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Bouf...
Bouf..Everything takes time..There was not a world sufficient number of C-19 dx tests.. a couple of weeks ago we we did not have a lot of cases in the USA..So what made sense with a limited number of tests was not testing all medical personnel..But to conserve the limited number of tests for those showing clinical signs and symptoms of the virus. Because even though the disease can be spread by asymptomatic carriers..It is still far more likely that someone who does have symptoms is more likely to have the disease, carry the disease or die from the disease.
The decision was based on practical reasons and common sense.
":>) JL.
PS.My keyboard is failing. Might have the COMP-19 virus.
":>) JL
duke..
Quote."35% of hospitalized patients in Louisiana are on mechanical ventilators according to an ABC news report on TV."
That sounds way too high..I'm not sure where you would get that information.as you would need to to canvas all The Hospital in the state. I would guess patients on ventilators would be in critical care..Intensive care units or the like. I'm not sure hospitals I have worked in had 35% of patients in intensive care units and not everyone in the ICU is on a ventilator.
":>) JL
jasbg...
I have nothing against Dr. Oz...I do not normally read his articles..But I have seen his comments along with doctor Raoult and I am impressed and a supporter of Raoult...I know he has his skeptics and I have seen six or seven different versions of the results of his short clinical trial using HCQ and azythromycin..Medicine, unfortunately, can be very political with doctors taking sides..sometimes not based on science.
He is involved with the multi country huge European trial on C-19 drugs...I believe I read the results should come out in a matter of days...This trial should answer a number of questions..
":>) JL
Re: Respirators and the Virus,,
Respirators are mainly effective in situations where the lungs have not been injured but the patient is too weak to breath or has lost the respiratory drive due to neurological injury or disease..
Respirtors are less valuable for conditions where the lung tissue is damaged of infected or the bronchioles are plugged or filled with fluid..
Polio was good example of a disease that might benefit from a respirator because the the disease attacked nerves in the spinal chord or in the brainstem..(Bulbar Polio).While the lungs remain normal unless pneumonia ensued. Through the much of the pre Salk days we had only Iron Lungs which were nowhere near as effective as modern respirators
The statistics in this viral epidemic are going to be much more effected by the efficacy of the drugs that are used to eradicate the virus: than the number of available respirators...Please understand respirators will be useful some cases..But the drugs are much more important..
":>) JLK
Re: the recent large trial evaluating COVID-19 drugs...
I have not been keeping up with the board. Has the multi country HCQ and CQ and other drugs study been commented on...I read they have thousands of patients enrolled in study that is evaluating the various Anti COVID-19 virus drugs including several of the newer drugs.
I think they said they would have the results in a short number of days and this might clear up some of the questions about which drugs if any are effective early or late during the course of the disease..
":>) JL
gandalf...
News from MIddle Earth...Very funny comment...
":>) JL
LBL...
Outstanding post...
":>) JL
Mr.1979....
Well the realities are we do not see world wide contagions that threaten the economies of all countries as well as everyone's health very often..This is the IHub board and I stands for investor...I think the virus certainly effects investors...
Right now the biggest news re: Amarin is Judge Du's determination..and frankly we can do little about that. It is out of our control...But if you feel the need to make a bunch of posts about it..Feel free..and if you want to ignore the potentially devastating consequences of the COVID-19 virus..good for you..you are a very brave soul....
Right now IMO the COVID-19 has an import that transcends the OT issue...I say Amarin right now is a side issue compared to the Virus..We have a lot of smart people on this board...Everything we post is not always correct..but I believe most of us try at least to post valid information..but the subject is complicated and the possibility of posting incorrect information is high..So we need the interplay of posters which has the effect of helping to get important issues clarified..A lot of disinformation is political..and we would be better off if we don't take sides...but rather seek the truth....
It seems to me as a clinician that we are coming up with some very good drugs that can lower the risk of the virus..These include not only the malaria drugs CQ and HCQ...but other drugs which end in the suffix vir..and all of them seem to be quite effective..At lowering or removing the virus counts...We have learned we also need to treat the secondary bacteria pneumonias..That accompany the viral pneumonia...Azithromycin seems to be a good choice...
