is Loving China.. considering learning Mandarian
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
One can be in the same. Non-affiliates can short their own holdings thus maximizing profits. It is done all the time, especially on PIPE deals.
You need to spend a few hours researching the regulations. If your in denial that the short volume reported by FINRA is incorrect, then you are basically saying that brokers are reporting false information and that the whole system is not working.
Fact is, this new reporting system was mandated by the SEC and is being used in a study which is what is being used to determine securities reform.
There are only 3 legal ways a broker can report a stock, "long", "short" and "short exempt". I think you are looking at selling stock short in a more broader sense of the term.
Keep in mind Joe, we are in the midst of something simply amazing.. the forced transparency of the markets. The deep ugly dark secrets are finally emerging.
This post by ThePennyGuru is very informative.. instead of being in denial, open your mind a little and review the information, then think on it for awhile.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=47041374
Joe, it is pretty simple. Yes the short volume is real and not made up.
I am giving a potential scenario that could happen under current regulations. I am in no way suggesting that this is what is happening with SIAF, however it is one of several scenarios.
If you have a large block, let's say 250,000 shares. The stock in question trades on average 150,000 shares a day. If you are lucky enough to have the proper resources, you could have a broker/MM sell short your shares intraday, while boxing the bid up and attempting to cover on the bid.
When you take into account the psychology of the OTC market, you could easily frustrate enough people to cover most of your shorts. If anything, this behavior is almost predictable. If bid support is weak, a MM can easily drive the price down since under current regulation there is no "uptick" rule in place for MM's. They can drive the price down by shorting and thus frustrating people out of the shares they just sold them at a higher price.
This process allows you to maximize your profits. If demand for the stock rises beyond your ability to hold the price down, you simply cover your shorted position with your holdings. Wait for the stock to settle back down to a support level and rinse wash repeat.
Over time however, volume and demand will eventually whittle away at your ability to leverage. On many OTC stocks however, they are simply too thinly traded to ever overcome such actions. Many PIPE financiers use this very tactic to maximize gains.
The short volume is real, it's just not being done in the fashion to which you have probably been accustomed to understanding.
The new rules and changes being made by the SEC will curb some of these abuses, but it won't eliminate them entirely. The approval of the "uptick" rule will at least minimize the "bear raid" abilities of this individuals who use brute force to "shake" or frustrate people out of a stock.
SIAF has been getting hammered according to Reg SHO.
Disclosure: I am the IR rep for SIAF. Glad something is getting done now.
What!! no more bear raids!! what will the hedge funds do now!! OMG.. they might actually have to conduct due diligence and make investment choices lol..
They are slowly closing all the loopholes that they have the power to do so. Folks can say what they want about the Obama administration, but the new SEC administration is doing more to fix problems now then they ever have. It's a slow process though. I just wish we didn't have to involve Congress on securities legislation.
I believe the SEC will use it's powers to fix some of the problems, but ultimate market reform lies in the hands of Congress and I have little faith in their abilities to pass any meaningful reforms.
We may simply end up with a whole new set of loopholes that can be exploited. At least some effort is being made to show transparency.
Now that we are getting that transparency, many who called for it now can't believe the data they are being shown.
It's as bad, if not worse than what many had thought.
Since nobody ever bothers to contact me to ask these questions, I will state them once and for all for the record. I do not wish to make it a habit using this forum, in fact I do not like doing so at all. However, if accurate information is not provided, this discussion will turn into the typical message board conspiracy theories.
The Company falls under the "shell provision" of Rule 144(i) in that post merger shares are ineligible for resale without a underlying registration statement or Form 10 filing, of which the Company is working to accomplish.
Resource: http://www.thelebrechtgroup.com/index.php/publications/tlg-publications/97-rule-144s-impact-on-shell-companies
Previously shares were issued to both consultants, service providers and promoters. As of 2/17/2010 there were 54,806,016 shares issued and outstanding. The restricted amount is 39,659,659 shares. The restricted amount are the shares that fall under the Rule 144(i)inclusion. This still leaves over 12M free trading shares.
