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I remember the fight with that rabbit. Boy I wish I'd listened to him.
While far from any sort of guarantee, I think with the right visibility it can hit those numbers faster than we might expect.
It is my hope with nothing in supporting evidence that some names with audiences have taken the last week or two to load up and when we are current turn on the megaphones to start a big run north.
Focus on what truly matters
For all that we get focused on share price (and it is hard not to, especially in the red. My average entry was a lot closer to 2 cents than 1) it is also to a degree noise, or at least, merely a reflection.
The strong case was there from the start, it was the reason for the strong climb last year and the reason myself and so many others jumped in at that time. The negatives were there too from the start, at the time I got in that was a stop sign and the looming threat that in the future tickers too far behind could stop trading.
Over time the negatives grew and the positives didn't. Management was so slow at removing that stop sign any benefit of the doubt for being "new to this" faded into the perception of them just being incompetent and unwilling to resolve it. When we did see earnings, they disappointed most who were expecting more. Throughout all of this the company was largely silent on a PR front, for all we could drop in on their agent meetings.
This slide in share price has not been undeserved. We don't have to go looking for phantom shorts or MLM manipulation or anything of the like to explain it.
It seems to me these negatives are going away. The new CFO is not flawless as the need for amended filings shows, but he does at least seem to have the will and authority to correct mistakes quickly. Since he has stepped into the role we've seen a lot more PRs, and it seems reasonable to assume they may be holding more for once we go current. The effects of the pandemic on their business should be waning, and the expansion into several big new markets is coming soon.
Just as we've been trading lower because those negatives were mounting, we should start seeing things go north as those positives build. It isn't all smoke and mirrors and momentum. These things matter and right now they look to be in our favor again. We'll get there.
The difference from pre-CFO and after is striking. It is like they are completely different companies.
All it should take to bring back momentum is some new buyers. I'm a bit surprised materials being submitted to go current hasn't done that. A short term gain from this point seems like a great bet to me, but, the long gamblers seem to either be exhausted or out of powder (or both).
Current definitely should bring those new buyers though. It allows a class of investor that was never going to touch anything with any sort of warning on it which is what we've had for awhile. Then, we hope, those new buyers bring new buyers with them and the train starts moving properly.
The excitement is baked in. Great products and an ambitious global strategy. Don't get so focused on the chart direction of the last few months that you forget what you bought into originally. Yeah, it is hard to feel the power when bleeding red but those fundamentals are still there and the foundation is still solid. Once we move, it should be a great one.
That is my thought. I'm not really sure why anyone is selling now when the current sign is likely to bring in brand new buyers with brand new cash.
I suppose there is a profit to be made over the recent price, but the next few days really starts to change the profile of our investors and that new blood is something we've been wanting for a long time.
Always thought folks here have probably thrown a bit too much of the blame on Alois. While clearly the CEO sits at the top and gets the blame, I've always figured there was enough to go around.
My not in the room and no idea of what really happened guess has always been that the VitX guys saw what percentage the GHHC guys wanted to handle the office end, said that cut is too big (probably reasonably) and said that is easy we'll just do it ourselves (a horrific mistake).
They dramatically underestimated the difficulty so went out and hunted themselves a CEO that was like them, a MLM guy and were so bad at this whole thing they never truly realized what a mess they were creating.
Great signs the ship is righting and the new CFO does in fact know what he is doing. I hope the board lets him.
Nothing is proved yet.
Nothing has had a chance to be proved.
Stock investing has no place in OTC. VITX proves it
He signed off on the annual report on 10/29 as CEO so we'll see.
Those preferred Bs were always going to be hanging there. I think the previous terms of execution were a RS which could have happened at any time. Now they're out there and behind us and we can move forward.
It looks like those investors converted a month ago and they haven't mass liquidated, so hopefully they're in for the long ride too.
That is my impression.
Pandemic hit their early growth hard as they seem big into the "lets get people into a hotel to hear our pitch" approach.
