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Sportyfelix, can you also ask the broker what security are you getting in addition to cash? Is it Coop shares? Thanks again for the update!
With the Covid lock-downs, one would assume the judge has nothing better to do at home other than finish up the ruling!
Isn't it odd that AG appeal case is still undecided? It's already a month since the court date submissions. I don't recall her other appeals taking this long to get rejected.
Hi sportyfelix, thanks again for updating the board. When you do get a chance to talk to your broker, can you please confirm whether the notification is for the preferred or common escrow markers in your account, and when the expected date of distribution is, and whether the markers will be deleted after (final distribution) or its just the first of more distributions to come?
Thanks again for giving us the first confirmation of hope!
I would be happy to see any small amount leak through to any of the escrow holder -- It will be a big sigh of relief of confirmation for remote bk assets. If any exists, then chances of $40B to $80B is very likely!
Great News! Thank you Sportyfelix! I wouldnt be hung up in the amount yet. Its great news that escrow is starting to see something...this dispells "nothing for escrow" from Brian Rosen.
I hope we see something soon for us American holders!
LOL: I AM "NOT" The "COOP" 8-K' Every Ten Minutes Guy'
AZ, thanks again for staying on the board "babysitting" all of us. I understand you must have heard "Are we there yet?" a thousand times...maybe ten thousand times over the years.
I think the biggest tragedy of this whole fiasco is not the actual illegal taking of Wamu by FDIC but the failure of court to acknowledge the elephant in the room -- the assets protected by remote bankruptcy.
If only the court stated something like "Wait XX years to discover whatever is left in remote bankruptcy" -- our souls would all be at rest.
It's the uncertainty of the wait time that has done the greatest damage to all Wamuers here -- not the actual act of robbery by JPM and FDIC.
Happy New Year to you sir! May 2021 be our last year here on this board.
Either way, I suspect the assets backing the $13B for the class 17 bank bonds are also locked behind remote bankruptcy entities. Maybe that's why Sheila was asking congress to go after WMI assets early on.
Samurai, I think you are rught about the $86B. FDIC cannot legally touch most of these bankruptcy remote assets that are locked up in the SPVs. I think FDIC is in a bind. They owe class 17 $13B but the money to pay it back are locked up in these remote bankruptcy securitized entities. That is one possible reason for all these delaying tactics over the past 8 years to end the bk and FDIC recwivership -- like utilizing bullshit Libor and employee claims lawsuits.
AZ, are you still pretty confident that we might see an 8k in the next 2 weeks regarding the year end distribution? Or do you think they have successfully used Alice Griffin pending appeal as an excuse to drag this out for another year?
Bbanbob, I'm pretty sure the term "national security concerns" was used in the official statement from the company. I clearly recall how strange that statement sounded when we got the disappointing news. That was the year when WMIH stock rallied above $3 earlier in the year ($36 in post split price today). I think Tepper also sold his stake in WMIH after the failed merger news.
Does anyone recall the failed 2016 WMIH merger attempt? Do you recall the official statement? Not allowed due to "National Security Concerns"?? Why would there be national security concerns if all WMIH was a shell company with $6B NOLs?
I truly believe our escrow markers could have been paid out years ago if that 2016 merger was allowed to go through.
Who are they trying to protect with this "national security concerns"?
There must be big money involved for them to use "national security concerns" as an excuse.
How much longer do we need to wait???
Lodas, the 8000 open calls could also be a hedge for the open short position.
Merry Christmas to you sir! I sure hope for a Happy New Year for all of us!
RD, how confident are you still of first payout by EOY?
AZ, arent they cutting it real close to issuing those shares? Is it because of AG appeal hasnt been finalized? Can they just not escrow some shares for the UW?
I dont recall any of the other AG appeal decisions taking this long...do you? If I recall the others got rejected right away.
Also, if large money is due from remote bk assets, wouldn't you want these Goldman Sach boys to be incentivized to go after them. Isn't 1% worth it to make sure those boys goes after 1% of every cent due from remote BK?
My only assurance at this point is that I "supposedly" am in the same boat as the big boys waiting on escrow...riding their coattail... so it makes logical sense to me that we want the UW to have a piece of the pie so that they go after 1% of every crumb of that pie.
Her timing of the suit at the very end of bk closure, the speed at which her previous 2 appeals were denied, and this last appeal somehow taking extra long right when we are supposed to be paid out...really got me suspicious.
Alice Griffin really screwed all of us if her lawsuit ended up costing us 1 to 2 more years of delay. How much is 1 to 2 years of your life worth with escrow money? What is the opportunity cost? Its a lot more than 1%.
How much do you need to escrow? Just 1% for class 19? What if the UW gets moved to class 22? What percentage of class 22 will they be rewarded? Since there is still uncertainty in how much to escrow for UW the trustee can simply choose to further delay and use the uncertainty as an excuse.
I think AG appeal case might hold back distribution this year. I just dont see how the remote bk assets can be released if the UW position in class 19 is in question. Even if the trustee is to withold some funding for the UW....how much will they withold?? just 1% for class 19 or some undetermined percentage for class 22 in case UW gefs kicked down to class 22??
