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Their books need long cooking time, that's why they are late. But they can cook from almost nothing a tasty looking meal for the unwary investor! Of course at the end of the day the taste is horrible and everything really uneatable, but they sure make it look good for some people!
I don't think TRW will get any loan. This is just a smoke screen.
Trw (and CA)should be able to produce enough profits as is without any loans for siaf shareholders so share holders could receive dividend etc. and stock price would go up.
But there is no straightforward ownership, no straightforward payments, nothing's straight..
"Megaloan" is distraction so share holders will not demand anything from *right now*. CA and trw should produce already nice dividend as is. It doesn't happen.
Lure people into the future, so they forget today.
They should be selling irrelevant branches off. Why they don't?
Let's see how the new owners feel about their investment next year.
My prediction was NOK 6,99 as I don't see the dividend coming.
I don't play siaf mathematics. It's like playing tennis without net with drunken blind referee. Nothing makes sense in the figures.
If you have 340 million assets, just sell something for 20 million, give 50 cents dividend to share holders and keep 10 million in the pocket so you don't need loan all the time.
The bottom line is that they can't sell anything. It's always going to be these games because of the true nature of this operation.
If they can't sell anything, what are the worth?
"5 bank syndicate"? Is this where the auditor came from? Or Agricultural Bank of China? Or Deutsche Bank where they tried to get loan before. Or D&B? These folks don't lie, but you have no first hand info from them. It's just Solly's ramblings. I'm sure we have soon couple of the largest banks from US involved with siaf, say in January when with no dividend when new stories need to be told to keep folks excited.
In the real world, if you need a loan, just get it. If you need to give dividend to share holders, just give it. If you need honest evaluation, just let the market give it to you.
If you have nothing, you need stories. Lots of stories.
Below realistic evaluation of their assets. These guys have so much trouble to get loan and are so desperate to get one too that I don't believe they have 3 million in the bank. Their buildings look like they cost 50 thousand to build they evaluate them at 50 million. Everything looks like it's multiplied at least with 1000 comparing the operation with numbers. 340 thousand in assets sounds about right, 3000 in the bank and so on. This explains why no dividend, why loan, why don't get loan, why PPS, etc. Everything makes sense after that.
Indeed. On paper...
It's not cheering the team, it's not gambling for me. I invest to get wealthier and most important pillars for a good investment are badly crooked here. Trustworthy intelligent management with accurate books and sensible actions is where you start evaluating the company further.
It's Common sense vs. DD with papers released by siaf. Today common sense is down, and people have bought hopes and dreams implied in a "memorandum".
In December there will be new delays, new explanations, old and new hopes and dreams. Dividend? No.
Then I will say it was common sense to see it wil go down that way. And there will be new "facts" that will show it comes later or there was a good reason etc. And then, almost 2/3 of aquafarms have escaped from share holders for free.
This is the problem in essence. Siaf is not worth the past and current profits. There should be true megafarms, full ownership for shareholders, dividends etc. Where's the money? Can't invest on a Bermuda Triangle.
It's not factless and it's not bashing. This is just flying on one announcement that has not really any business in it. Publicity stunt for both. Call it bashing based on no facts, but it's a fact that this will not make siaf a significant lab or retailer. It's smoke screen. All the problems are still there and they are not going away. This bought time for the management. We will get soon back to the normal state of affairs: problem with loan, this and hat delayed, no dividend, new structuring of the company with no benefits for the shareholders etc. You'll see.
Was talking about the newly announced "memorandum" with a green company. I would have been more impressed if siaf had published that they bought and paid 50 units from this company because they need them and have money to pay for them. This deal is hobby farm stuff once again. Requires no buying or selling, no business.
Exactly. Where's the business?
There was 1 before the reverse split, right? I don't think these guys paid any dividend when it was "going well" last couple of years.
Can you explain the reverse split?
This is a company trading supposedly at p/e 0,3. Now, this is not any normal situation, something is terribly off, it doesn't happen with trustworthy companies.
You can say that you KNOW for a FACT that this company has p/e 0,3 but we all know that there's something really fishy there.
I'm saying use common sense.
