human life would be sufficient for you to consider a fair price for a change in humanity?
my one wrong usage ‘irony’ that was a fault of my poor English makes you mad but you have no respect for others feelings. We represent humanity too and we while make sure that blind propaganda to start this war as war of civilization may be truly understood,
I respect everyone's feelings and I am an advocate for the underdogs. I hate seeing anyone be harmed by another or good with good intentions get nailed. "No good deed goes unpunished" Everytime I see a person killed anywhere in the world I am appauled. It sickens me to see that terrorist are allowed to run amuck without the very religion and states that hide them doing nothing to stop it.
I find it amusing that someone that is as well written as yourself and articulate does not see what I am upset about. Am I bias probably but I signed off and thought when I came back on that you would have reread your composition to see what would make a lone wolf american be so upset that there was a point that this person could not read past. But that is not considering others is it. So I ask you again. What cost in human life would be sufficient for you to consider a fair price for a change in humanity?
BTW I am not a bigot and I am not anything more than I represent. Nor do I hold you remotely responsible for terrorism. I think you sypathize but I am entitled as you are to the loos of human life as a mere price to be paid for terroristic acts to change humanity.
:=) Gary Swancey
Nothing in that usage is troublesome to me.
:=) Gary Swancey
Yeah yeah yeah I turned your propaganda over to the FBI.
:=) Gary Swancey
MBA Encourages Banks to Coordinate Donations
MINNEAPOLIS, Sept. 14 /PRNewswire/ -- The devastating events of
September 11th, 2001 have caused an outpouring of generosity across the
country. Many bank customers may wish to help people affected by the disaster
by donating money at their bank. Some banks have notified the press that they
will accept donations to both the United Way and the American Red Cross.
However, the press may be reporting that ALL banks in Minnesota are accepting
donations. The MBA encourages its members to contact the United Way and/or
Red Cross to coordinate procedures for accepting donations.
The United Way has created The September 11th Fund to raise money for
people affected by the disaster in all parts of the United States. The phone
number for The September 11th Fund is 800-710-8002. The internet address is
http://www.uwnyc.org . The mailing address is:
The September 11th Fund
c/o United Way
2 Park Avenue
New York, NY 10016
In addition, many local United Way offices have instituted their own
crisis relief funds.
The American Red Cross is providing immediate disaster mass care and blood
to victims and emergency workers in New York, Washington D.C., and
Pennsylvania. To donate to the disaster relief fund, call 800-435-7669. To
donate via the internet, contact http://www.redcross.org . The mailing
address for donations is:
American Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund
P.O. Box 37243
Washington, D.C. 20013
Donations may also be made through local Red Cross offices.
The Minnesota Bankers Association is the state's largest trade association
devoted exclusively to the representation of commercial banks. The MBA was
founded in 1889 and represents 98% of the nearly 500 banks in Minnesota.
:=) Gary Swancey
Corporate Patriot: UAW-DaimlerChrysler Commits $1 Million to Aid Victims of Terrorist Attacks
DETROIT, Sept. 14 /PRNewswire/ -- The UAW and DaimlerChrysler Corp. are
jointly pledging $1 million to the American Red Cross to support victims and
assist relief efforts in the wake of this week's terrorist attacks on the
United States.
The gift will be made through the UAW-DaimlerChrysler National Training
Center, which operates joint union-management programs that benefit UAW-
represented workers at DaimlerChrysler and their families.
"We have been overwhelmed by the horror of this great human tragedy," said
UAW Vice President Nate Gooden, director of the union's DaimlerChrysler
Department. "We consider the terrorist actions an attack on all Americans,
and we want to assist those who have suffered the most."
"This $1 million contribution to the American Red Cross is provided in the
spirit of cooperation that exists between the UAW and DaimlerChrysler," said
John S. Franciosi, DaimlerChrysler senior vice president for employee
relations. "It is being made in the name of the dedicated men and women in
our workforce."
Gooden and Franciosi said the gift is the largest of its kind ever made by
the UAW-DaimlerChrysler partnership.
Founded in 1985, the UAW-DaimlerChrysler National Training Center oversees
about 30 joint programs that provide educational programs and support services
for UAW members at DaimlerChrysler.
:=) Gary Swancey
and their sympathizers and harbors.
:=) Gary Swancey
HUH ,,, I know this board chairman did not write that nor did I suggest he did. I gave you and example that would apply to your logic. I am not upset.
