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I'll never buy this stock again. After getting burned in August last year shortly after the RS, (it collapsed from $3.25 to $1.09) and now that they will stop reporting to the SEC, I'm done. You can't trust them.
However if you want to continue buying and selling NBG, I would recommend you get a Fidelity account and buy them on the Athens stock exchange instead of otc in America. You can trade them on Fidelity for $4.95. The ticker symbol is ETE:GR.
National Bank of Greece drops US obligations
March 20th, 2019 10:19 GMT
by Gary Dixon
Shipping lender National Bank of Greece (NBG) is scrapping its obligation to report to the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC).
It said it was filing Form 15F to immediately halt requirements.
"After 90 days, if the SEC does not object, the suspension becomes a permanent termination of SEC reporting obligations," it added.
"Until the termination of registration becomes effective, NBG will continue to comply fully with all other requirements applicable to foreign private issuers registered under the Exchange Act."
NBG said that in 2017 it had resolved to voluntarily terminate the amended and restated deposit agreement from 1998 with The Bank of New York Mellon, as holder of its American Depositary Receipts (ADRs) that represent one NBG share each.
Following the termination of NBG’s ADR programme last March, the underlying ordinary shares of NBG continue to trade on the Athens Exchange.
"The board of directors of NBG weighed the benefits of maintaining the ADR programme against the associated costs and risks and determined that terminating the ADR programme is in the best interest of NBG due to the limited size of the ADR programme, the costs associated with such programme and NBG’s reporting, filing and compliance obligations under the Exchange Act," it said.
The bank is currently listed on the Athens Stock Exchange as ETE:GR. From 1999 to 2015 it was listed on the New York Stock Exchange as ADR NBG.
When it became an over the counter pink security, it then became listed as ADR NBGGY and NBGIF. NBGGY was cancelled in 2018, leaving NBGIF as the sole ADR to trade over the counter in the States.
The ADR for this bank is NBGIF
When I sold on Monday it hurt. But now that I see how much more its fallen since I sold, I'm glad I did. Greece is simply not investable right now.
I'm going to stay up tonight to see how it trades in Athens. I'll wait. I really do not want to sell. But if ETE:GR breaks the $2.00 mark, I don't think there will be much support until it reaches $1.89. I don't want to be around for those kind of losses. Hoping for the best, preparing for the worst. Good luck to you too!
Nick it could be for any number of reasons. I understand the banking sector in Greece has been down all week. I would guess there are people short selling this stock too. They want to drive it back to .25. It may be time to sell. I think ETE:GR is going to break below $2.00 and that's where I'm invested, ETE:GR. NBGIF is $2.43. I can't afford the losses anymore. I'll buy again if things look as if they are improving.
I was thinking, the people who bought National Bank of Greece before 2015 got hit with 2 reverse splits. They got totally wiped out. I can't lose everything here.
I'm going to head over to GLUU and park my money there for a while. I saw them back when they were at $3.00 a share but I went with NBGGY instead. Now they are $7.00 and change. Also maybe put some cash in APPS. I also spotted them at .50, now they are $1.32 Good luck to you. I'll keep this on the radar for when times are better in Greece.
Earnings already came out actually. The link is below. It would have been cheaper to dollar cost average back when it was .25 cent. I'll add more now that the RS is over. It's far more expensive now to do so however. Also Greece is still in a recession. So be cautious.
https://www.streetinsider.com/SEC+Filings/Form+6-K+NATIONAL+BANK+OF+GREECE+For%3A+Aug+31/14568347.html
https://www.reuters.com/article/nbg-results/update-1-greek-bank-nbg-swings-to-loss-in-q2-on-early-retirement-costs-idUSL8N1VM50V
That's fine. The value of your portfolio hasn't changed. You made it through the storm. If you believe that Greece will continue to recover, then buy more and continue to hold for a few years. This is a long term investment.
So far NBGIF has held up. After the RS it opened at $3.00 and thus far is trading higher. I'm cautiously optimistic. ETE:GR appears to be trading again in line with NBGIF.
My Fidelity account just now settled back to normal after the RS and reflects the correct value. Next week should be interesting. I still have not seen the earnings report. So you don't have any shares as of right now?
https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/ETE:GA
I survived the reverse split. I have a few thousand shares left. Lets see what happens.
Hey Einstein? A delisted stock can still split. And before you belittle anyone, get your own facts straight. The ADR NBGGY had already left Nasdaq long ago, but it was just cancelled recently. However it still trades in Greece under ticker symbol ETE:GR. It also trades in America under NBGIF.
I just saw that and was about to post it. So now we will see. If it opens at 3 Euros, I pray that it does not sink. I just read an article that said the European Central Bank decided that Greece was "not eligible" to benefit from the ECB's bond purchase after the bail out ends in August. Anyway, this is it.... Now we will really see what is what.