Weakening of the pandemic will help that, and the more reps they get the faster expansion will be. They've used the time to more zero in on their products and get those where they want. I think their new territory launches will go wel.
New CFO on time and honoring the PR. Builds confidence.
All along my single biggest concern since I hoped in as an investor has been their lack of someone focused on the office stuff. Their entire management team seem like they are extremely charismatic, competitive, salesmen.
I never figured it was that huge a deal, office guys aren't hard to find. They're easier to find than good sales guys as a general rule! Still, for over six months now they have gone about not finding one with a near fatal to the business level of intensity. I don't want to trash talk a company I am invested in too much, but all of us long for awhile know that this has not been an area that they have distinguished themselves in.
Getting someone competent to focus on the numbers and on compliance issues is a really, really, good sign moving forward. A hole in the ship that just seemed to be growing larger over time finally getting patched.
Disclosure on it too it looks like
https://www.otcmarkets.com/otcapi/company/financial-report/307129/content
Sounds like exactly the sort of person we'd want them to get as a CFO and something long overdue.
Also signed off on by Alois, to squash those rumors that have been flying around that he left the company.
I know that they just hired a new SEC attorney, but it honestly shouldn’t take more than a day, to review a few filings and put a 2 - 3 page attorney letter put together, and get it uploaded.
I wonder where we would be if they had stuck to what seemed the original plan with GHHC.
No insight to exactly what that plan was, but it seemed originally like the GHHC were going to keep doing GHHC things, submitting filings, doing PR, and generally managing the stock. Filings from that time show they wanted to do a RS within a year for the purposes of uplisting. I presume the intent of this was to have them focus on that while the VitX crew focused on sales and growing the business.
We're almost to the finish line, and they seem to be improving, but wow I think investors both direct and in the stock would have been so much better served by sticking to that kind of plan.
Love/Hate for me too.
I'm totally a bag holder right now, down from my original investment and for the the vast majority of the time since I purchased I've been down.
Of course, I wanted to invest in something I had good fundamentals and future prospects that the market hadn't really discovered yet or priced properly and boy if I didn't get my wish.
They remain a rapid-growth business model, with innovative products, and experienced people in charge with enormous future potential, especially compared to most of the OTC.
The efforts to get current have been shockingly slow and inept. I'm not even aiming for a positive spin here, the most positive I can say is that at least they are trying.
I totally overestimated their possible earnings this year. MLM is majorly people heavy and when I bought in I somehow did not factor in the effect that Covid would have on them. I feel that one is totally on me, for all that lots of other people made that mistake with me.
Some people hate the numbers. For a startup in a generally "in person meeting" heavy sector that had to quickly pivot into a more online strategy I actually find it impressive they are doing so well. The pandemic murdered a lot of businesses, they've held theirs together. I think a return to normalcy will have an outsized positive effect for them, but boy, I both wish I were buying in now instead of when I did and I wish some of that success I keep seeing in their future would hurry up and get here.
Still holding, still optimistic, but what a rough year for what is my major holding.
[Bernhard and Dirk both own 403,167.8 shares each of class B preferred shares - I wonder what that would
equate to in common shares??
It says they both own 29.98% each, of Ownership percentage of class outstanding./quote]
Not an accountant and so I'm talking out of my ass a bit, but as far as I can tell Series B right now are worth whatever someone else will pay for them but in the event of a RS convert into 80% of the outstanding common. With 1.37 billion outstanding the total series B would convert into around 1.1 billion at todays share structure taking it to a total of 2.47 billion more or less (or whatever the split adjusts that too). Holding roughly 30% each of the Class Bs would be around 330 million shares at todays structure or around 13% each of the post RS total common shares.
They've got a lot of skin in the game and a lot of reason to want the stock to do well.
I'll jump in on September 14th good chef of pastries. Thank you for doing this, great way to bring some life to the board and get us even more excited about this upcoming catalyst.
Snakes everywhere.