:=) Gary Swancey
Both
:=) Gary Swancey
Arch ... only the internet will basically find a way to curve a meaning. I do not see how anyone can change the meaning of that comment. Maybe this can be interpreted as word syntax & literal versus figurative word meanings sometimes get skewed
Re: VVVV to THE MOON!!!!
by: strategists2000 09/10/01 06:59 pm
Msg: 2254 of 2961
to the deapest part called the center of the earth by this wekend north east region will be destroyed new providance soon to fall apart
:=) Gary Swancey
Frustrated is an understatement. I have been watching the horror of the rescue operations. It is heart wrenching. But there is more that just the aftermath of this murderous act and that is potential futher attacks.
You can defend anyone one you want and try to twist the meanings. I am not stupid so please do not try and color one of the most blatantly horrible statements I have ever read in my life.
I am an Amercian Patriot first and foremost and I do not ride a fence.
:=) Gary Swancey
I do not know this poster at all and what I read was total propaganda. His true feelings came out in his composition as he tries to ride the fence.
Do you think Islamic fanatics just sit there and bear what he is saying? Even in Paris.
Why not he is praising the results. Glory to the terrorist that will change humanity.
Do you remember Rashidi(?) who wrote a funny novel about Mohammed(?) and hid for a long time due to death threat. There are always a threat to somebody who speaks up in the Muslim world
Yes I remember it well. But these Islam nations will defend the terrorist to the death in a Holy War but want to kill an author.
I think he had a lot of help from old enemy, Iraq, maybe Syria, and Iran.
That is apparent and President Clinton exported NSA-ducking phone, high-tech encryption devices to Syria. This technology allows these terrorists to mask their communications. Now Clinton is on TV with his absolute lack of concern for the US people. He does not have to worry he has the Secret Service.
Kim ... I am a veteran and my brothers are veterans but one and my father was a vertern. I do not believe I have ever read a statement so blantantly horrible as I did in that crock he wrote. Religion, Politics, Sports will lead to the worst arguements that ever come about.
However, when some tells me that one life (not to mention thousands) is ironcally maybe too small a price to pay for a change in humanity, needs to step back and look at what he just said or was it that he knows more is coming to raise the cost for a change in humanity.
I have been reading his posts since he made that post and you would NOT want me to elaborate on my opinion of the crock I have read. I understand the term fork tongue and propaganda.
Our calavry condems the US a to the Indians and then took everything from them. Locked them up on reservations. Of course we all can do a cultural history lesson but that has nothing to do with what I am upset about and to try and unfocus off of it is absurd.
I repeat how many lives does this Islam feel would be enough so that it would not be ironically too small?
:=) Gary Swancey
Truth Excellent site. Thank You. They have arrected in TX and now their are plans for a year that have been discovered.
Interpol: 40 countries have provided attack-relative info
4 arrested in Laquadia
4 tried to pose as crew memeners
Newrak Airport: has several retained yesterday
Tx has retained some with $5000 in cash and knifes
:=) Gary Swancey
APPLAUD! Very well written.
:=) Gary Swancey
CBNC just reviewed a reporter that stated bin Laden sent out a video tape to the US to prepare for a major incident and then to the Muslim to prepare for war.
Will lokk in the news for this.
:=) Gary Swancey
Investigators have located the black box in Western Pennsylvania belonging to United Airlines Flight 93, which may help reveal how the plane crashed and if there was an on-board struggle between passengers and hijackers...
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/WTC_PAcrash010913.html
:=) Gary Swancey
Donating Supplies: Where to Go, What to Bring
Sept. 13 — If you wish to help the rescue effort at the World Trade Center disaster site and those who have been forced to evacuate their homes in lower Manhattan, you may wish to donate much-needed supplies at the designated drop-off sites.
The following is a list of items in short supply:
• hard hats
• tissues
• safety goggles
• permanent markers
• oxygen tanks
• baby powder
• first-aid ointment (neosporin)
• anti-bacterial soap
• flashlights
• inhalers
• ice
• ponchos
Donations may be brought to:
Chelsea Piers
23rd Street at the Hudson River on the West Side of Manhattan
or
Jacob K. Javitz Center
11th Avenue at 35th Street on the West Side of Manhattan
:=) Gary Swancey
Was the small cost because there is suppose to be more to add to the cost.