3 Euro's equals $3.49.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/no-extra-ecb-help-for-greece-after-bailout-ends-draghi/article/528037
yeah you're welcome. It appears that they plan on diluting the current share holders further. A dilution and a reverse split. I imagine, like Hmny, they want to issues more shares to raise money, then do a reverse split to raise the stock price. It's not good news for current shareholders if that's the case.
https://www.streetinsider.com/SEC+Filings/Form+6-K+NATIONAL+BANK+OF+GREECE+For%3A+Jul+23/14423152.html
Well last year I emailed the Bank of Greece and asked them about doing a share buy back. I was told that it would not be possible because the bank is being subsidized via the bail out. So it would be illegal for the bank to use tax payer money in order to buy it's own shares.
More than likely they will do a reverse split. What happens from there is anyone's guess. The bank is improving and if the RS puts the share price high enough maybe more people will be willing to take a chance and buy it. The flip side is that it could RS and go higher but if economic conditions don't continue to improve for the country as a whole and the bank then the stock will just come right back down again.
I remember all those original people like KMBSOUTH use to swear up and down that there would be no reverse split. Now here we are facing one. The lesson: don't listen to people on the internet. They don't know anymore than you do.
If you believe in Greece and the bank, you could buy as many shares as you can afford now so that when they do RS you'll survive it. Or just wait and buy afterwards. That's basically the only two choices outside of getting out altogether
Why is an increase in capital stock on a company's balance sheet a bad sign for stockholders? By J.B. Maverick
Share
A:
An increase in the total of capital stock showing on a company's balance sheet is bad for investors, because it represents the issuance of additional stock shares, which dilute the ownership value of investors' existing shares. However, the increase in capital stock may, in the long run, benefit investors in the form of increased return on equity through capital gains, an increase in dividend payouts or both.
Capital stock is the total amount of stock, both common and preferred, that a company has the authorization to issue. This amount is usually initially stated in the company charter. However, the company commonly has the right to increase the amount of stock authorized for issuance through approval by its board of directors. Along with the right to buy back existing shares from stockholders, a company also has the right to issue more shares for sale.
Increases in the total capital stock negatively impact existing shareholders since they result in dilution. An increase in the total number of stock shares means that each existing share represents a smaller percentage of ownership. As the company's earnings are divided by the new, larger number of shares to determine the company's earnings per share (EPS), the company's EPS figure will drop.
However, increases in capital stock can ultimately be beneficial for investors. The increase in capital for the company raised by selling additional shares of stock can finance additional company growth. If the company invests the additional capital successfully, then the ultimate gains in stock price and dividend payouts realized by investors may be more than sufficient to compensate for the dilution of their shares.
It is a good sign if a company can issue a significant amount of additional stock without seeing a significant drop in share price .
Investors and analysts are wary if a company continually initiates additional stock share offerings, as this often indicates that the company is having difficulty maintaining financial solvency with current revenues and is in constant need of additional financing.
Read more: Why is an increase in capital stock on a company's balance sheet a bad sign for stockholders? | Investopedia https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/050415/why-increase-capital-stock-companys-balance-sheet-bad-sign-stockholders.asp#ixzz5M66f9Fj3
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Jovo, I did not see in the press release what kind of split it is. Where did you see that it's a 1 for 4 reverse split?
Odds are they will vote to reverse split at the meeting.
Thank you for posting this.
I really don't know. They have 9 billion shares outstanding. I guess it's possible. The previous splits were 1 for 5 in 2011 and 1 for 10 in 2013. Then they did a 1 for 15 in 2015. I'm considering dumping my shares and using the tremendous loss as a tax right off. I'll admit, I don't know what to do. Despite the return to bond markets and the rating agency upgrades, the pressure has still been downward and I don't know why.
You know what Nick? Despite the small, gradual improvements happening in Greece, I'm beginning to think the National Bank of Greece is still not an Investible asset, or any Greek Bank for that matter. Many stories I've read over the year have indicated that the Greek economy will not begin to recover fully enough until the year 2060. That's how badly the economy is damaged.
Your grand kids may be the ones who benefit from your investment. Half the loans or 50% of the banks asses are Non nonperforming loans. Then all that bail out money Greece owes Germany still has to be paid back with interest at some point. Greece will have enormous amounts of debt for years and years to come.
Hey Nick! Good to see you. Are you still holding?
CEO of Greece’s second largest bank steps down
I knew the failure of NBG not being able to sell National Insurance and Banca Romaneasca would have an effect. This explains the recent slide over the past two days.
https://www.ft.com/content/905170fe-4fc0-11e8-9471-a083af05aea7
What was the difference between NBGGY and NBGIF?
Me too. I'm making a lot of money now. I bought heavy at .22 .24 and last night. But I'm holding for the long term. Lets see what happens. Good luck/job Nick. BTW are you NBGIF or ETE:GR?