There is a inflammatory component to the clinical situation..some of these drugs seem to lower that threat...There is no proof EPA would improve outcomes..but it might...IMO the need for respirators are not going to be needed in the quantities suggested..Respirators are only effective if there is enough functional lung surface..Ensuring that, is going to fall on the drugs...Please do not misinterpret this as saying we don't respirators...we do..Just probably not hundreds of thousands..
As far as this being the Amarin board..I'm sure I echo the sentiments of all longs..We need a favorable opinion from the Hon. M. Du..
":>) JL
Of note is this information is being disseminated by "Bloomberg"...Now where have I heard that name...
This is a very deceptive article..This article does not say Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) is not effective it says HCQ was no more effective than conventional treatment and then it rattles off ritonavir...lopinavir and antibiotics (ie,,Azithromycin) as the conventional treatment..
Quote (from the article) "Of the 15 patients given the malarial drug 13 of them tested negative for the C-19 virus after one week...Hardly what I would say is unimpressive...Of the "conventional treatment (ie using the latest anti viral drugs)..14 of them tested negative for the virus...
So the reults were essentially the same..both being impressive..I leave it to your imagination as to which of these regimens is the most expensive..Whether it is the generic HCQ...or new wonderdrug which operates on the RNA sequence..and could have long term side effects..as drugs that screw with the DNA/RNA sequences frequently have...Fact is we have 50 years experience with HCQ and practically none with the other
drugs..
I would definitely chose the HCQ over the new drugs...
":>) JL
zip...
Well what in the hell do you and I know know? You are just an eye doctor with an MD degree and I am just an "ass doctor"...Even though in my entire career I have never operated on an "ass"...that includes my fellow humans or the four legged variety.
But what do we know?? We are not Democratic governors or Matt Herper who know more than the MDs....These governors think they know more than the experts and are willing to sacrifice their constituents because of their hatred of the president and their own lust for power. I never thought I would see this in the USA..
":>) JL
hump4....
Your post and its references should be read by every one on the board...
Please, everybody do yourself a favor and listen to the results from treating patients with Chloroquine 500 mg PO QD....And the explanation of how it works to eradicate the virus...This is real science and not ignorance...
We can't have governors who hate Trump preventing their citizens from receiving effective treatment because Trump has endorsed it...
":>) JL
PS there was one death in Raout's French trial...but the patient was on hyroxychoroquine but not Azithromycin..The patient was treated for two days and by day two had a undetectable level of Virus..He died the third of a bacterial pneumonia.a "super infection"..Which might have been cured by a Z-pac...
":>) JL
Bolio98...
The COVID virus situation is deadly serious and we don't need people throwing gasoline on the fire of doubt...
Some of the skepticism is coming from "Medical Experts" like Mathew Herper who many us know from his opinions on Vascepa..Chloroquine shows considerable promise as a therapeutic agent and Hydroxychloroquine might be even more effective...The study done by Didier Raoult in Marseille was very impressive and has been peer reviewed. And that means it is not anecdotal as Fauci said..Right now we must stop this war on Trump and put our nation and its people ahead of our politicians ambitions..We need to support our government and our President...The following is an
US Academic Study...
US academic study concurs
A new academic study, published on Friday March 13 by US scientific researchers, also said that chloroquine appeared to be an effective treatment, and appears to align with the findings in France.
It said: “Use of chloroquine (tablets) is showing favorable outcomes in humans infected with Coronavirus including faster time to recovery and shorter hospital stay…
“Research shows that chloroquine also has strong potential as a prophylactic (preventative) measure against coronavirus in the lab, while we wait for a vaccine to be developed.
“Chloroquine is an inexpensive, globally available drug that has been in widespread human use since 1945 against malaria, autoimmune and various other conditions…[it] can be prescribed to adults and children of all ages.
"It can also be safely taken by pregnant women and nursing mothers [and] has been widely used to treat human diseases, such as malaria, amoebiosis, HIV, and autoimmune diseases, without significant detrimental side effects.”
Researchers worldwide are continuing to work on developing a vaccine against Covid-19.
So far, no country - nor the World Health Organisation (WHO) - has officially published treatment measures against Covid-19, but in China and South Korea, guidelines already outline the use of chloroquine as an “effective treatment”, the study report said.
