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I wanted to say, I love how you bring so much credible discussion to the table.
Me: Here is a case of canaccord committing fraud
You: "YOU'RE A LIAR!!!"
You're so cute.
Your commentary makes no sense.
My initial post wasn't fraud, it was fact based. As is this one.
Except, again, I've stated facts in my posts.
Figured it out.
Facts:
1) Canaccord advises cresco
2) Canaccord provides analyst coverage and recommendations for Cresco
3) Canaccord advises clients on investments, including clients invested in Cresco
Situation:
When the deal was penned the future outlook was more positive and equity was available. Also, the cash on the cresco and origin books was very different - it existed.
Just a few weeks ago, Cresco had to sell facilities to IIPR to support operations and raise $46 million. At the same time, what was Origin bringing to the table? Nothing, they ran out of cash (but had $40 million when the deal was penned back in April.)
The quickest access to capital to cover operating expenses and match what Cresco did was to dilute shares (which, as a result, adjusted the conversion). These shares are being used to cover merger expenses as well as strengthen the balance sheet - it even says so in the press release... "in addition, certain persons, including service providers, have agreed to be paid amounts owing to them by Origin House in Common Shares".
What should have tipped us off? The $46 million raised by Cresco should have been the initial indicator that the deal was going to change; suddenly a massive aspect of the Cresco assets/balance sheet changed.
Conclusion:
- The share price divergence did not drive the change in conversion, but is symptomatic of manipulation by Canaccord. It is a correlation, not a causation.
- Lustig bailed out Origin House at the 11th hour to strengthen the balance sheet of the merger and match the $46 million raised by Cresco Labs
- These companies have raised funds in this manner to keep their balance sheets squeaky clean to be an appealing acquisition target once merger is completed.
- Canaccord, being on both sides of the deal, was able to play this disingenuously to their own benefit; artificially inflating cresco and driving down the value of Origin, ensuring they were paid in a significant number of shares issued at a lower price.
- The merger will be completed, guaranteed, now that the balance sheets and assets are "shored up"; a majority of shareholders are insiders to this deal and will vote yes.
I'd say people should start documenting every little thing and bring a class action against Canaccord when the deal is completed. This fund raising was inevitable for this to survive, but the manipulation by Canaccord to benefit from it is inexcusable.
I didn't go silent. I just woke up.
Last night had a long call with other investors and we were talking about financial issues origin could face in the near term and how they would secure cash; its surprising that this came out this morning. It does solve their money problem!
I'll have to read up on the details further to understand the total implications; I'll stand by my initiative to follow facts and business fundamentals versus the hunches of nobodies and their "crystal balls" on the OTC.
Well...you keep theorizing on what the wizard of oz is up to behind the curtain and let us know what you drum up.
Have they issued another PR? I've only seen the one stating on-or-before November 15th.
They would have to issue something today/tomorrow/thursday for that to take place.
They arent really the type of wait for the last minute, especially with earnings coming around the corner.
My statement was that people would see that brand/advertisement as validation of the deal.
Do i believe this is validation of the deal? No - I do not assume anything of that nature, i'm only commenting on human behavior.
I assume this contributed to the rally yesterday as people saw this as validation of the deal closing and business as usual.
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20191107005338/en/Cresco-Labs-Launches-California-Advertising-Campaign-Namesake
Well, seeing as how there were never any negotiations in progress to begin with, I see how you could be concerned about misinformation.
"Closing Terms and Conditions" and "Mutually Agreeable" is boilerplate verbiage for "we're meshing two giant companies together and trying to cross our T's and dot our I's".
Ok, we are on the same page, just using different words.
What I was saying was that the ratio between the stocks would not drive a change in the conversion that was agreed on.
Yes, I agree what took place was part of the short action and this should return to something near the conversion, however if it didnt, that would not result in a delay of the closing of the deal.
I just...dont understand this logic.
The chart and share prices are completely independent of the conversion ratio. They dictate nothing. The conversion was set based on unadulterated trading using a 30 DWMA because of the volatility that occurs between announcement of M&A and the actual share conversion.
If the deal is completed, the shares convert.
Investor relations emailed me last friday saying Nov 15th is still the date.
If there is a discrepancy and the change of close was not disclosed to us and people are trading on it because it is factual, its considered securities fraud.