Has there been an update on AG's appeal? Anyone know? TIA
Diamond which $30billion are you referring to. It seems the message yoh are referring to has neen deleted. TIA
Bbanbob, I missed the 1999 holders limit. Are you saying if they take this private, they cant have more than 1999 individual owners? Is it for retaining the NOL's? I thought the only requirement for that is to maintain the original ownership percentage at 2012 level?
AZ, is it possible that FDIC has been coordinating this delay all this time because they need the bk remote assets to pay off class 17? Hence, they and Rosen orchestrated the delay after delay to close the bk so that it allowed the remote bk trusts time to generate enough interest income to be able to pay off class 17 also when they are released after the bk is over.
This would also make sense since Sheila Blair failed to convince Congress to allow her to retroactively go after WMI holding company assets. Since she found out that she is stuck with paying the class 17 WMB bonds but the assets are stuck in remote bk spe's, she did the only thing possible -- cause enough delay in closing the bk so that FDIC can collect enough mobey from remote bk assets when they release to pay off class 17.
I hope we see AG case end today. Is there a deadline for the court to decide on her appeal?
Thank you Cassie. I just wanted to confirm.
Are escrow markers transferable in case of death? Can you will them to anyone?
LG, thanks for your thoughtful response. I agree, nobody here knows exactly the timing of how this will end. I am 100% certain, as are many here, that there is definitely assets outside of what LT has addressed during the bk. I just want to see at least one of those buckets start the distribution before end of 2020. Being that it is already 12/16 today, I am a little worried that this may be further delayed.
With regards to the NOLs. Do you know if Coop has utilized any of it? Is 2020 an absolute deadline for them to issue shares to retain the NOLs and void the "ownership change"?
LG, there is a possibility that the remote BK trusts may not release the assets until all bk related lawsuits have been settled.
I think all of us here agree that if any assets are to return to escrow holders, they will come from remote bk assets...not from LT.
So, AG's lawsuit will affect at least one recipient of such assets...the Underwriters.
So until her case is dismissed, I don't think we will see distributions from remote bk.
I'm also puzzled by the delays. How are the big boys able to benefit off the delays? Were they able to somehow access the underlying value of the escrow markers all these years while retail had to wait. I'm not implying that there were paid out...but were they somehow able to use the markers as collateral to access cheap loans? Maybe they are able to present inside information that allowed them to use the markers as collateral to access loans from the big banks.
The best way to hide a mole is to package them as a "friend".
i.e. Mitch McConnell, Bill Barr, Marcus Junius Brutus
Do you have any theories on purpose of the delays? How are the big boys benefiting from the delays...because retail certainly isn't.
I don't understand why they want to keep delaying.
I have a bad feeling that they might allow AG to continue on with the charade. Why hasn't the denial order been released already?
I just want this to be over. December is coming to a close. Is AG going to be the Grinch that steals our Christmas again?
AZ, I also do believe now that AG may have been a mole to purposely bring up her lawsuit to further delay the closing just like the fake employee claims.
I still dont understand why would the big boys want to delay this further. How is it in their financial interest to delay this further?
You told me before that it is impossible for the big boys to access the remote BK assets as agurantee for cheap loans why retail suffers with nothing. Do you still believe that?
If the big boys have inside information, can they not simply use that information and present their escrow markers as a gurantee for cheap loans all these years? Why retail suffers with "zero value" showing in their account?
12 years is a long time. Some escrow owners have died. Others have aged such that they will not be able to enjoy the windfall except pass it on to their descendents.
Were the big boys able to benefit off the escrow markers all these years while retail had to rot??
Is AG appeal officially dead? Any filing?
TIA
Good morning AZ. Are you familiar with General Growth Properties bk? It happened about a year after Wamu...and maybe their attorneys learned a lesson from WMI bk...because they were able to bring in all their remote bk SPEs under their bk for the purpose of equity benefit...even though the SPEs were solvent. I believe they first replaced most of the directors of the various SPEs shortly before they declared bk so that the directors would agree to have the SPEs pulled in to the parent company bk. The lenders to the SPEs objected in court but lost.
https://www.goodwinlaw.com/publications/2009/08/ggp-ruling-exposes-weaknesses-in-popular-bankruptcy-remote-spe-structures
I have no doubt that WMI has even more remote bk SPEs than GGP. What disgusts me is that Brian Rosen never tried to bring any of them into the bk. He could have observed what was happening with GGP bk in 2009/2010 and he could have tried the same in 2011.
Anyway, good luck to all of us. I really hope we see something in the next few weeks.
12+ years of waiting!! RD, I really hope we sse our windfall soon!
Xoom, have they announced how much those Lehman bonds are getting paid? The article said they should be getting paid today.
This is great news Xoom! Thanks for sharing.
I wonder if hotmeat is currently on lehman board telling everyone, there is no distribution! Its all just a mirage!
Thanks LG. My thoughts are similar in terms of tax concerns. That's why I believe if it doesnt happen by end of this year, I dont know if it will happen anytime soon.
But I dont think a large distribution will happen close to Christmas/New Year time frame as I think most people are already on year end shut down. So I think if it happens, it should happen by the first week of December...just IMO