What is true is we do not have an FDA approved outcomes trial. I am certain some of you can understand that is not proof that the drug does not work..Look at Vascepa...and the R-I trial...It came down to a final AdCom and we were very lucky the adcom finally decided Vascepa was safe and effective and should be given label for the CVD indication..It was a close call in the late hours..and that is with drug with very few side effects and statistically proven therapeutic benefits..
If we have wait for FDA and the Faucis to give us the go ahead..Half the population in the USA might be dead...If I contract the infection I want to be treated with hydroxychoroquine and a Z-pac..Somehow I think if Fauci comes down with an infection my guess is he will be hoping for the same thing..
":>) JL
invest...
Sounds like you had Guillain Barre' syndrome AKA "ascending paralysis"....
As far as I know..not associated with the COVID-19 virus..Usually recovery is fairly complete..I have not heard it is associated with loss of smell.
":>) JL
TTE..
Maybe Deena the reporter could wash that medication down with a little bleach...Don't know who is dumber this reporter or Fauci..Who thinks the the French study is just "anecdotal".
":>) JL
The comotion is about the future..
Right now if we do the right thing we have a great chance to stop the contagion...and I am with you on the fact the numbers are not very scary at this time...The problem is the numbers can increase if everybody wants to be stupid about it...Its like a fire...easier to contain when it is an ash tray...Not so easy when its gets to the roof being on fire...
":>) JL
dukes....
Same thing on the Florida Beaches...Wall to wall packing. All "back to back" and belly to belly...We shut the economy down so these a-holes can counter the effects of distance separation and they simply counterfeit it..
I think we have shut all the beaches down as a result. I live next to wild life park...And same thing.. gangs of young adults in tight circles..It's crazy...They leave their crowded work places so they can get closer together..and spread the disease..
":>) JL
TET...
Nice post...I agree...We are not facing a dinosaur situation..
":>) JL
TTE...
Cytokine Storm...Its complicated...Cytokine Release syndrome (CRS) occurs when the inflammatory system is triggered by infection or sometimes drug interactions or serious infections when there is significant number of cells dying...If the effect is major it is called a Cytokine Storm...Cytokines are pro inflammatory eicosanoids that are produced by white blood cells and their actions can actually induce the production of more white cells and increased inflammation in a vicious cycle...Cytokines also recruit t-cell and other immune cells to the effected area.
Though I was unaware of this apparently HCQ does have rather significant anti inflammatory effects...Quote..."In inflammatory conditions, HCQ blocks toll-like receptors on plasmacytoid dendritic cells (PDCs). Hydroxychloroquine, by decreasing TLR signaling, reduces the activation of dendritic cells and the inflammatory process.
Dendritic cells are very nasty and carry deadly poisons and these are recruited in inflammatory situations...They kill virtually everything they come into contact with..
I do believe Vascepa might offer additional benefits// Although HCQ is very well designed to counteract this contagion
":>) JL
Why the inflammatory system might be a threat in the case of COVID-19...
The inflammatory system works very well in most locales of the body..But not so well in the lungs...One of the actions of the inflammatory system is the fact it makes the small vessels "leaky"...
There are four Cardinal signs on inflammation..Rubor, dolor, cholor and tumor..these are redness..pain, heat and swelling...The swelling is actually caused because inflammation makes the small vessels more permeable.. That is to let white cells and antibodies leave the bloodstream and go out into the cytoplasm..but as a consequence fluid also leaks out of the vessels and that can be a real problem if the inflammation is in the lungs which it is in this contagion..
Increased extracellular fluid in the lungs impairs transport of oxygen into the pulmonary blood vessels and prevents the expulsion of CO2 out..In essence it is no different than drowning...Inflammation may help fight the infection but in the lungs it may kill you..Controlling the inflammation in treating this condition should be a priority..
":>) JL
@twi
I'm not sure my post was clear..It is a speculation..
What our concept of how a disease works and what the real pathophysiology is are sometimes very different...Take the example of Ambrose Pare' a French "Barber Surgeon" in the 16th century...
Pare' performed 19 amputations after the 1537 siege of Turin...And after the last one he was informed that they were out of boiling oil...The SOC at that time was to treat amputation by immersing them in boiling oil...The reason was not as some surgeons of today think, to prevent bleeding...You can not staunch bleeding from the Femoral Artery by cauterising..Surgeons then had to tie off the artery with ligature as they would today...