And November is considered "by the end of the year". It's also considered "the end of the year" for some people since it falls in the latter half of the quarter. It's semantics. All that matters is what was PRd.
...wut?
your opinion is that based on technical analysis the conversion and close will be delayed to december?
did i read that right?
Shorts walking it down. As i said in a reply to your previous post, here's the evidence.
https://www.otcshortreport.com/company/ORHOF
Compare it to the daily activity.
That's why its an acquisition and not a merger.
You might want to tell Cresco that Lustig is telling the world he's on their BOD when he's not, or to update their website.
On a more serious note, I'm aware its not on the site. I'm assuming this is because the transaction is not complete, so he is probably in an advisory role.
Marc Lustig: "I’m joining the Board of Cresco. I’m going to be on the senior management team, and you know, obviously we announced this transaction this morning..."
Also, if you read the shareholder information circular filing on SEDAR it outlines how closely Charlie & CO and Lustig were working to make this happen, and their interest in the future of the business. I'm only saying this to add credence to my "advisory role" comment.
https://midasletter.com/2019/04/origin-house-cnsxoh-ceo-record-breaking-combination-cresco-labs-inc-cnsxcl/
Look at this chart (scroll down on destination site) and compare to stock price.
https://www.otcshortreport.com/company/ORHOF
Definitely interesting. Charlie talked, in the recent conference, about the social equity requirements for licensing in many markets. Competition is good as well.
Yeah the shorts are real twats. I do think the squeeze will be entertaining!
I'm not sure. I think as we get closer we will see different movement. There has been so much irrational trading as of late; the expiration of the DOJ waiting period, for example, should have caused this to rally!
A few factors:
- There are tons of opportunities out there. Right now we are in earnings season for other stocks; investors are probably finding good risk/reward opportunities there...
- This whole year has been fn uncertain with trade wars and regulatory stuff. Its been a nightmare to speculate and wore people out.
- The whole cannabis industry has a cloud hanging over it, especially due to the performance of the Canadian companies. Not many people are willing to take the time to learn of the differences between the two markets, and not many people understand business strategy. I'll stand by my belief that Cresco management team operates at different level than the other cannabis companies out there; they are a diamond in the rough.
- There is a stigma to OTC stocks that doesnt help anyone at all.
- Big investment firms, i suppose, are shying away from this until federal legalization passes.
- Someone mentioned tax losses; that is likely as well.
- In my case, i literally have no more money to buy any more shares!
I think the biggest problem for the shareprice is the number of shareholders that aren't willing to do DD, and the huge pool of misinformation and speculation surrounding this based on lies/assumptions that are unfounded. I am not saying there is not any risk, i'm just saying that there is a flood of bullshit blog posts made by "financial advisors" that are comparing this to other deals with no similarities. Ultimately, I think that is why the shareprice is so low - many people dont have the time or confidence to be comfortable in the sea of uncertainty and misinformation; many individuals that sold, or are interested in buying, likely believe they can buy in immediately after the deal clears and still be entering this growth stock at the ground floor.
Also, this is fucking exhausting. People eventually just step to the sidelines and say "fuck this, i'll wait til the smoke clears, there's still TONS of upside".
I claim nothing, i just share facts. In this case, it wasn't really in front of our faces.
"Effective August 28th, Marc Lustig has stepped down from the Planet 13 Board of Directors. In combination with the pending acquisition of CannaRoyalty Corp. dba Origin House by Cresco Labs Inc., Mr. Lustig will be focusing on his responsibilities as both a member of the senior management team of Cresco Labs, as well as its Board of Directors."
https://www.newcannabisventures.com/planet-13-nevada-cannabis-sales-grow-275-to-16-5-million-in-second-quarter/
Per what data.
What is a quiet period?
Deal closes by Nov. 15. Unless a material change takes place,
there's nothing to comment on.
Wanted to chime in on some points - I havent been active in a long time. I also shared this on ORHOF.
- I spent a lot of time researching M&A and specifically how this is playing out versus others. The Curaleaf renegotiation with Secret really scared people; the problem is, that was a public company buying a privately held company, and an entirely different deal. Also, they cited "market changes" (i think) as a reason for their renegotiation. That is a BS "catch all" term - it could be "we didnt manage our money right and things slowed down..." (technically that is a market change/headwind). To base anything about ORHOF/CRLBF on this deal is fundamentally wrong.