Morning started out with a stranger talking things down and now they pile in oh so helpful and worried.
Financials out, current soon, several positive events in the short term with the long term as bright as ever. Anyone talked into selling by this batch is missing the obvious. Anyone buying at these prices is getting a bargain.
The 1.5 mil states it is for a six month period and has included revenues from Vitana-Europe before their acquisition by the main company. The 413K is a three month period and just Vitana-X as it stood during that period.
Least, I think that is what I am reading.
I contract a lot of artists for projects in my professional life.
My life is getting a three week timeframe, and after three weeks pinging the artist who has something but they'd really like a few more days for detail passes. I agree, and the end result looks mostly great but I want a little more dead space for typography at the top which they can provide but they need a few days first... and so it goes.
No matter what you do, you are always waiting for someone in some aspect of your business.
I am happy to hold because..
1. The management team can sell. One of the hardest things to find in a business owner is the willingness to sell and these guys are selling every day. Every week we can see their calls selling their company to new reps and they're fantastic at it. They seem to be acquiring talent from other MLMs and training new reps to sell as well which is fantastic.
2. Targeting influencers is such a smart approach. I don't know how much other MLMs have done that but for a group of people always looking for a way to turn their reach into a long tail income I think this opportunity will really appeal.
3. The products seem quality and are largely of the type that can be reordered versus single sale. They are also priced right to allow a generous commission structure and turn a profit. Product development is also ongoing.
4. New markets are new tinder for the fire.
This all balances out to in a year I think the company will be selling significantly more than they are now, and two years from now I think they will be selling significantly more than they were at that future one year mark.
Filings? Yeah they are slow, but some people here are twisting themselves into knots and causing themselves a lot of stress that is unnecessary.
No, it is not a sign of CEO incompetence to not know when filings will be out. They are using a contractor and if anyone has any experience with contractors at all you know timelines are both something they hate to promise and often have a hard time delivering on.
No, it is not a sign of accountant incompetence that they are slow. They are coming out of tax season and while no accountant myself the multinational nature, nature of the business, and recent reverse merger plus the acquisition of Vitana-Eu probably make the whole thing a nightmare. Calling for firing them probably just makes a delay on the next filing more likely, this is work that poses a significant challenge the first time through and less so after that as you have some sort of procedure now in place to deal with the unique corporate oddities.
They are clearly focused on the most important part of their business, and the rest is just as clearly getting done albeit at a slower pace. Chill and be happy you got in at these levels, the future is bright.
I'm sure we've had some this past week or two bail on $VITX to chase something new and shiny. I understand the frustration, I'm down over 30% at this point from my average entry point and not happy about it.
Still, I bought at that entry point because I thought even there that it was undervalued, and in the long term would be significantly undervalued at that range. That hasn't changed.
MLMs are a business model that lets one avoid the nightmare of retail stocking requirements and that whole gatekeeper aspect just to sell your goods.
Their products seem of decent quality and marketing, in a hot sector, with a price point that should allow them a great margin even with a generous partner plan.
Global expansion speaks for itself, it doesn't always work but I think their business model is one that lets them minimize the risks of those expansion while maximizing the potential rewards.
Going after influencers looking for a way to turn that influence into long-tail income could really wind up working well for them.
I don't know if next week will be the week. I take what any salesperson tells me with a grain of salt and all the VITX crew are sales people down to their blood and marrow, but I also trust what my eyes can see and what they see is a company that in the next few years has a far greater chance for growth and success than average.
If I had the cash we'd already be back to .02 because I'd be buying up everything under there.
wonder whats taking them so long for everything
This next one should be the first since the absorbed Vitana-EU so is the first the CPA has to deal with the MLM money structure. I suspect that is unusual enough in their experience they probably need to do some extra research to get it right.
It is also possible they are wanting to upload the attorney letter at the same time, which means a review there.
Here is what he is referencing I think.
https://www.tdameritrade.com/retail-en_us/resources/pdf/cesecuritylist.pdf
It is not relevant to VITX, or to dark as a class but only to Caveat Emptor and they even have a list of the specific securities.
