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Interesting that Fidelity doesn't allow purchase of ATIS
I purchased a small quantity of ATIS last week; for my TD Ameritrade account.
Fidelity problem looks similar to the problem with GERS stock; TD Ameritrade does not permit normal purchase of GERS; but, will allow sale of GERS.
What is interesting here is that Scottrade did permit purchase of GERS; prior to the sale of Scottrade to TD Ameritrade
I wonder if there is a repeat of the GERS "freeze-out" by Trading Companies on BUY of ATIS.
Is anyone else having trouble with an ATIS BUY ?? A lot of effort was spent to sort out the trading of GERS stock.
You are not alone; I'm buying as well.
Albeit, only spending chum change.
I believe in the Ethanol Market; although it has died down since the initial hype. Replacing internal combustion engines with electric motors is a long haul at best. The additional cost to burn 10% Ethanol vs. Straight Gasoline is insignificant; especially when weighed against the non-$$ advantages. Besides, if you can't afford the fuel; then you shouldn't own the vehicle.
Bio-diesel appears to be making soft inroads; I don't smell or see the characteristic sulfur exhaust anymore. However, it appears the market is saturated with B15.
Enhanced animal feed appears promising.
It would be nice if Attis became current with their books so we could see if they are healthy.
My thoughts only; no opinion
Bringing me up to date with the process;
Thank you, Slash
I have tried explaining several Elementary Fluid Processing Systems to various over-educated Lawyers, Accountants, Politicians, Management, "Non-Fluid" Engineers, Tradesman, etc. For the most part; their eyes glaze over.
Looks like this is the case with the Judges. The Infringers did a good job of confusing the Judges. The Infingers turned the lawsuit into a procedural matter that is easy to understand; made the lawsuit an Issue while ignoring the Facts.
A quote from da Mare [Mayor] Richard J. Daley of Chicago: "Don't confuse the Issue with the Facts"
Regarding Soybeans - to - Plastics
I recall that Soybeans-to-Plastics was tried during WW II. It was first used to make license plates for automobiles; in an effort to divert steel to the war effort.
Unfortunately, dogs took a liking to the license plates and used them as food. This may be an Urban Legend; but, I bought into the story when told to me.
In regards to Plants-to-Polymers; I believe GERS/ATTIS JV have an opportunity to take high-carbon lignin byproduct and turn it into carbon fiber. Lignin is a byproduct of ethanol production from plant matter; specifically trees. Lignin is high in carbon and is used as a low quality fuel. (Tree Carbon is converted to CO2 + Energy *then* Trees consume CO2 to grow).
For the Greenie Weineies:
- Lignin to (CO2 + Energy) is a method to reuse carbon (Carbon Neutral)
- Lignin to Carbon Fiber is Carbon Negative (No Global Warming ??)
nobody12378, Thank you for the response
I knew pursuing a career as an Attorney was not my calling.
Hizzoner, da Mayor Richard J. Daley (of Chicago fame) stated to a reporter; in regards to Police Action during the 1968 Democratic Convention
" ... don't confuse the Issue with the Facts".
Looks like too many of the GERS Whales are confusing the Issue.
What does your son have to say about the possibility of the Infringers filing for their Attorney Fee Costs ??
I believe in the Technology; I'm remaining in GERS
I believe there is a sustainable future in Ethanol as a fuel. I've been a proponent since the late-1970's; with the first Gasohol. However I could not use Gasohol in my 1976 Gremlin. (;-}
Several years ago, I drove a Flex Fuel E85 vehicle. Had trouble finding a fuel source.
I barely broke even with a Bio Diesel processing facility that went bankrupt. I don't miss the sulfurous exhaust fumes from diesel trucks either.
Ethanol is renewable and clean running; by borrowing the carbon from plant material then returning the carbon (via CO2) for the plant to consume.
It would be great if KK would focus on the business side and market the patents / technology. Get the financials up to date. Maybe find some high finance backers -OR- focus on the JV. I'm sure there are a few other patents waiting for commercialization.
Would like to see the plastic patents put to use. Anything coming along with carbon fiber?
Personal Speculation Regarding Settlement with Infringers
My speculation regarding the length of time to come to a conclusion has very little to do with the Court.
I believe the extraordinary length of time has to do about winning the War; not this battle.
The company that has a significant amount of cash is ... VALERO ENERGY
I would wager that the funding for the Infringers is coming from Valero Energy. Valero is the largest producer of Ethanol; significantly larger than Sunoco. Whatever Percentage Back Royalties that is determined from this Infringers Settlement should be applied to Valero Energy in the future.