The reason for the boiling oil in those days was the widespread opinion that gun powder was poisonous and caused tetnus...
Pare went to bed that night with a heavy heart convinced all would be dead by the morning....When he awoke and went to see the patients he was amazed to find they were doing very well and did not have the 105 degree temperatures which were usually the case after treating with boiling oil..
My point in the earlier post was we have the disease (the virus) and we have the body's response to the disease...Which is an assault from the inflammatory system...The inflammatory system in and of its own can be just as bad as any disease because it is a killer...And is capable of attacking the host..and killing the host.. The specifics in this process certainly raise that possibility..In the case of this virus...
":>) JL
The plausibility of treating COVID-19 infections with Vascepa....
I am putting forth a speculation that Vascepa (EPA) may not prevent infection of the COVID-19 virus but may mitigate the consequences of the infection to the point it is no longer any deadlier than a common cold..
Here is my reasoning..The MOA of the C-19 virus is that it enters the cell via ACE2 receptors...Uses the cytoplasmic machinery to replicate the RNA virus till the cell can no longer contain the virus which then causes the more virus to enter the blood stream and infect other cells..and from there the viral count continues to increase..
A personal observation is I use to get severe outbreaks of Herpes Simplex which were painful and unattractive...They occurred regularly at six week intervals..and were accompanied with headaches, malaise and some degree of depression..I could feel them coming on as there was a tingling sensation..When I started taking Vascepa my herpes outbreaks completely disappeared and I have not had a single outbreak in the last eight years..I do not doubt for a minute the Herpes has gone away...What I do think is the inflammatory response to herpes has gone away...
The point is, there is ample clues that elevated SI may have a significant deleterious effect on those who are infected with the COVID-19 Virus. What other explanation as to why the elderly and patients with T2DM and CVD are more likely to have the serious form of the disease...The virus is the same...in benign cases as it is in the severe cases...The virus is just as effective at invading the cells of the young as it is the old..A plausible explanation is that Diabetics and patients with CVD already have elevated SI and the inflammatory response is higher in individuals with Diabetes and CVD...And it is the degree that inflammatory system out of control which defines the severity of the disease..Cut the inflammatory response and you cut the severity of the disease.
IMO it would interesting to use Big Data to track people on Vascepa and find out how many of them have succumbed to the Virus...My guess would be there are few if any...
":>) JL
gg...
IMO...Dissemination of the virus requires either human contact directly or indirectly off surfaces..The surfaces have to have been contaminated by humans who are infected...
So the spread of people infected by the virus is almost completely dependent on the number of infected individuals (symptomatic or asymptomatic) and the number of non infected people they come into contact with...Contact leading to infection requires the virus to be in contact with the mucus membranes or eye conjunctiva.Vagina or anus..New cases are not possible without these contacts... the virus is not airborne.
Eliminate contacts and the virus can spread...The Japanese are a high trust society and they follow rules..This current COVID-19 situation where the most important thing in lowering individual risk is not taking medicine.. But following the rules...Don't get into close contact with others..Stay indoors with people you live with..If you do go out to the store..keep as much difference between strangers as you can..Then wash your hands with soap or alcohol,,,And wipe down your door knob with a disinfectant.After you get home...Try to avoid putting your hand on your face..or in your mouth..
If you need exercise go on a walking path..if it is not crowded..
he low incident of cases in Japan (a very crowded country) is living proof in the power of preventing spread from others or surfaces..and just following the rules..
":>) JL
I'm sorry, but I am not buying "The End of humanity and the rise of the virus"
Historically mankind has faced far worse epidemics with a lot less knowledge and science that we now have...In the the thirteenth century the black plague...Caused by a bacteria Pasteurella Pesti ravaged the known world...It was far more more lethal than COVID-19 and antibiotics was not even a concept in those days..The plague actually re-occurred a couple of times..Like all contagions it just petered out...The 1918 Great Influenza was many times more deadly than this current virus and killed the young and healthy...This virus kills the old and unhealthy...Since I am old and unhealthy, I suppose I should be worried for myself as well as humanity..but I am not that concerned.
Both the black death and the 1918 virus were airborn and that definitely makes the situation much worse..This current virus requires contact with mucus membranes to be transmitted..That means unless someone who is already infected must cough, sneeze, or transport the virus to your person or to a surface that you will touch or come into contact with and then transfer the virus to your mouth, nose, eyes, anus or vagina...or an open wound..