What individuals are witnessing, is the re-distribution of some of these free trading shares. Now that the liquidity has improved in the stock, some of these individuals are deciding to sell. This is however not the result of newly issued shares hitting the market, but shares previously issued to past consultants and service providers which have met the required holding periods under Rule 144 for re-sale. To assume that every consultant who was issued stock has the desire to become a long term investor might be a bit over enthusiastic at best.
This process of redistribution however is not a negative for long shareholders, but is actually a positive. In the last few months, the shareholder base has grown from a little over 300 accounts, to over 1,000 accounts. The re-distribution has also increased the current tradeable float which has helped increase liquidity for investors. At one time the stock barely traded $10,000 a day and now it trades $100,000 a day. These are all positives for the Company moving forward. For a stock to have a robust and healthy market, it must first have a large and robust shareholder base.
Over time, as the Company is able to increase transparency and attract a broader range of investor sophistication, these current market woes will not be as much an issue. Increased interest and liquidity, along with continued shareholder growth will allow the Company to reach a relative value based on it's reported growth.
Please do not respond to this post for questions. There are proper channels to do such. I just want to squash any rumor or conspiracy theories right off the bat before they get out of hand.. as they tend to do on message boards.
They are not "insiders", insiders are considered Affiliates and fall under re-sale rules such as Rule 144. Non-affiliates are individuals such as consultants and service providers who were paid in shares and fall under a different category of Rule 144. As in any business, they are simply looking to get paid.. very few are "investors".
The biggest misconception many make is that the "Company" is selling. In most cases it is non-affiliates, or investors who are doing the selling. In some cases, well informed non-affiliates with the proper resources can and do short against their own holdings. This allows them to cover a percentage of their sales with retail purchases allowing them to generate additional cash flow while liquidating their position over time.
I simply think you are not as familiar with this subject as you might think you are.
In the case of SIAF, they fall under the "shell company" provision of Rule 144(i) in that all post merger shares are ineligible for re-sale under Rule 144 without registration or a suitable Form 10 filing. This is the reason the company is undertaking such efforts so that "insiders" can at some point in the future benefit from liquidity. However, no Company insider presently can even obtain non legend stock as a result of changes to Rule 144(i).
Resource: http://www.thelebrechtgroup.com/index.php/publications/tlg-publications/97-rule-144s-impact-on-shell-companies
As it stands right now, any selling is taking place by retail investors, or previous consultants/service providers such as those involved in post merger ie: Bellmont Partners and previous promoters.
So to assume this is "insiders" selling really is an incorrect statement. This is why reverse mergers are not the best way for a Company to go public. Going public through direct filings is always the preferred method but many consulting firms such as Belmont make reverse mergers appear more attractive than they really are, thus allowing them to heavily profit from such transactions.
Joe, the new SEC is trying to fix the problems. It started with changes to Rule 144(i) to curb pinksheet shell abuses. They recently forced FINRA to start reporting short sale reports. OTC reporting is only a few weeks old now. Now they are working to reign in shorting the bid side, which is something MM's can still do.
Give it time.. the dirty secrets of the market are coming to light and many, including you, are still in denial as to just how widespread the problems are.
UWRL shell is the ashes of Corey Ribotsky PIPE. Any company merging into this shell must not have done there due diligence. I don't even think post merger shares are eligible for resale under Rule 144(i). Who would want to buy an illiquid shell?
Someone must want to unload their worthless paper, Corey maybe?
Just my opinion of course, folks should conduct there own DD..
I dont want an i-hub poster representing a company I'm invested in.
Then don't buy SIAF, it is really that simple. However do not hold me responsible for the actions of management of companies I have previously worked for.
I don't know your level of investment experience, but in 2008 the market collapsed, credit markets seized up and many household names went bankrupt. Did you know Pontiac doesn't even exist anymore and you have the audacity to bring up RVGD? His business plan failed, guess what, it happens quite a bit. Not to mention his financier Steve Carnes is in trouble with the SEC for selling unregistered shares into the market. Do you see me mentioned in that investigation?? I'm the one who tipped the CEO off to the problem.
EXPH is here today because of my efforts to bring in a core group of investors which helped them survive. Most of which made out very well long after I left.
LDHL and Mr. Alying has yet to ever pay me a single share or dime, so don't think even individuals like me are immune to losses.
This message board and your opinions are not going to change the fundamentals of SIAF whether I am IR or not. Only unsophisticated investors rely on rumor and message board gossip for their investment information.