If I would just look at the numbers I'd go take loan for million dollars... No wait, somebody already did, what happened to him? So, once again, use common sense. If it's too good to be true, it isn't true.
The whole point is the "material".
If they had $30 per share the management would be buying. They are selling.
There's no profits. The thing doesn't move on. They have no cash, aquafarms go mostly under other company, no dividends, there's no constructions worth of the claimed wins happening, there's hardly anything happening. Where are the profits? What have you gotten with the profits as a shareholder? It's just stock value plummeting. The simple answer is that there is no profits. Rest of the stuff happening there makes sense as well after realizing this.
Planning. Where is the exact date, where is the money? They can't put out exact dates or amounts, because there is no money to give.
Reminder, the red flags:
-P/E 0,3, books cooked how much
-History of no dividends with p/e 0,3-2, does this need to have p/e of 0,001 so they can pay something to shareholders? In other words, no matter what they make, share holder gets nothing.
-nothing much to show for the claimed winnings, no new ownership, same aquafarms go around, now share holders own less after all the claimed wins and corporate structure fiddling.
-corporate structure is total mess, joint ventures, cross ownership, you don't know what you own when you own siaf stock and business can be kept behind curtains.
-not believable to be successful in many areas at the same time, cattle, fertilizers, shrimp, fish, flowers, whatever huh? It doesn't work that way.
-Where is all the money?
-Why so difficult the get loans?
-Why they need loans?
-PPS spiral down.
-CEO.
-CEO!
-CEO!!
MegaSpa.
When will siaf take the obvious next step? Change one of the aquafarms into MegaSpa and create value for the shareholders.
Oh and I have never owned siaf and never will.
Yes it is naive, yes there are dozens of warning signs.
People buying more are just in denial, it's a psychological mess you are in already. If you are right about this and have invested already, move on. You invested already. If you are right you win good for you.
If you are wrong as all signs suggest, investing more is just insane. It's just an illusion that you have created. "You are investing you have not lost yet", "you are investing it will help the stock go up", etc, etc.
You need to face the reality that you have lost some with this. Don't go lose everything with this.
Yes i have noticed that trw/siaf can swap species and businesses very easily. 10 species of fish, Fertilizers, prawns and shrimps, flowers and cattle. Totally believable.
Yes they need to share it to even some detail, same as any stock company needs to do if they want investors. Patents protect true innovations, rest are usually more about processes in which case showing the equipment does no harm.
And of course the main problem with siaf is not will tilapia grow profitably indoors or prawns grow at all, but the corporate structure where all productive things can be hidden away from shareholders should there be such.
You need the same equipment in China to do that effectively. The price of tilapia in China and US are too different things. These are big filtration systems that eat electricity under electric lights and possibly electric cooling. This is one of the points that has struck me always very odd. The key is the filtration system, they never speak anything about it.
Because fish/kg is very expensive here, we do not have ocean coast and we have endless freshwater supply. There's not much need for water cooling systems which are more complicated than heating. This is small time thing in Finland too, more at the trial stage I doubt it will become big business.
Typically indoor fisheries establishments are for raising from eggs to juveniles that can be released into the wild.
The CA method of raising fishes/prawns tells nothing. WHat you need to manage in almost closed system is nitrogen. Aerobic fitration for oxidation of NH4 to NO2 and NO3 and NO3 reduction to N gas. I have seen zero dicussion, nothing, nada about this.
People buy into this "method" that there's no info about, no explanation, no publications for sure, no pictures, no equipment shown anywhere, absolutely nothing.
That's an obvious sign that nothing has been invented.
Anyway these things have their limitations, water change is always going to be needed regularly.
If you go to some big sea-world with huge sharks that make huge size turds it can't be managed with any system, it needs manual cleaning and water change, these places are connected to ocean and water taken "free" from the ocean. Salt water is definitely no-no for indoor farming because costs are very high due to need add salt(s) and the ocean fishes are the most valued ones, it's too expensive to raise tilapias indoors no matter how good system you have.
"Mark "It's extremely expensive to farm fish in a tap water system or any closed system for that matter." Why is it then thar such a system is on the stocks in Finland?"