You don't need an army of medical personnel to protect you and you won't get the disease from the air unless someone around you is coughing or sneezing.
Don't want the disease...Stay away from other people. If you come into contact with any one..If they come into your house don't let them stay more than 10 minutes and after they leave wash your hands with alcohol or soap...Wipe down any surfaces they have touched. Make sure anyone you are living with is not congregating outside your house...Ask..Were you at a bar...the store...the sub way..If yes insist they shower...and wipe all the surfaces..If you work at a job...make sure that co workers respect your personal space and your company provides sprays and wipes to treat surfaces...use latex gloves if your work requires you to come into contact with surfaces..
The virus is not the boogie man nor is it magic..Stay in the present and stay awake..Simple measures can cut your risk down to close to zero..
Regarding Hydroxychloroquine and z-mycin..The French study did show that Hydroxychloroquine does cut the viral count down to zero in almost every case...The one death in the study was not because the drug didn't lower the viral load..The patient who died had a zero viral load.The problem was that patients who get the virus are susceptible to bacterial pneumonia (called a super infection) and unless you treat the bacterial infection the patient may still die.. In the elderly or those with other conditions like T2DM or cardiovascular disease..the burden of the viral load may tip the scales and cause you to succumb to other underlying conditions when the virus stresses your other systems..
I don't know about hammers and dancing...What I do know is the old nostrum an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure..The prevention here is stay away from other people you don't know other than your immediate family and make sure your immediate family stays away from other people too..
The virus might mutate...That was the case in 1918...but more likely being a retro virus...it will weaken over time and lose its lethality...
":>) JL
Back to the French study...( back to work.0..
The death of one patient in this trial does reflect negatively on Hydroxy chloroquine as an effective drug to treat this virus..The drug was very effective at lowering the viral count and lowering it down to zero levels.
What happened however is the virus was not the killer in cases who remained sick,,,But super infection caused by bacteria. That was the rationale for using Azithromycin ( a bacterial agent)...The one patient who died was actually PCR negative on day two (no viral count) but died on day number three (most likely from bacterial pneumonia)..
Patients who remained sick at day six were started on Azithromycin in addition to the HCQ and they rapidly improved..So even with the one death and some who quit the study for various reasons the results of this trial are very impressive..And suggest we will be able to contain the contagion.
":>) JL
-\+
';LKJHGZ+
I must apologise MagWhitch...
Your rendition of the trial including one patient dying is correct..Hydroxy chloroquine was significantly able to lower viral levels but there was one death in the study...I did not realise there were several more pages the followed the initial ones..and I did not discover that until going back and finding them...You are are correct in your reporting..The first three page seem to indicate they were only treating some 20 patients but that was not the case..
That does not mean the chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are not effective treatment for the COVID-19 virus..It's just probably no form of treatment is going to be effective if the disease is advanced enough...
Please except my apology...The details of the trial as I had been told are not as cut and dry as I was told...Your report is correct..
":>) JL
magwitch...
A you a a doctor..An MD.?
Quote: "Finally, while Chloroquine MAY at some point be determined to be useful in fighting Covid19,the only study so far involved 26 patients of whom 3 ended up in intensive care, one died, 2 quit for undetermined reasons and one quit because of nausea."
Where did you get this detailed information..I heard all were cured..This trial has also been peer reviewed..The French doctor who ran this was Didier Raoult...I note you do not mention..Are you describing some other study done by these others..
https://drive.google.com/file/d/186Bel9RqfsmEx55FDum4xY_IlWSHnGbj/view
This is the confirmed trial result and it does not line up with your post..I have to give you good marks for creative writing..But it is you that are the fraud and the phony..We on this board are not as stupid and gullible as to be fooled by you...
":>) JL
Irish///
Thanks for posting...This is indeed what is happening...We can not let Wall Street trade lives for money..Patterns are so obvious now that even morons can follow them...You can even follow the tick index and trade on that...Which shows where the short term movement is..
":>) JL
Jane...
Good advice...
":>) JL
TTE...
Great message...I agree...Trump is not really lovable...But his opponents would like nothing more than to see this contagion get out of control and kill millions of Americans if it can discredit Trump..And further their ambitions...They do not care about Americans..They just want to get elected .