I previously posted about the sad situation of the current Infringers:
- PEIX 'nuff said about their situation
- Cardinal: no bidders for the auction of their facility
- Other Producers: Farmer's Coops that have no cash and Private Investors with no cash
- Manufacturer's: GEA and Flottweg are probably cooperating with a little stake in the game
- ICM: RIP I'm sure KK has plans for their demise
Anyway, this is a convoluted mess that will take its course. However, the major battle will begin after this Infringement Settlement; when Little Guy Greenshift vs. Deep Pockets Valero Energy.
My Opinion Only; Purely Speculation.
Comments welcomed
Ed U.
Schwab accepts GERS trading when Market is Open
Thank all of you for responding to my email regarding BUY of GERS on Schwab.
I followed nobody...'s advice and called Schwab.
BUY for GERS can be made only when Market is Open. My friend tried to submit a BUY Order in the evening; when the Market was Closed.
Thank all of you for posting a response; your responses prompted me (a novice) to further investigate.
ATIS is NO BUY on Schwab
I know someone who recently tried to BUY ATIS through their Schwab Account. There is a NO BUY: ATIS for Schwab. NOTE: I forgot the exact terminology
I recently did a BUY for ATIS on my TD Ameritrade Account.
NOTE: GERS is also No BUY on Schwab
Was Schwab on the NO BUY List;
If not before; they are now. Someone tried to BUY GERS through their Schwab Account. Schwab will not take BUY; only SELL. NOTE: I forgot the exact terminology
I don't recall if Schwab has been on the No BUY; but, they are now.
NOTES:
- ATIS is on the Schwab No BUY List
- I recently purchased ATIS with my TD Ameritrade Account
Happy Trading
Have faith in Post 49419 NOT SEC Filing
This is an unusual situation.
I trust there are deals being made that cannot be captured in an SEC Filing. To the best of my knowledge; the Infringers are not including the Risk associated with a Settlement in their SEC Filings.
I trust the SEC is aware of the situation and that KK is following the advice of the Attorneys. I have a believe that there will be no additional shenanigans taking place with the Infringers; after all Infringers come to an agreement.
If someone got in this investment based on SEC Filings then they are in for the wrong reason. To the best of my knowledge; there is only one-(1) person obsessed with the lack of SEC Filings. Too bad there isn't a dead horse available to beat.
Thank you for the Healthy Ethanol Industry article
I have faith in the industry. I am a strong believer in the product and understand the need for Ethanol. I purchased a couple tank fulls of gasahol (15% ethanol; like Brazil today) in the late 1970's - early 1980's. It did not agree with my carburetor. Works great with my fuel injector.
Also, E85 Ethanol blend is a better alternative to Electric vehicles.
I trust GERS will take off once the industry gets organized. The industry was over-built with inefficient processing plants. I am counting on the GERS Patents to increase efficiency and quality. Ethanol should become a commodity once they can focus on production.
The Oil for Bio-Diesel is a good use for the "waste stream" I really like the enhanced Cattle Feed, after removing the Oil; that is a great use for the "waste stream".
Fun Fact: Standard Oil was in the business of taking Crude Oil and making Kerosene. Gasoline was a "waste stream" that others would dispose of (into the river). Rockefeller used the gasoline as a fuel to power the generators.
Excellent Posts --361 thru --371 Keep It Up
With the exception of Post --362 there have been GREAT posts here. Keep it going.
My belief is: there will be no windfall when a Settlement or whatever comes through.
- The Infringers have no capital and the assets are under water
- The Ethanol Market is losing money
My trust is that GERS will receive Royalties on future production. My expectation is that KK will exercise some fiduciary responsibility and pay a dividend. However, $0.01 per year on each share will take four-(4) years for me to break even.
Dutch, there may be legal ramifications that would prevent GERS from acquiring assets (physical plants) in lieu of payment as a settlement. However, this would be good for the industry.
I would like GERS to bring order to the Ethanol Fuel Market much in the same way that the Standard Oil Trust brought order to the Oil/Kerosene Market; but that is a stretch.
Harry, please keep up the Due Diligence in regards to the financial capabilities of the Infringers. It is my opinion that this is more important than SEC Filings.
My belief is the Attorneys are bickering to come up with the solution that suits them best.
Don't like to scroll down; then: press "End"
Then press "Page Up" a couple of times
I do not recommend reporting GERS to the FBI.
You might try including this issue in your next reporting to the SEC.
In the meantime, can you recommend a consultant who can provide Web Page assistance to GERS.
Do not include me in the "we" category (;-}
Ehhanol Processing is Under Water
Yes, Attis paid $120MM for an existing Ethanol Processing Facility that is economically viable. The plant has a contract to sell ethanol at a profit. Maybe Attis paid a little over Book Value. This is a good investment for the future.
However, the remainder of the Industry is bogged down with plants that are over built and under funded. There are several partially completed plants that have been abandoned. Many existing plants are struggling to make a profit.