Over 8 million shares going at these prices, can you imagine.
People scared that filings droppings didn't instantly move the needle fled and a few days of drops took out some other shaky money with new money looking in and seeing the last few days and wondering what people know that they don't.
I think it is kind of funny because I expect the upcoming news will do exactly what those leaving wanted. The next few quarterlies are the ones that actually matter, and that stop sign going down is going to bring a lot of volume.
You were such a constant source of positive energy over there. When they took you and a few of the others out everything got enormously more negative.
So confusing to be this low
It really makes my mind hurt, I was surprised that we were hanging so steadily under .02. Even if we can't see every moving part of this company we can see that they are out there tirelessly building networks, developing new products, and setting the stage for future expansion and we are in early on something that has a well above average chance to be a real powerhouse in a few years.
I can't imagine a short really wanting to be on the wrong side of that. I can't imagine MLMs wanting to get on the wrong side of that, or if they are playing games playing them to a degree where they would cause this much disruption.
I can't imagine a legit seller holding millions of shares deciding they want to be out so desperately they'll just sell at market.
The action is just very weird.
I was unaware professional accreditation was a requirement for people to make pertinent points. Snark aside.
For my own education, what we're looking at here are convertible notes correct? My research was showing that those do classify as debt at the moment (and could remain that way) until such time as the conversion conditions are met at which point they become equity). What I could find online said it was typical to log those as debt until they converted, is that not what is going on in this case?
I'm not going to get into a fight making a bearish argument for a stock I am overwhelmingly bullish on.
I look forward to the release of the quarterlies. Hopeful we get enough of a glimpse of how things are going now to be able to do some better forecasting going forward.
Hopefully this calms people down a little. I've been missing the days everyone wondered when we'd hit a quarter and was speculating a dollar by Christmas.
Most of the fearmongers shots have been missing, but I think them playing up financials fear over and over shook a big holder or two loose in the last week. Hopefully they buy back in before the run.
Annual Report Impressions
Glad to have one! Hope we see quarterlies soon. The period covered here is badly lacking in income information.
A lot of what is shown isn't surprising in the startup stage, but I hope the quarterlies do start to show a shift. In this period they burned millions in cash and took in a lot of private debt financing.
Still not sure who Wolfgang is or their role in reports, the numbers were prepared by a CPA out of Texas as an independent contractor.
We'd speculated if the financials would be audited or not (they're not). That rules out theories they might be going OTCQB, although I believe they could still be going OTCQX.
What I think most of us want to know which is how revenues are shaping up aren't in these figures. As others have said, if there are nice surprises to come it wasn't here but there also wasn't anything terrible.
I think the expense of a professional IR and PR person for the stock is just about the last thing they need. Important events have gotten a press release, and while they have some obligation to address investor concerns they aren't dead silent on that angle.
"We're waiting" isn't the answer we as investors love but it is a valid one, and given how complicated the situation probably is, also the right one. They don't need to go throwing away cash so a few shaky handed investors are, perhaps, temporarily less shaky handed for a few weeks.
What they do need, and hopefully have, is either an accounting firm or an inhouse accountant that can both manage the complications likely to be caused from their growth and also help to keep them up to date on corporate obligations.
So far as I can tell they are mostly sales guys, and I'm guessing they probably used to roll their eyes at what a pain in the tail backroom pencil pushers could be. But, they need one. That sort of thing was what GH was obviously good at and when that team left after the name change it really exposed that weakness. They can fix it, and hopefully have, time will tell.
That site is funny because of the sidebar showing how much you would make listening to their signals. Tons of trading back and forth, for a nice profit over the years. But, if you bought at their original position and held until now you'd be further ahead than their signals would have gotten you. I guess it all works out when there current advice is holding for the long term.
Back when they first filed the name change to Vitana-X in late 2019 they also filed an intent to do a reverse split for the purposes of uplisting. That had a year time limit on it, which has since expired with no further talk from them.