Investigators Detain 10 at NY Airports; Bin Laden Focus Grows
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/WTC_MAIN.html
Sept. 13 — Authorities took 10 people into custody from New York City's two major airports after finding they had false identifications and knives, law enforcement officials told ABCNEWS.com.
Officials fear the two groups of people may have been set to mount a second wave of terror following Tuesday's attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. The New York area's three major airports were shut down.
Between 4:15 and 5 p.m. ET, four men were detained trying to board a United Airlines flight to Los Angeles at John F. Kennedy International Airport, officials said. They had open tickets to various places in the United States, dated Sept. 11, the date of Tuesday's attack.
Officials also said they had multiple fake IDs, knives, and flight certificates from Flight Safety International in Vero Beach, Fla., one of the schools the suspected terrorists were allegedly trained.
Following the detention of the four men, a female was also detained for allegedly acting in a support role.
Hours later, at LaGuardia Airport, police detained five men who also had open flight tickets, knives, fake pilot licenses and identification. All 10 people are being questioned by authorities tonight.
Black Box Recovered
The flights in New York were halted wreckage investigators in Pennsylvaniarecovered the black box from a hijacked airliner that crashed in Shanksville, but it was not known whether it was damaged. Probers have said they hope the cockpit voice recorder in the black boxes of all four aircraft hijacked in the attacks will help track down the group responsible.
The aircraft was United Airlines Flight 93, that last of the four planes to go down. All on board were killed.
Investigators at the Pentagon also said they were closing in on a black box there, and have heard the pinging the recording devices are designed to emit. They hope to locate it soon, but say the pinging seems to be coming from an unstable part of the building.
Focus on Bin Laden ... more ...
:=) Gary Swancey
Investigators Detain 10 at NY Airports; Bin Laden Focus Grows
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/WTC_MAIN.html
Sept. 13 — Authorities took 10 people into custody from New York City's two major airports after finding they had false identifications and knives, law enforcement officials told ABCNEWS.com.
Officials fear the two groups of people may have been set to mount a second wave of terror following Tuesday's attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. The New York area's three major airports were shut down.
Between 4:15 and 5 p.m. ET, four men were detained trying to board a United Airlines flight to Los Angeles at John F. Kennedy International Airport, officials said. They had open tickets to various places in the United States, dated Sept. 11, the date of Tuesday's attack.
Officials also said they had multiple fake IDs, knives, and flight certificates from Flight Safety International in Vero Beach, Fla., one of the schools the suspected terrorists were allegedly trained.
Following the detention of the four men, a female was also detained for allegedly acting in a support role.
Hours later, at LaGuardia Airport, police detained five men who also had open flight tickets, knives, fake pilot licenses and identification. All 10 people are being questioned by authorities tonight.
Black Box Recovered
The flights in New York were halted wreckage investigators in Pennsylvaniarecovered the black box from a hijacked airliner that crashed in Shanksville, but it was not known whether it was damaged. Probers have said they hope the cockpit voice recorder in the black boxes of all four aircraft hijacked in the attacks will help track down the group responsible.
The aircraft was United Airlines Flight 93, that last of the four planes to go down. All on board were killed.
Investigators at the Pentagon also said they were closing in on a black box there, and have heard the pinging the recording devices are designed to emit. They hope to locate it soon, but say the pinging seems to be coming from an unstable part of the building.
Focus on Bin Laden ... more ...
:=) Gary Swancey
Hi Truth, I agree with your post and fully aware what you are saying.
Remember that Pakistan is a nuclear power; do we want a fundamentalist regime similar to that in Afghanistan heading up that country with nuclear weapons at its disposal?
I am very much aware of this as is our president and his advisors.
How many people in the West even heard of Bin Laden ten years ago? Not until 1993 and then in 1999 after the africa bombings.
Let us just make sure that in achieving that end, we don't create an even bigger problem for us than exists right now.
I doubt we will.
Now you do find this human loss of life ironically maybe too small a price for a changed in humanity today? Considering we are in thousands in the WTC muderous act maybe millions would apease some that the price is sufficient.
:=) Gary Swancey
I am calm but I can't read that composition no further than I have. Your statement of irony on too small a cost of human life amde me sick. I signed off and have tried to control my emotions but I am not sure I have but I have said my piece.
:=) Gary Swancey