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Hopefully not longer than end of April. We are seriously in trouble if the panic lasts 2 quarters.
One would think with this huge market panic, the hedgies would be pushing for our escrow payout...We could sure use that escrow cash windfall to take advantage of the market correction!
I wish one of the hedgies would push for distribution NOW!!
LG, I believe it expires on the 28th. I've just reread that document from FDIC that you posted previously. It expires today not tomorrow.
Isnt' POA expiring today for Wells Fargo? Anyone seen a new filing for extending the POA for another year?
LG, are you keeping track of the Wells Fargo POA? Have they renewed the POA for another year?
Any update on that alert sir? Are you still seeing the alert on your account?
I hope you are wrong. If you are right, dont expect to get paid for escrow anytime this year. If David Tepper paid back his investors now, and then shortly thereafter, the escrow markers get paid, he'll have lawsuits in his hands.
If I'm right, we are going to get paid very soon. Possibly before end of the 1st quarter.
Lets hope I'm right for the sake of all of us waiting on this for 11.5 years.
I'm pretty sure he cant do that. Most funds are organized as an LLC. He'll need to divy out based on ownership percentage of whatever is in the fund. How can you divy out a percentage of escrow markers with unknown future value. I think he'll need to waut until its resolved..IMO
David Tepper still hasnt paid his investors back. He said end of January. Its almost end of February... Really hoping its because he cant cash them out until their portion of WMI escrow markers are resolved.
Well if you are right, you get nothing...no one gets anything. Congrats to you for spending countless hours on this board for the last 11.5 years proving that your supposed investment in WMI yielded nothing...You are so smart.
Monica, I am not going to speculate north of $86B. If it happens, icing on the cake. I will be happy with Dr A's $86B conservative estimate. I think $40B is the minimum if the MBS did not perform to spec but I dont think that's the case. DB tried to sue JPM for put back claims and in the end they ended up giving $650M more to JPM...so I think the MBS are performing to spec or even better.
My point earlier to HM was that it was unreasonable to argue the insitutional investors in class 17 and 19 would just simply give up without a fight, for a minimum $20B claim...Or assume that the 95% A rated Wamu portfolio suddenly defaulted to a complete loss and none of the class 17 or 19 institutional investors challenged the default in court...or if it was simply gifted to JPM.
My point being is that no one will accept a $20B claim loss without a fight in court.
HM, the main source of income for WMI was from $9B of gross annual profit margin from its loans. It wasnt from servicing or from other banking operations. So the only way for that income to stop is for the FDIC to give the income rights from those loans to JPM as part of the $1.9B sale or all those loans defaulted. JPM publicly stated that they only purchased the servicing rights. So where did the $9B annual profit margin from those loans go?? Just poof? And non of the institutional bond investors complained?
I Institutional investors are not going to give up on $20B worth of claim without any complaint...Did the $7B of WMI senior creditor claims give up their rights? No, they collected 100% of their claim...even the last creditor claim got 85% of their claim (It would be 100% if it werent for BR making the bk look legit)...
So institutions with plenty of lawyers give up on $20B worth of claim without a fight? Not likely.
Loan assets are protected in remote bankruptcy. Its not if but a matter of when. Hopefully this year but who knows...
HM, if you add up the total liability to class 17 class 19, its at least $20B dollars....all supposedly backed by securitized loans. I guess its possible thay FDIC gifted all of that to JPM but not probable. These are institutional investors, and they would have cried foul if all that was gifted to JPM. $20B is a lot of money to go poof without a fight.
Its not a question of if there are assets in remote bankruptcy. Its a question of when those assets will return. Many here are hoping its now since the bk has closed.
It is reasonable for you to make an argument that we may have to wait a few more years...but its not reasonable to argue that at least $20B backed by securities went poof and all those institutional investors simply ignored it without a fight....That scenario is very unlikely.
Ref, I would think that if Wmih/Coop is to have any significant financial ties with the remote bankruptcy assets, then they would be required to disclose that in their forward looking statement now that the bk is closed. Also, it will be a "tell" whether or not they end up using any of the $5.9B NOLs that they have been sitting on. Why havent they used any of it. Perhaps AZ is right, they are going to loose the NOLs and if so, they will need to be compensated in kind for loosing the NOLs.
Isnt it odd that Coop moved its earnings call up to Feb 25 from its usual March 6 earnings call? Especially when Wells POA expires end of Feb....
Greywolf reduced their position by 26% last quarter. I dont recall them having reduced any position since 2012. Does anyone here recall any reduction in their position in WMIH/Coop since 2012?
These are ex Goldman Sac guys...and probably still have friends in Goldman Sacs..who were also the underwriters. It always gave me confidence in escrow because they bet big and remained big all this time.
Sorry, I wish this was true. Its not FDIC. Its Wells Fargo who will loose their lower of attorney (POA) at the end of February, inless they renew as they have in the last few years. JPM is set to loose their POA in September. However, if Wells does not renew the POA for another year, escrow payout is looking good for this year.
Besy of luck to all of us!
That's interesting...Why is it under JPM press releases??
Boris, JPM did a press release on Coop? Do you have a link for it?
Thanks BB. Is Chad or Doreen incentivized to pushed this to the next phase? As I recall they are both drawing a cushy salary. Playing the devil's advocate here...Why would they not just take this slow and continue collecting their salary?