It may move lower. They are having trouble closing a few deals.
https://bbj.hu/finance/otp-cancels-contract-to-buy-romanian-bank_148263
I don't necessarily think it's a bad investment. Obviously buying NBGGY was a bad investment because they cancelled the ADR. But who could have predicted that?
I bought ETE:GR instead of NBGIF because NBGIF is OTC. After that last experience I just decided to stay away from OTC stocks. Because ETE:GR is still traded on the Athens exchange, I'm willing to risk buying it as a penny stock. This is the last penny stock I will buy.
Greece is experiencing the same thing America went through in 2007/2008 with subprime mortgages. The difference is that the American economy was able to rebound much quicker than Greece.
I think you just have to be very patient and hold ETE:GR or NBGIF for a long time. I've been buying again at the .24 and .28 levels. you know, dollar cost averaging. The tangible book valuable is at least 0.72.
Honestly, I don't know. If you read this recent article the writer theorizes it could take 10 years before the NPL's are reduced to acceptable levels. It's hard to know what exactly is going to happen with Greece. The good thing I suppose is that it's on track, however slowly that may be, to improving its economic condition.
http://www.ekathimerini.com/227530/article/ekathimerini/business/greek-banks-need-a-decade-to-cut-npls-to-5-pct
Trying and wanting to remain optimistic. But realistically speaking I wonder how long it could take to get rid of those loans people are not going to pay back. 5, 10, 15 years? Maybe more if the economy remains depressed?
And what happens to the stock during that time. Does the bank maintain it's stock? Because obviously you can't trust them to not delist. They never mention the stock price during the quarterly results. Even though it's in the toilet I wish they would reference it at least.
Germany is not going to give Greece much of a break and Greek banks cannot currently finance a domestic recovery. And unfortunately Greece doesn't "make" anything. Their biggest industry is tourism.
"Sighs" -- At this point it's either sell, or turn off the computer and don't look back for another 1,825 days.
I guess that article helps explain why the stock has sank so low. On top of it they have failed to sell two of their subsidiary's. This stock is a real dog. It honestly is. Maybe it's time to cut my loses and get out.
https://www.reuters.com/article/nbg-romania-sale/greeces-nbg-looking-at-options-on-romanian-unit-after-sale-rejected-idUSL8N1R132D
They can't do a share buy back while receiving bailout money. That would amount to the government giving them money to buy their shares back and that's illegal.
This stock, if it continues trading and does not delist altogether, is probably dead for another 5 to 10 years.
Greece Is Quietly Backsliding on Reform
Greece needs public sector reform and investment, not more debt-fueled consumption.
by Phyllis Papadavid
1
March 13, 2018, 9:30 PM PDT
Fading attractions. Photographer: LOUISA GOULIAMAKI/AFP/Getty Images
Greece's planned August exit from its third European Stability Mechanism bailout, has triggered investor optimism. Its July 2017 bond issuance, the first in three years, was oversubscribed, as were subsequent issuances in February of this year. And yet financial investors should curb their optimism. Greece’s return to the markets, and its economic recovery, are likely to be a bumpy and slow -- especially if it continues to delay key reforms.
Greece's growth appears to have stabilized at a low rate; some take that as a sign of normalization. The problem with this optimism is that it is not clear where the future drivers of growth will come from. Household consumption has recovered somewhat, but at an average 0.65 percent growth in 2017 it remains weak by any measure. And with further tax increases and pension cuts planned, it's hard to see any scope for further acceleration.
No news isn't necessarily good news when it comes to Greece. Quietly, the government has backtracked on important reform efforts such as privatizing key industries, where it continues to miss its targets. In Athens, I drive by the abandoned Ellinikon airport regularly and its state is a sore reminder of how Greece has long failed to capitalize on its assets. A stalled recovery will mean no real boost in revenues to fund investments. Its debt dynamics will also continue to result in a higher cost of financing.
No wonder, then, that the biggest game-changer for Greece, investment spending, is the longest way off. Investment as a share of gross domestic product has more than halved to 11 percent in 2017 from 27 percent in 2007 (which was higher than Germany’s 21 percent and France’s 24 percent). Most of the funds for investment come from the EU at present; an ever-changing tax environment and weakness in domestic demand are, in part, dampening outside investor appetite.
Meanwhile, lack of clarity over debt relief will ultimately mean a costly re-entry into financial markets. Greece’s key borrowing costs will be a function of what kind of debt relief Greece receives from its creditors. The prospects don't look promising. Europe is unlikely to agree to significant debt forgiveness as it will want to ensure that Greece’s over-borrowing does not repeat elsewhere in the euro zone. With a 176 percent debt-to-GDP ratio, and little prospects for growth acceleration or healthy capital inflows, investing in Greece is not for the faint of heart.