I am sure that existing producers of Ethanol cannot unload their plants at Book Value. Recently Cardinal Ethanol tried to sell their plant; no bidders, so they withdrew.
On-going litigation for Patent Infringement only worsens the situation.
I trust Attis will be the market leader when a settlement is reached with the Infringers.
All Infringers are Struggling see Post #49268
Only three-(3) Infringers are Listed on either NASDAQ or OTC. All three-(3) are doing poorly.
Five-(5) other companies are in the Grey Market. One-(1) of these companies, Cardinal Ethanol, had their plant For Sale; NO BUYERS. Cardinal Ethanol Plant is no longer For Sale.
- Remaining thirteen-(13) companies don't look any better than the Grey Market companies
- Ethanol Plants were over constructed.
- Years ago, I drove past a few partially completed plants that were abandoned.
- Ethanol Market is not profitable; UNLESS PROCESS IS ENHANCED USING GERS TECHNOLOGY.
- GERS Technology takes the Waste Stream; squeezes out all of the Ethanol, squeezes out residual oil for Bio Diesel, the remaining cattle feed is of a superior quality.
- Looks like GERS can make a profit selling top quality cattle feed; with Ethanol and Bio Diesel as a byproduct (;-}
As for a blockbuster settlement; I believe the Attorneys will be disappointed with their cut of the settlement. Not a single deep pocket among the Infringers. If there is a huge settlement; it will be a struggle to collect. I smell bankruptcy for most of the Infringers.
My only hope is that GERS can obtain future Royalties from the few plants that will remain in production; until these plants are squeezed out by Attis.
Snap Shot of Patent Infringement List Companies
I took a fast look into the "Financial Strength" of the twenty-one-(21) Ethanol Producers on the Patent Infringement List.
IMO: Things do not look pretty for a blockbuster settlement. Not many deep pockets.
Two-(2) companies are currently listed on NASDAQ:
- #1 Pacific Ethanol, Inc. (PEIX): 52 week High is 2.90 / Low is 0.69. Indication that PEIX may be delisted unless Price moves above $1.00.
- #12 Aemetis Advanced Fuels Keyes, Inc. (AMTX): 52 week High is 1.73 / Low is 0.42. Currently trading at the Low
One-(1) company is listed on OTC:
- #21 Southwest Iowa Renewable Energy, LLC: 52 week High is 5600.00 / Low is 4700.00. Conflicting information on quantity of stocks: 8000 or 9000 stocks
Five-(5) companies are in the Grey Market
- #3 Adkins Energy, LLC (ADKIL): 52 week High is 515.00 / Low is 450.00 Currently Trading at Low
- #4 ACE Ethanol, LLC (ACEEU): 52 week Quoted at 10,000.00
- #8 Cardinal Ethanol, LLC (CRDE): 52 week High is 9985.00 / Low is 8110.00. Currently Trading at Low
- #9 Little Souix Corn Processors Class 1 (LTUU): 52 week High is 656.00 / Ask is 525.00. Class 2 (LTUX): 52 week High is 656.00 / Recent is 523.00. Class 3 (LTUC): 52 week High is 650 / Ask is 617.00
- #11 Al-Corn Clean Fuel, LLC (ACCLL): 52 week High is 2.70 / Low is 2.70
Remaining thirteen-(13) companies don't look much better
- Couple of Unit Matching Trading
- Few Locally Owned / COOPs
- Couple of Holding Companies
- Some with next to nothing information
This was performed on my lunch hour(s); while cruising the internet. Any additional information is appreciated. Above information is by no means complete.
IMO: Things do not look pretty for a blockbuster settlement. Not many deep pockets. I would guess that Uncle Sam does not want to bankrupt any Farmer COOPs
Any news on Infringing Companies?
I have seen a posting in regards to Cardinal Refiners and their financial difficulties.
I understand Pacific Ethanol (PEIX) is having NASDAQ Listing issues; for too many consecutive days under $1.00.
Talk of Reverse Split or possibly bankruptcy.
This does not bode well for GERS; unless the above companies have War Chest Reserves.
I am a novice in this area. What does it mean for GERS?
Any other Infringers hiding in the weeds; trying to avoid paying their dues?
CBD >>>>> Hemp >>>>> Marijuana >>>>> THC Connection
twa.....:
I see the connection between CBD and THC. However the Industry is spending much effort to separate CBD from THC. It appears the Market Makers are becoming successful with the separation.
I agree with you in regards to Recreational Marijuana >>>>> THC; not good for society. Smoking buds are far more potent than the grass that was smoked in the 1960's-1970's.