Who is currently in charge of reorganized WMI?
I had mistakenly thought Coop earnings would be this week. Its most likely on March 6. This waiting is very tedious. I dont think Coop will release an 8k related to the bk closure until earnings... Another month of wait...
Night, its early February. I was just wondering if there are any news of the 90% of funds being returned in early January. There aren't any news on the subject so I'm assuming it hasnt happened yet. Unless someone here is an investor in Appaloosa and can confirm whether the 90% return has ocurred or not...
No news of David Tepper having returned his outside investors money as originally planned for end of January.
Thanks Reiko. My mistake. I thought I saw 2/7 for last year.
Is this your speculation or do you know something? Coop usually holds earnings at the end of January or first week of February in the past.
Odd, Coop still hasnt announced earnings date??
There must be some sort of financial benefit directly to WMIH when the remote bankruptcy assets are released with the closing of bk.
It's just a speculation for me on my part..although AZ seems pretty sure the NOLs are going away.
I guess speculation comes from the fact that NOLs havent been used up to the last quarter. Obviously, Coop is paying a higher tax rate than what the NOLs are valued at on their books. So why not use them??
Also, the market seems to be discounting Coop by at least $1B which is exactly the book value of the NOLs that the company has booked as deferred tax assets on its balance sheet.
So the market also seems to believe the NOLs are worthless or will never be used.
We'll see. It wont be long. Coop will have to address this in the next earnings call if they are loosing it with the closing of the bk.
LG, I'm also really hopeful Coop's earnings next week will shed some light. If WMIH/Coop is to receive any sort of financial benefit from the closing of the bk, they would be required to disclose it in a forward looking statement in the upcoming earnings. I believe the reason we have not heard anything is because they are in a quiet period before the earnings.
I think AZ might be right with regards to the NOLs. Maybe the NOLs might go away. They have been booked as a $1B asset on Coop balance (valued at 18% tax rate)...and yet they havent used any even though Coop tax rate was 22.5% last quarter...why?
Also, the stock price is undervalued by at least $1B based on current book value...so why? Apparently the market has discounted the value of the NOLs to zero. It doesnt believe they will be used.
So we'll see. One way or another I believe we will find out this earnings.
Boris, POA has not "moved up" from Sep to Feb. I believe the POA for JPM is still set to expire Sep 2020. The POA for Wells Fargo was simply extended to expire Feb 2020 last Feb...but they have been doing this 1 year extension at a time every year for Wells for the past few years.
However, if they do not extend the Wells Fargo POA this month, then I believe it bodes well for us....this is finally coming to a close.
Thanks for the update Stocksss. I have a feeling we wont hear about it until Coop earnings. If there's any significant financial benefit to Coop with this, I think they will not announce it until the quiet period ends with the earnings. So hopefully we'll get the earnings next Thursday or Friday.
Stockssss, are you still seeing "This is not the Final Payment" note on your account?
JPM will not "pay extra" for WMB purchase. They will simply return WMI assets that they are holding off balance sheet. If they have to pay extra for WMB purchase, they would have needed to file an 8K or discuss it in their forward projections in their last earnings call this month...since our BK has already closed.
I will be satisfied with their simple return of our assets from the $165B Wamu assets listed off balance sheet on r203.
Its really interesting that Coop hasnt used any of the $5.9B NOLs. Addionally, they are only booking the NOLs at about 18% tax rate. They are recognizing it as a $1B tax deferred asset. Their effective tax rate last quarter was about 22.5%...a higher rate than what they are booking the NOLs at...So why not use the NOLs last quarter?
I think the market is undervaluing Coop as if it doesnt believe the NOLs will ever be used...which makes sense because if it truly recognized the NOLs as a $1B asset, then the current Coop stock price should at least be double at $25.
So is Coop expecting to loose the $5.9B NOLs as AZ has suggested with the closing of the GSA? Hence, they havent used the NOLs in previous quarters when clearly their tax rate is higher than the rate at which the NOLs are booked on their balance sheet?
After escrow payout this year. Then this board will be lucky if it gets 1 post a day. Check out the other boards on iHub for other "non escrow" companies.
What happened to the escrow markers associated with the DEE shares? Do they belong to WMIH? Will Coop directly receive the cash payments to these markers from remote bankruptcy?
No reasons given but if the Wells POA agreement stops extending then we know its work is finished. Since the BK is over, if the Feb 2020 deadline passes with no extension, then we will very likely see the conclusion of our escrow journey this year.
no extension end of Feb = max pain of 10 months of wait time
If the Wells POA does not extend again for a year at the end of this Feb, it bodes well for us...likely, we may see our escrow money before Sep 2020. However, if it does extend again for another year at the end of this Feb, then who knows how much longer the wait will be...
Understood. The JPM POA hasn't changed since 2016 - set to expire Sep 2020. The Wells POA seems to be extended for a year every year at the end of Feb -- at least for the last few years according to the docs you've posted.
So hopefully, the Wells POA does not extend again at the end of this Feb.
LG, I see what you are saying now..but the footnotes indicate POA expiration for Sep2020 on page 38 is for JPM and the Feb 2020 expiration on page 24 is for Wells Fargo.