The recent effort to reduce Greece’s non-performing loans is a silver lining to this picture. At the Bank of Greece’s recent annual general meeting, there was discussion of forming a "bad bank" to consolidate bad loans. Such a model has worked elsewhere, including in Spain, where despite its losses, Sareb bank was instrumental in reducing bad loans and stabilizing its financial sector. A bad bank in Greece could boost banks’ capacity to provide liquidity through renewed lending, which would be crucial for investment; and particularly for Greece’s small businesses, which account for 90 percent of non-financial employment, according to the European Commission.
Despite progress with its primary fiscal targets and NPLs, rent-seeking and clientelism are still a feature of policymaking in Greece. Recent legislation by the Syriza government, for example, abolishes a 24-month limit to the renewal of short-term state labor contracts in favor of more permanent ones. Ultimately this type of legislation is problematic for growth because a bloated public sector could continue to come at the expense of investments such as in infrastructure, that Greece needs to boost potential growth.
Domestic overregulation and corruption have not been scaled back either. In fact, Greece’s shadow economy, the economic activity that is hidden from authorities in order to avoid tax and bureaucracy, has climbed to 27 percent of its GDP, according to recent estimates by the International Monetary Fund.
Greece is awash in red tape; the sheer quantity of paperwork required to comply with regulations takes up as much as 71 percent of the time and money borne by Greece’s key tourism sector, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. Crucially, this deters much-needed foreign direct investment and means high value-added sectors, such as telecommunications, are starved of inward investment and significant knowledge transfer.
The leader of the New Democracy opposition party, Kyriakos Mitsotakis, has said that he wants to help Greece’s supply side by restructuring NPLs, cutting corporate taxes and reducing bureaucracy for foreign investors. He has also declared that he has few qualms about having a leaner state in favour of boosting investment and jobs. That kind of governing program would be a welcome development. And yet, the prospect of another general election next year, with a new set of policy promises, and continued sclerosis in the public sector, could mean more uncertainty and compromised growth.
To change its fortunes Greece needs to diversify away from debt-fuelled consumption. The recent strength in imports is worrying in this respect. Promoting manufacturing and other high value added sectors should be treated as a matter of urgency. Experience has shown that reigniting bank lending is crucial for this, making Greece’s "bad bank" important. Establishing a one-stop shop for public contracting, licensing, registering and presenting tenders would also clear the way for Greece’s animal spirits.
When Greece exits its bailout in a few months it will have to contend with faltering growth, rebuilding its banking system and invigorating a reform agenda that uproots its public sector for the sake of a more competitive economy, driven by investment and trade rather than government spending and EU handouts. In the absence of this, it will face unfavorable financing conditions and perhaps even worse, another lost decade.
Greek Banks See $6.5 Billion Hit From New Accounting Rules
By Sotiris Nikas
March 13, 2018, 5:45 AM PDT Updated on March 13, 2018, 8:08 AM PDT
Lenders adjust their provisioning rules as IFRS9 approaches
The results of an ECB stress test are expected in early May
Greece’s four largest banks have reported an aggregate burden of 5.25 billion euros ($6.5 billion) to comply with new accounting rules as European stress tests loom.
The introduction of International Finance Reporting Standard 9 is forcing Alpha Bank AE, Eurobank Ergasias SA, National Bank of Greece SA and Piraeus Bank SA to increase their provisions for bad loans. The four banks have reported the effect that IFRS9 will have over the past week, with Piraeus posting an impact of 1.6 billion euros on Tuesday, the largest among the lenders.
Bank shares dropped 1.6 percent in Athens on Tuesday, after the statements announcing the impact of accounting changes.
The lenders are racing to reduce their soured debt pile ahead of a stress test on their balance sheets coordinated by the European Central Bank, which could force them to raise new funds. The IFRS9 impact is not immediate, and is expected to be phased in. Still, the new accounting rules add to the woes of the lenders as they struggle to clean up their balance sheets after the steepest economic recession in the country’s modern history.
Piraeus Bank reported that its non-performing exposures coverage will rise to 52 percent from 47 percent before IFRS9 implementation, and the provisioning level for non-performing loans will reach 82 percent. Alpha Bank said the estimated increase of provisions from the application of new standards is 8.1 percent, while for National Bank of Greece, it’s about 10.7 percent. For Eurobank, NPE provisions rise to 55.5 percent from 50.4 percent.
Greek banks have started sending data to European authorities for the stress test. Results are expected in early May, and the lenders say that no major needs for extra capital will arise, as the macroeconomic scenarios are much more lenient than in previous tests.
“For political economy as well as economic reasons, therefore, we don’t foresee the tests throwing up double digit capital shortfalls,” Eurasia Group analyst Mujtaba Rahman said in a note to clients. “Perhaps something smaller, in the range of €1-2bn.”