- Renegotiation of the terms of this deal would be considered a material change and require disclosure and a revote. As a shareholder that voted on the initial deal, and added since then, I am adding on the terms of that deal. Should the deal change and i vote against it, I am entitled to be made whole. Any type of restructuring would really open up ORHOF/CRLBF to a shitload of lawsuits and delay the deal significantly.
- The pricing and structure of the conversion was based on the 30 day weighted moving average. M&A always brings shareprice volatility due to the uncertainty and fickle investors. Combine that with the low volume and sector road-bumps, and it really makes sense how we are at this price. DO NOT quote me on this, and i've searched for the audio of the call but cant find it, but i seem to remember someone making a comment on the call that "the next few months will be a very bumpy road" back in April.
- This M&A is critical to the strategy of both companies. To cost of opening themselves up to the legal problems, lack of shareholder trust, potential funding issues, missed market penetration, missed strategic advantages, and OVERALL, missing out on being the biggest MSO in the USA and obtaining a FIRST MOVER POSITION would far outweigh the benefits of renegotiating anything.
- For what its worth, I work at a FF500 company that has people that do M&A every day; last week I laid this all out in front of a few people over coffee to understand the likelyhood of ANY hiccup. The outcome of the discussion was, considering the actual financial strengths of each company, the fact that the shareprice does not reflect the company and asset value, and short action, it would be extremely unlikely that anything change. Following this conversation I sold my 2200 CRLBF at 6.60 and am flipping into my ORHOF pile of shares.
- The term "Mutually Agreeable", that shorts grabbed onto, is boilerplate legal jargon. HOWEVER, it does mean, exactly, what it says. The initial offer was accepted long ago, and now they are ironing out the finer details and signing off on them. This is just like buying a house (a very expensive house). You make the initial offer, you go thru inspections and review, you then sign paperwork. The paperwork and T&C is way more technical and way more involved. It can include the negotiation of severance packages, bonuses, facility leasing/title transfers, etc.
- These are large companies; ignore their shareprice and consider the complexity of the merger. This is not something that gets knocked out over night. Additionally, consider what is ahead for Cresco + Origin. As they continue to deliver on things that other companies have been unsuccessful at, it creates a reputation of transparency and credibility.
- Did anyone notice that the footer for CRLBF in their PRs and news (aka the About Cresco section) now reflects verbiage from the Origin House footer? They reference the "Cresco house of brands" and cite they are a consumer packaged goods company...these are characteristics of ORHOF.
- ORHOF/Marc have been sitting on the board of Cresco for months now; Marc has stepped down from his position at Planet 13 as well. Why would he do any of this if this was not closing? (or at risk?)
- IR at both companies have strict guidelines as to what they can disclose. That being said, the date has not changed. ANY change would be in a PR.
- There was a publication by Barrons that cited Canaccord telling investors that the deal will "likely close, with a tweak". While the author is credible, I still can only find this comment to be hear-say. Considering the short volume during those days, while the author was doing his best, that comment could have been placed with the intent of being spread. If that were a credible action taking place (a "tweak"), it would be considered a material event, and that leak would open CRLBF/ORHOF to significant lawsuits if it were credible and 2 weeks passed before notifying shareholders and/or clarifying on it. There is no such thing as a fucking "tweak".
- Lots of posts i see talking about how Crlbf should issue a PR "to raise the price" and "fix the bleeding". WHY THE FUCK would they do that!?!?? They have other shit to worry about! Issuing a PR to stifle shareholders that cannot do any reasonable DD, and sell on fear, is a waste of money. The price has been driven down (by shorts) to the point where buying back in is a "win" for everyone, and there will be incredible chasing etc. Shareprice is not a concern for anyone on the inside, and it should not be a concern for us either.
In closing, I re-listened to all the calls and content over the past few weeks and I have no doubt this will close. I encourage everyone that has any doubts to do the same. The misinformation and lies that have poured out are all based on speculation and are unfounded. I have yet to have a short provide me any convincing material to show that this is headed anywhere else other than to closing.
I've done close to 80 hrs of DD on this merger; because of my confidence in it, based on the research i've done, i have sunk enough into ORHOF and Cresco that i'll be on the news if this hits the fan.
Know what you own. I do.