The reality is Chloroquine was subject to a very rigid clinical trial in France by a French physician who is considered the number one..or one of the most respected Infectious disease specialists in the world..The trial has been peer reviewed and accepted..This is not being run by some Journalist in Demo land San Francisco...Chloroquine and Hydroxy Choroquine were successful in stopping the virus..in !00% of the cases...Amazing..This is not speculation..this is the facts...
The facts are FDA has not put COVID-19 on the Chloroquine label...They have approved its use in the USA...I think most of us on this board understand how finicky the FDA can get when it comes to labels..Vascepa is a perfect example...FDA would rather see half of USA citizens dead from the disease before they gave in on their regulations..
":>) JL
G550 driver...
Thanks for the input...
":>) JL
raf...
Chloroquine might be nasty to take..But it will get the job done and will "cure " the COVID-19 virus if taken in time..Millions of people have taken Chloroquine since it was introduced in 1945..Very few if any have died of the side effects..
":>) JL
Christina Farr is a graduate of Standford School of Journialism...
So that makes her an expert on the French Chloroquine trials ...She is just another BS Democrat reporter...Who does not know what she is talking about..
":>) JL
KIWI...
Guess you did not get the memo...The pandemic is over..The virus is not the fire blowing dragon its really just a limp paper dragon..Whose days are numbered by a 1945 drug...There won't be the 235 million deaths you have been dreaming about..Not going to get much higher than it is right now after they start dishing out the Chloroquine Tabs...
You probably won't take the medication though it may even be determined to be mandatory..No more Corona Virus wet dreams...It was all just a farce.. You can't resist throwing the possibility of a loss in the patent trial. Anything to pee on the parade..
":>) JL
options...
Sorry the last week or so I have become very defensive because my posts were not in line with many on this board and they have made me a target of their own uneducated opinions. Bucking the crowd is never very pleasant..I
":>) Jl
jasbg...
Chloroquine is one of the most widely used medicines on the planet because Malaria is one of the most prevalent diseases. It is off patent and might be made by Bayer or companies like it...It has been in use since 1945...
GILD's drug is most likely an antisense drug..or one that combats by changing the DNA or RNA sequences or blocking them...This drug is likely to be much more expensive than Chloroquine or Hydroxy Chloroquine... And more likely to have some significant side issues...
I am not an expert on GILD's drug...
":>) JL
Mag...
Thanx for the educational material...
":>) JL
Xena....
Cipro is vile...But so is dying from the virus..It's no worse than some of the antiarrythmics...
":.) JL
raf..
Nice post...Yes the numbers are the truth and the biggest number at present is there are only 155 deaths in the USA whose population is 327.2 million. that is about four and a half millioniths of one percent. .And if you believe the reports almost all these fatal cases are in the elderly who have comorbidities..Ie it is unclear whether the virus killed them or their underlying conditions...
I would appreciate any real source saying medical personnel are dying or have died from treating these pandemic patients...and some real numbers..skip the BS.
I do not argue about sick people staying home and everybody washing their hands...I am in the age group for which the virus is potentially lethal, but there are so many other conditions that are also lethal. I can not be bothered by this weak virus..Shutting down the economy and putting companies out of business is like shooting flies with a Bazooka. Death in my age group is a reality and we hardly need this hyped up hysteria....
All you disciples of the coming doom...Welcome to my world..The regular flu can and does kill you and it is far more prevalent than COV-19...As is cancer in all forms, heart disease and Alzheimers..None of which has been used to shut down the economy..
The COV-19 is not unstoppable...Chloroquine (CQ) and Hydroxy Chloroquine (HCQ ) have both been shown to be effective in human patients to eliminate the virus..Add Azithromycin add you get even higher cure rates...We know the doses...The drug (s) are not expensive..So why is not the administration gearing up the supply and using them for prophylaxis.
For souls at risk...Rather than shutting the economy down and putting companies out of business and workers out of their jobs.
Update: As per @DiderRaoult - the study shows combination of HCQ * Azithromycin is most effective treatment
— Gregory Rigano (@RiganoESQ) March 17, 2020
1 control group (placebo)
1 HCQ group
1 HCQ * Azithromycin group
follow his youtube for more info, major announcements coming ...