Haha, i checked the "technology" part of it, nothing. They recycle their water. Yeah, who wouldn't. Absolutely nothing about technology It's extremely expensive to farm fish in a tap water system or any closed system for that matter. That's why nobody really does it. I'm not saying anything more because i don't want to educate these guys here who rob people from their savings. But it's funny that actually nobody here knows if it's pumped sea water, tap water or fresh water from other source what this is based on. And the filtering systems nobody has any idea and there's tons of other stuff related, no clue. None of that is never discussed on Siaf pages/or any info they give. All i can say is tat all the technology and science has been invented already long time ago. This is just an half brain idea for investment, company saying the things investors with little knowledge want to hear.
That's the gamblers trap. Either way, you need to divide your bets, this isn't working clearly. I suggest you invest part of it in safe things. It's better to have something than nothing. 40k is a lot of money to many people. Maybe it will be for you too afterwards... Take care of your money.
40k -> 0 is possible if you don't start investing according to some basic rules. Sell some and buy other up going well known stock, no gamble. Keep maybe 25% of SIAF in case it would go to the heights people here promise. You have a "what if?" insurance there. Im sure it won't go up but you will bounce nicely if hat should happen, so you don't need to second guess doing the right thing. In the real world it's extremely rare to get 25x or 40x profits. First things first, you need to stop losing and have sensible structure with your investments.
This goes for "all in" siaf investors.
The CA page has nothing, i don't know what is "10K"?
What CA system? What does it refer to? What it does? It just claims awesome end results, no technique, no variables mentioned what it improves or what it does. Doesn't sound like they have invented anything nor they are mastering anything that has been invented already.
I have a question for Sino Agro believers: what is the most important variable that you need to control in a closed system aquaculture environment?
Follow up question: how does does "CA" system take care of it, on what basic principle(s) it's working?
That's a bit odd, they really don't care about the share price but bother to set up an investor relations company 10 thousand miles from their business location. Customer relations yes, but investor relations? Or are they constantly seeking new investors?
Who is the swede working in this company and what is he doing to promote the company?
Is the answer already within my question and this forum?
https://www.allabolag.se/5569487514/sino-agro-food-sweden-ab
Zerohedge's post #121584 is the best shot on explaining all the weird things around this company that I have seen. Suddenly everything makes sense. I don't know if it's this grim, but matches with the company's actions.
SIAF is for all blue eyed people in Scandinavia. Relatively well known in Finland, there's a thread about it in a local investment forum with 67000 views. It's been getting quiet though, because in that environment you can't flood positive news and speculation when the share price is plummeting. It wouldn't be believable. Here it is possible and the environment is more in control of those promoting it. And investors hub is known in Finland as well.
This explanation is the first one that makes sense!
I never actually invested in this. I have some experience in aquaculture and things were always "off" somehow with this one. The picture you are painting is quite incredible, but explains really - everything! I raised questions like why the locations look so quiet, why the offices are empty, managements unprofessional ramblings, how can so scattered locations be effective, loss of share value, why the numbers and the operations don't seem to match..? This really gives an perspective where everything makes sense. Surely you will be asked soon "facts" and you will be accused of imagining all this, but yes, it does make a lot of sense.
It's all circumstantial evidence. You can keep your nose on the books and disregard it. But how is that working for you? How can it be that your evaluation of the stock worth is 6000% off the current market value?
I don't think you give the appropriate emphasis on the various problems this company has, there are red flags all over. They are huge fundamental problems, not the kind that affect the value -5% or -10%.
I did my research when this first came to my attention. The figures were super high, earnings, but p/e 1, why? Must be a reason for that. After that I started look at this with more critical eye. The facilities and business idea as a whole started to look peculiar, not something that can constitute a stock company with such earnings. Management had very peculiar behavior as well. I came to conclusion that better look at the company as is without the numbers, and I couldn't see how this company with its operations could be profitable. Adding the other negative things seemed likely that investor would lose money with this. Since then, everything that has happened has supported my view on this, not a single thing that would make me second guess. If I had invested(without stop loss), I'd be down close to 50%. And nothing's changed.