Anytime. I have been burned so bad by not doing DD that i've burned the candle at both ends, had my friend who is also invested heavily do DD as well (we vet each other), and taken our DD to his father who is a CFO, before buying any of this.
Far too much bullshit out there scaring people out of this deal.
Wanted to chime in on some points - I havent been active in a long time.
- I spent a lot of time researching M&A and specifically how this is playing out versus others. The Curaleaf renegotiation with Secret really scared people; the problem is, that was a public company buying a privately held company, and an entirely different deal. Also, they cited "market changes" (i think) as a reason for their renegotiation. That is a BS "catch all" term - it could be "we didnt manage our money right and things slowed down..." (technically that is a market change/headwind). To base anything about ORHOF/CRLBF on this deal is fundamentally wrong.
- Renegotiation of the terms of this deal would be considered a material change and require disclosure and a revote. As a shareholder that voted on the initial deal, and added since then, I am adding on the terms of that deal. Should the deal change and i vote against it, I am entitled to be made whole. Any type of restructuring would really open up ORHOF/CRLBF to a shitload of lawsuits and delay the deal significantly.
- The pricing and structure of the conversion was based on the 30 day weighted moving average. M&A always brings shareprice volatility due to the uncertainty and fickle investors. Combine that with the low volume and sector road-bumps, and it really makes sense how we are at this price. DO NOT quote me on this, and i've searched for the audio of the call but cant find it, but i seem to remember someone making a comment on the call that "the next few months will be a very bumpy road" back in April.
- This M&A is critical to the strategy of both companies. To cost of opening themselves up to the legal problems, lack of shareholder trust, potential funding issues, missed market penetration, missed strategic advantages, and OVERALL, missing out on being the biggest MSO in the USA and obtaining a FIRST MOVER POSITION would far outweigh the benefits of renegotiating anything.
- For what its worth, I work at a FF500 company that has people that do M&A every day; last week I laid this all out in front of a few people over coffee to understand the likelyhood of ANY hiccup. The outcome of the discussion was, considering the actual financial strengths of each company, the fact that the shareprice does not reflect the company and asset value, and short action, it would be extremely unlikely that anything change. Following this conversation I sold my 2200 CRLBF at 6.60 and am flipping into my ORHOF pile of shares.
- The term "Mutually Agreeable", that shorts grabbed onto, is boilerplate legal jargon. HOWEVER, it does mean, exactly, what it says. The initial offer was accepted long ago, and now they are ironing out the finer details and signing off on them. This is just like buying a house (a very expensive house). You make the initial offer, you go thru inspections and review, you then sign paperwork. The paperwork and T&C is way more technical and way more involved. It can include the negotiation of severance packages, bonuses, facility leasing/title transfers, etc.
- These are large companies; ignore their shareprice and consider the complexity of the merger. This is not something that gets knocked out over night. Additionally, consider what is ahead for Cresco + Origin. As they continue to deliver on things that other companies have been unsuccessful at, it creates a reputation of transparency and credibility.
- Did anyone notice that the footer for CRLBF in their PRs and news (aka the About Cresco section) now reflects verbiage from the Origin House footer? They reference the "Cresco house of brands" and cite they are a consumer packaged goods company...these are characteristics of ORHOF.
- ORHOF/Marc have been sitting on the board of Cresco for months now; Marc has stepped down from his position at Planet 13 as well. Why would he do any of this if this was not closing? (or at risk?)
- IR at both companies have strict guidelines as to what they can disclose. That being said, the date has not changed. ANY change would be in a PR.
- There was a publication by Barrons that cited Canaccord telling investors that the deal will "likely close, with a tweak". While the author is credible, I still can only find this comment to be hear-say. Considering the short volume during those days, while the author was doing his best, that comment could have been placed with the intent of being spread. If that were a credible action taking place (a "tweak"), it would be considered a material event, and that leak would open CRLBF/ORHOF to significant lawsuits if it were credible and 2 weeks passed before notifying shareholders and/or clarifying on it.
- Lots of posts i see talking about how Crlbf should issue a PR "to raise the price" and "fix the bleeding". WHY THE FUCK would they do that!?!?? They have other shit to worry about! Issuing a PR to stifle shareholders that cannot do any reasonable DD, and sell on fear, is a waste of money. The price has been driven down (by shorts) to the point where buying back in is a "win" for everyone, and there will be incredible chasing etc. Shareprice is not a concern for anyone on the inside, and it should not be a concern for us either.