This will be my last post on this subject. You are welcome to spread your own opinions, misinformed gossip and second hand rumor all you wish, but I will not tolerate libelous statements and I will take action if I see an opportunity to do so. I'm not here to cater to individuals like yourself anyway, I'm here to provide actual investors with information they can make informed decisions on. Those same investors can then decide whether they want to invest, or not. Real investors take responsibility for their investments and don't blame others for not doing adequate research.
Kuwlness..
The Transfer Agent is open for you to contact. The third page of the Investor Presentation published by the Company provides you a wealth of information to conduct Due Diligence including phone numbers of Auditors, Attorney's and other Professionals working with the Company to confirm its published information. Nothing has not been published by the Company that is not in some way associated with an attorney, whether it be Pinksheets etc.
I have been a shareholder in the Company since early 2009 and I have taken great lengths to understand the business plan. As such, the Company offered me the position as IR in order to provide people like you with answers to their questions. That is my role here, nothing more, nothing less.
I do not appreciate the comment as you have not made one single attempt to contact me, nor have many of the individuals who post on this forum. I was hesitant to take the job of IR for this very reason as I always become the scapegoat for unsophisticated investors.
My job is to provide you with answers, if you are not asking questions I can not provide those answers for you to make an informed decision. Making negative remarks about me personally, I will not tolerate any longer. I believe this shows a lack of professional courtesy on your part and the herd mentality that seems to follow these forums.
One last thing regarding FOX..
Here ya go.. Straight from the Swiss.. a neutral entity...
http://www.newshounds.us/2010/02/01/fox_news_parent_company_news_corp_places_255th_out_of_581_companies_in_ethical_rankings_msnbc_parent_ge_in_top_ten.php#more
Anybody who watches FOX news, or more specifically, their pundits ie: Glen Beck, Bill O'Reilly etc.. Are "stupid" whether they be Progressive, Liberals or Aliens from Mars..
Here is a humorous site..
We watch FOX so you don't have to.
http://www.newshounds.us
Just another indicator that the number of stupid Americans continue to gain in numbers.
The decision was 5-4 so obviously a few on the supreme court disagree with you.
Corporations do not deserve the same rights as individuals. This is the reason we are in this mess to begin with. This allows groups to overpower individual speech. We need to have common sense in free speech.
Learn some history..
http://www.ratical.org/corporations/ToPRaP.html
Think about what you just said..
My whole point is that fascism points to an overbearing government restricting or controlling society, markets, etc behind the scenes perharps. It is not free market corporations rising above the power or influence of the government.
Who "IS" our Government? Who "CONTROLS" our Government? If you were to say the "people", you would be incorrect.
Americans on average are stupid, lazy and stubborn. I have traveled and lived abroad enough now to see this.
A humorous example..
Why is it that in Germany there are no speed limits? For those that didn't know this, the "autobahn" is not some lone stretch of road in Germany.. it is their entire freeway system.
They have no speed limits because they understand the concept that the left lane is for passing only and are polite enough to follow the rules. Now the next time you are out driving on the freeway, notice how many Americans understand that concept. See just how many will move out of your way when you approach them from behind in the left lane. In fact, most will stubbornly refuse to move over. That is American culture in a nutshell.
When you combine that mentality with our culture of entertain me now. With media, controlled by Corporations, with Politicians controlled by Corporation and their special interests.. etc..
You in essence no longer have a Government of the people, by the people. You have a Government who is the puppet of Corporations and special interests.
The simplest definition of Fascism is a society in which Corporations and the Government have merged and the voice of the people have been drowned out. When you have so many stupid, lazy Americans, voting based on what they watch on TV, instead of actually taking the time to independently verify what is being said.. the guy with the most money backing him will inevitably win elections. How is that what our founding fathers invisioned? Our biggest problem is Education.. we have a Country full of lazy, stupid people who can name every contestant on American idol, but can't name the three branches of Government and it is these people who are electing our leaders... sad, very sad.
This is the reason China is going to economically and socially steamroll us. They are Socialist/Capitalist hybrid, they don't have all the red tape and bull#$$% to deal with.