Marketing was very successful separating Ethanol from Moonshine >>>>> Distilled Spirits. Alcoholism, Drunk Driving, etc. can be traced back to ethanol.
It is more than a name change. CBD [NO THC] have many benefits.
I am in favor of GERS using their technology to separate CBD Oil from seed; much like separating Corn Oil from seed. The difference is in the CBD vs. THC content in the hybrid plant.
Bully for you, Harry. Go get them.
Better yet, contact CCN and other news media. Expose GERS to Social Media; that will get everbody's attention. Forget frivolous lawsuits; get the masses in the streets to go after these modern day Robber Barons.
Sly Fox Harry will SELL Shares at 9-cents then re-enter at a lower BUY
Haven't you guys figured this out.
The intent for people buying Harry's shares is to get him off this (and ATIS) Posting Boards. Sorry guys, Harry is too sly for that.
Harry, here is the offer:
You SELL all of you GERS Shares at 9-cents. Then exit the GERS Board and exit the ATIS Board; never to return. This is called "Hush Money". Take to profit and do as you see fit with it. However, if you reinvest in GERS or ATIS; then, you do not post on either Board.
Keep your bickering to the PEIX Board.
I will be in a position to purchase some; but, not all of the GERS at 9-cents. Unfortunately, my GERS Shares are tied up in TD America Retirement Accounts. I am preparing to begin a non-retirement account with someone who will trade in GERS. Unfortunately, I have a limited amount of disposable income.
My intent is to clear you from these Boards. I am willing to contribute to hushing you.
Ed U.
Ethanol is an important commodity; GERS Technology is an important method to increase yield from a renewable, sustainable non-carbon feed-stock. Corn consumes CO2; Ethanol borrows the CO2 to make fuel that discharges the CO2; for the corn to consume. Beautiful; isn't it?
A vehicle burning E85 contributes less to the Carbon Footprint than Electric and, of course, Gasoline powered vehicles. So yes, there is a future for Ethanol. I believe U.S. Department level performed the analysis comparing Ethanol to Electric powered vehicles; Dept. of Agriculture, maybe Dept. of Energy performed the analysis against our current methods for generating electricity (includes coal fired and natural gas fired Power Plants)
GERS Technology also extracts Oils for Bio-Diesel Fuel; another sustainable fuel that burrows the oil from Corn, Hemp, seeds, etc.
The resultant Silage is better for cattle; due to reduced Oil and possible Ethanol. Yes, there have been drunk cattle from consuming "over fermented" corn squeezin' from Craft Brewers.
twa... It's good to see that you have jumped on the CBD / Hemp bandwagon. Applications are endless for products from renewable and sustainable waste.
Slash,
Great to see that you became a Moderator for this Board.
I'm looking forward to your informative posts.
Thank you for the update.
Good to see this board getting back on track and trading useful information.
twaflyer: I agree with you
Except, I see no harm in R&D fooling with CBD as an extension of Extracting Oil from other than corn. Those loose nuts in R&D are always looking for new opportunities.
I believe their venture into an alternative to petroleum base plastics is another viable extension of GERS Technology.
My career has revolved around taking "laboratory experiments" and commercializing them into innovative systems. I have seen many "hair-brained" experiments.
Problem with CBD is not the extraction technology or extraction efficiency. The problem is more political than anything else. I would like to see GERS poised to strike when the product becomes acceptable.
Regarding CBD Oil Extraction et. al.
I believe venturing into CBD Oil Extraction is a sound practice as an R&D Project for future business. The problem with CBD Oil is not the production; but, Approval of the product for medicinal purposes; totally out of GERS scope. It would be great if GERS was poised when/if the CBD Market takes off. BTW, all marijuana stocks are languishing. I'm glad I got out turned the profits into GERS.
Alternate Energy is a good analogy to the Marijuana / Hemp / CBD Market. I was actively involved in Alternate Energy R&D and Pilot Plants going back to the mid-1970's. Several multi-million dollar projects / concepts fizzled. However, a few took off, such as:
- LNG (Liquified Natural Gas) non-American in the ~1990's / in America in the 2000's
- Solar Power
- Ethanol as a Sustainable Hydrocarbon Fuel: Brazil in the 1980's (Gasahol is 15% Ethanol)
- Ethanol in America: had to make modifications to vehicles, Government had to mandate, & consumers are forced to accept
- Wind Turbines
- Fracking was a result of many years of figuring out how to extract Natural Gas & Hydrocarbons from shale
GERS getting involved with CBD makes sense; but, make take years to recoup their investment.
BTW, GERS posting regarding CBD on this site has been for approximately one-(1) year. However, GERS posting regarding Hemp as a Material of Construction has been on the site for as long as I can remember (Henry Ford hitting a vehicle with a sledge hammer).
Keep up your posts, Ed U.