That was under the old CEO, but with majority shareholder approval (who are still there).
It is still their plan? I wouldn't be surprised. If so I don't consider it a terrible thing, while no fan of reverse splits in general that is because they are often used just to raise the price so more shares can be unloaded by the company to generate funds. That isn't how they've been operating so far, and uplisting is a legitimate reason to do a major share structure change.
I think they more fit on the big exchanges than on the OTC and both the increased visibility and access would be good for the stock and they seem unlikely to hit the needed share price without out (at least, for the next few years).
I've had a bit of cognitive dissonance from it because it seems like such an obvious play to me I am surprised the price has remained where it is.
I think it is a matter of who is doing the shopping. A lot of OTC runners promise some form of disruptive technology, or to literally strike oil, or to have reinvented water. I don't think anyone can really make the case that micellization is a disruptor as much as it is a differentiator. This company is mostly about making a range of products and selling them.
The people most likely to get excited about the stock as it stands now are value investors or those who want in early on a solid revenue growing business and they aren't much looking at the OTC, and even if they are, are putting a big pause on anything with a stop sign. I've rolled my eyes a tiny bit at all the recent focus on fins, but in this case they really might make quite a difference.
Real estimates are tough, and are going to be tough for awhile, because of their growth and the entrance into so many new markets. If their Austria sales were ten million plus as has been rumored we can make some guesses.
With Europe now having fully gone live this year it doesn't seem improbable to me that we see hundreds of millions in sales this year if their production capacity can keep up. Add a growth level multiplier to that and I think a billion valuation seems reasonable, and might even be conservative. Opening the US market in 2022 has the potential to double those sales and the valuation.
People on this board have gotten a lot more glum lately (which I actually take as a good sign. Exhausted and weary longs, a narrow range, and a deep consolidation phase all point towards good things soon fins or no fins). Still, I think seeing a $1 price in a year is not an unreasonable hope, and $2 within two years too. Momentum FOMO magic juice could of course give silly short term multipliers to those values for a short term.
I get greedy watching lightning strike elsewhere too, but I still just can't see anywhere else I feel as likely to get a 100x return in two years as this stock.
Surprised to have had shakeout at all.
I'm not happier than anyone else that filings are taking awhile and for reasons that have nothing to do with the PPS. Filing for a public company is not just a legal obligation to monitoring agencies and the exchanges themselves but also an ethical responsibility to shareholders. They've had time to get their house in order, it reflects poorly that they haven't.
That being said, I just can't come up with anywhere else I could expect a return like I might here within 1 to 2 years.
We have zero backup for the "12 million" in Austria claim floating around but it doesn't strike me as unreasonable. With scaling up and going fully into Europe several hundred million this year doesn't strike me as an unreasonable number and if that happens the market valuing a growth stage company with those kind of numbers in the 1 to 2 billion range. Those numbers would put us around $1 a share without any structural changes and the entry into the full launch into the US market in 2022 can double up those sales and boost the share price with it.
While there are never any guarantees, I can't think of any other stock where I would deem a 100x return in 2 years a "reasonable" possibility.
None of my business really, but I've seen you comment before that you would buy more if only these other stocks turned around and increased so you weren't at a loss.
While I understand the pain of seeing something negative on the sheet, and of taking a loss, it seems to me the wrong thinking. If you believe another stock is likely to go up 50x to 100x what you are buying in at, why hold off buying more hoping that something doubles so you can get out even. You are passing up opportunity for pride. It seems to me the market loves to punish that sort of behavior harshly.
To me the market always feels sort of like poker. DD is card counting, knowing what is coming before it arrives. Chart reading is reading the other players at the table and knowing how they are likely to act. It sucks to fold, and sometimes if you stick in with a pair of twos you are going to take the pot and feel amazing about yourself but it is a bet that on average you are going to lose. Bet big on those big hands, even if it means folding elsewhere.