I have enjoyed some of his films, but if your trying to paint me as a fan boy I'm anything but. I'm not a Liberal.. or a Conservative.. I'm Chad, an individual with many opinions.. some conservative.. some liberal..
If your trying to compare a Michael Moore film however to "Hillary: the Movie" it only further shows your disregard to openly look at the situation.
Michale Moore has yet to make and release a film during an election in which he singles out one individual, paints them in a negative light, while that individual is running for president.
His films have always been on a larger topic in which numerous people are often discussed.
No, there are vast differences between the two. The only similarities is they were shown in theaters.
I'm curious how you could even compare? I highly doubt you have even seen a Michale Moore movie. Be honest.. God is listening.. have you even sat through an entire Michale Moore film?
The reason I ask is my Father in law is a staunch conservative, Glen Beck listening, I hate Obama, Liberals are the downfall of America type individual. He has shared his vast opinions with me about Michael Moore... but oddly enough, he admits he has never even seen one of his films...
Hmmmm.... interesting. I have noticed one difference between my "liberal" and "conservative" friends. My liberal friends tend to speak from personal experience.. whereas my conservative friends seem to speak from second hand accounts...
The definition of "Fascism" has been defined in numerous ways, hand picking one of those definitions to suit your response is very short sighted at best. Just as there is not one single definition for Democracy, there is no single definition for Fascism.
Political Scientist Laurence W. Britt identified 14 points shared by the previous fascist regimes of Hitler, Mussolini, Pinochet, Suharto and Franco. Those 14 points were..
1.) Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
2.) Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
3.) Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
4.) Supremacy of the Military
5.) Rampant Sexism
6.) Controlled Mass Media
7.) Obsession with National Security
8.) Religion and Government are Intertwined
9.) Corporate Power is Protected
10.) Labor Power is Suppressed
11.) Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
12.) Obsession with Crime and Punishment
13.) Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
14.) Fraudulent Elections
Obviously you have done absolutely no research into the case then if that is your "opinion". I just wish the media would spend more time talking about the actual case and not who frowned, trying to read lips, or the break in protocol..
I just hope this is a sign that the Obama administration is going to take the gloves off and quit being pussies. Up until that speech, I was not very happy with his efforts to "change" anything.
America Welcome to Fascism..
At least Obama pointed out what many of us have been keeping a close eye on in his State of the Union address regarding the supreme court ruling. Even I was watching this event long before it made headline news (link back). Why? Because I care about this country and do not wish to see it become a Fascist State ruled by Corporate money and supported by a fringe, narrow minded Christian fundamentalist movement.
It is a sad day indeed when Americans are too stupid.. or simply too ignorant not to understand how that decision was the most STUPID ruling ever.. and only proves MONEY rules our political system..
Whether you are Democrat, Republican or Independent.. You should be disgusted by that ruling.
SIAF Investor Relations Contact
Just so you guys know, and no I won't be posting anymore after this so don't send me PM's or reply expecting one. Now that it is official I thought I would at least let you guys know that I am now the official IR contact for SIAF. That is the reason I am no longer participating on the forums. I don't think it would set the professional example I am trying to create for the Company.
If you wish to contact me feel free @ 281-210-4204. I doubt there is anyone that knows the Company better than me (and the reason I got the gig, aside from my good looks!)
Good entry btw.. right off the bottom trend line.
My Last Post..
Farewell everyone.. I'm now working on projects that are a direct conflict of interest by staying on Ihub.
I can be found on Facebook under "Chad Sykes".
As mentioned earlier, Ag stocks are exempt from the latest attempts by the China government to control out of control growth. They should be a good hedge once the general market figures it out. Much of the pull back in China stocks is the result of the latest news coming out of China that Banks are being required to leverage less.
Something the U.S. should watch and learn from..
Only more Proof China is doing everything possible to stimulate Agriculture growth. I have spoken with the CEO of SIAF numerous times and basically he has stated the Government is literally giving money away for Ag projects, especially ones that help rural farmers (Reason for SIAF's use of Farmer cooperatives).
Even though I am an SIAF fan boy.. this effects all Ag stocks positively, especially ones that depend on rural co-ops.
Yeah I noticed every stock in my watch list is down today. Was wondering what was up.
Btw.. here is a discussion you might better fit in at..