In closing, I re-listened to all the calls and content over the past few weeks and I have no doubt this will close. I encourage everyone that has any doubts to do the same. The misinformation and lies that have poured out are all based on speculation and are unfounded. I have yet to have a short provide me any convincing material to show that this is headed anywhere else other than to closing.
I've done close to 80 hrs of DD on this merger; because of my confidence in it, based on the research i've done, i have sunk enough into ORHOF and Cresco that i'll be on the news if this hits the fan.
Know what you own. I do.
Nice conspiracy theory George Costanza.
I do not think Kroger stock relies on CV Science products as a financial crutch, nor do I think people only go to Kroger for CBD oil.
MAYBE I"M WRONG.
Nice try though. Correlation does not always equal causation - in either direction - in this case.
3 factors dragging origin down
People panicking because we passed 30 days from the 2nd request, not understanding the timing laid out with how requests work. Also overall impatience, not thinking long term.
People freaking out in the sector from CannTrust ordeal.
Overall markets down.
All your statements are accurate, but they are clearly biased.
Lots of hypotheticals thrown out there Mr. VD...here's another: "Why do you think they are bringing in Deloitte accountants to manage their books?"
Maybe it's because, as they've grown, they realize the need for better cash flow and performance measures to be handled in a way that aligns with the industry, for internal use operationally as well as for financial reporting purposes.
I was talking to my bro, he brought me to CVSI; this is his quote - I couldn't have said it better.
We spend hours pouring over our investments and we keep coming back to CVSI and Origin and throwing more at it.
I recommend anyone on yahoo to follow "Ru"; his analysis and DD is excellent. A good blend of technical trader and investor depending on the stock.
"I would advise everyone that is begging for news to research what is already available.
Go to CV Sciences website. Review the Investor Presentation.
Review news from the last 30 days.
Review results of the shareholder vote.
Review their projections.
If your goal is to make a quick buck this week, then you have no business here. If you do all of the above and understand math, you will find this to be an excellent entry point in a cash flow positive company that is fully audited and has a leading market share in their industry with extensive data to back up their business."
Know what you own.
Canopy is a house of cards ready to crumble. Its like they have no business plan at all, unless their business plan is to try and do everything and "hope it all works out". They have no clear vision, niche, business model. They just have debt and acquisitions.
That's fine and all, until hype dries up and shareholders start to want to see performance.
They can say what they want, and have these pie in the sky plans, but in the end its the bottom line that counts. Without stellar performance over the next few quarters they are going to be a complete shit-show.
Their "first moved position" is the only reason their shareprice is where it is.
I doubt these people have conducted any financial due diligence. What a joke.
EXACTLY!
Everytime I hear someone question the safety of CBD/Cannabis, and the FDA, I always say "They let the Opiod Crisis Happen".
Additionally, the amount of CBD that is needed to harm the liver is ABSURD (per the data in the study). "Honey, i need my evening CBD...get the funnel and the jar....no, thats motor oil, the bigger one next to it!"
Tylonel/acetaminophen is BRUTAL on the liver, and it only takes a few pills to reach toxicity...
People ("journalists") need perspective. That writing/research was remedial at best in the forbes article i read.
I love hearing the input from the "older gents" of the CBD community. I'm 33; I am working on getting some +CBD for my parents (early 70s).
Dad has overworked himself for years, brilliant man with a worn out mind...he needs to chill.
Mom needs melatonin and gets anxious often...
I use it as well, 1 TBS daily. I sleep GREAT and need no sleep aides (i'm under a lot of stress currently).
Its really basic.
"KNOW what you own."
I know what I own!
When I look through the financials, their presentations, and ANYTHING i can dig up on CVSI, it all points North.
Time and external factors are the only thing holding this back; patience pays off.
Why (or HOW?) would the appointment of a D&T auditor raise share price? OR dilute it?
I'm not sure if you understand how publicly traded companies...or companies in general...operate.
Present evidence to support your claims.
Thank you for the comic relief.
FYI - OTC Pump-And-Dumps dont employ Deloitte & Touche accountants to oversee their books.
Sorry for the reality check. Just a fact.
https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2019/04/15/1804279/0/en/CV-Sciences-Inc-Appoints-Deloitte-Touche-LLP-as-Auditor.html
No. It's a press release.