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_(A_to_Z)/Stocks_S/threadview?m=tm&bn=73623&tid=132&mid=132&tof=28&frt=2
I personally don't care to much for the "personal opinion" injections seen on most forums based on no facts, or taking available information and twisting it.
To me it is nothing more than "pot stirring" and message board blather. It has zero benefit to the forum in terms of actionable information. It is tainted with opinions and bias.
feeding exclusively on corn causes unnaturally high levels of bacteria
If your interested in learning about the Company's stock feed technology, you should conduct some due diligence on your own instead of trying to insinuate there are "elephants in the room" on a message board based on a one liner from a PR boiler plate. The post almost insinuates a desire to "stir the pot" if anything.
Here is an excerpt from an email I had with the CEO while conducting my Due diligence (message boards are not for conducting due diligence). From my talks with the CEO, there is a blend of various grasses, cereal seeds, sweet potato leaves, sun flower stems and yes.. corn stalks. Corn is obviously the base, as it is the base in just about everything consumed on this planet. However it is not the only ingredient in their stock feed.
ZhungXing also sells part of the livestock feed that is manufactured in house for in house use to the regional farmers. Raw materials such as corn, sunflowers and various other types of cereal seeds and pasture grass are cut up and mixed by our mixing machines that are designed to mix the exact nutrients needed for the dairy cows or cattle. The livestock feed is stored in our storage facilities that can store twenty five thousand tons over the winter period that normally lasts approximately 5 months of the year.
Do you know what the term Organic means in the food industry? It means no un-natural chemicals or additives. When the "organic" craze was first started, it was due to the unpopularity of pesticides.
Organic does not refer to to what a cow "naturally" eats. I would suppose in the wild, a cow if hungry enough would probably eat the bark off of trees or leaves on a small bush... your point really has little logic at all.
Management is the company. No matter how cool the product, or market niche.. it always boils down to management.
Some people don't realize this.. but when you invest in a company.. in essence you are investing in the people who run the company.. not the business itself.
I knew these guys were top notch when I made the connection between "Fish Protech" and Capital Award..
What does it mean when a Company like SIAF has a stellar CC with amazing guidance, trades well over $1M dollars and has a 52 week high breakout.. but there is not one single new Ihub boardmark and only a handfull of posts on Ihub?
I tell ya what it means.. It means the stock has finally gained the attention of REAL INVESTORS!!!!!!!!
Let me say that again.. REAL INVESTORS!!
For those that know me.. I have been a long since the stock traded $.01's. Today.. I am breaking out the Champagne. I feel we have now crossed into a new era of this stock.
Yeah, it is still the step child in some respects due to being a pinksheet.. probably will outperform them all lol. That was probably one of the best CC's I have heard in the China market. Most the time you can barely understand what they are saying and they never really have any solid substance..
Well.. market must have liked it ;)
The AH T-Form trades don't count. They are normally re-prints from a broken up order during market hours. The last price at the close is the official closing price (ie: SIAF $1.44 up 15.2% and BSPM $4.46 up 6.44%)
I would suggest reading all the past PR's, then listen to today's CC. That should bring you up to speed.
day traders now in it.. making $100 flips. Liquidity is the key so I'm not complaining.. I welcome them with open arms.
SIAF CC MP3 download..
For those that missed it..
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Sino-Agro-Food-Inc-Provides-bw-801777390.html?x=0&.v=1
SIAF/Traderfan..
The CEO stated $.29 EPS expected with just organic growth. They are expecting $.32 EPS growth with $20M in funding. They have 5M shares already issued and outstanding that can be used to raise funding. They also currently have an investment bank reviewing a possible MESDAQ IPO (spin out).
In either case the CEO stated any financing would be done accretive to shareholders. He emphasized the fact that management held common like everyone else. In essence he isn't going to shot his own foot off..
He stated they have several options available and would utilize the best one. It is my understanding they do not need funding, however if it can be placed on favorable terms it would accelerate growth.
Hope that helps.
nah.. was just three questions.. I think most people probably hung up after guidance.
Burn shorty burn you prick..
SIAF Guidance 2010
Over $50M in revenue
Net $16M
$.32 EPS
Growth rate 123%
Without funding, organic growth only $.29 EPS
Long term projections 2011 $.51 EPS 2012 $.80 EPS