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"2. No. SCOTUS clearly said that the structure may be the same but there are issues beyond that which may be large enough differences between CFPB/FHFA to merit a look."
LOL, Distinction without the difference.
If FHFA structure is same as CFP, then CFPB ruling applies.
Yes, there are issues beyond that which may be large enough differences between CFPB/FHFA to merit a look. But these issues will not change the application of CFPB ruling.
The new ruling will be in addition to what has been already decided in CFPB ruling.
"1) can cases be withdrawn from supreme Court because both the parties agreed for something?"
When SCOTUS takes cases which involve interpretation of constitution and laws, probably SCOTUS does not care even if both the parties agree and settle. SCOTUS will rule anyway.
"2) If yes, by default won't CFPB rule apply for FHFA also? That it is an independent body and can be dismissed by President"
CFPB ruling applies to all cases. SCOTUS has taken Collin's case to rule on additional issues.
"SCOTUS is wrong."
It makes no difference. What ever SCOTUS says, that is the law.
"The FHFA fails to admit Fannie and Freddie are private shareholder owned companies, somehow they think they have a saying in in who owns the company, while they do have a lot of things they can demand, they can only be the owner of the companies if they buy back the shares that are issued"
It is a ongoing controversy and SCOTUS should resolve it. Either way it should work in favor of shareholder. Currently Gov and Courts conveniently hold FnF as both private and not private so as to help Gov against private parties.
If FnF are "not purely private actors" as per SCOTUS then how can FHFA conservator be private actor. IF SCOTUS rules FHFA conservator as Gov actor then Gov becomes responsible for all lawless acts of FHFA Conservator.
SCOTUS:
"The only remaining example is the Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA), created in 2008 to assume responsibility for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That agency is essentially a companion of the CFPB, established in response to the same financial crisis. See Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008, 122 Stat. 2654. It regulates primarily Government-sponsored enterprises, not purely private actors. And its single-Director structure is a source of ongoing controversy."
"Biden can't fire MC if SCOTUS case is withdrawn due to the summary judgment by Sweeney and/or settlement"
Does not matter who becomes next POTUS even though Biden does not any chance?
SCOTUS has ruled and it is the Constitutional law now.
Executive agencies can not independent and POTUS can fire any one in executive agencies including Federal Reserve.
Even congress can not change this law.
"Federal Housing Finance Agency Director Mark Calabria welcomed this action by FSOC, noting that “as demonstrated by the 2008 financial crisis and again by COVID-19, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac must be well capitalized in order to support the mortgage market during a stressed environment.”"
Calabria is a unabashed hypocrite. Before becoming Director decried lawless conservatorship and NWS robbery. Now even after more than 1.5 years Calabria has done nothing to stop NWS and with his nonstop loose talk he has made it impossible for FnF to raise any capital.
In last 12 years FHFA conservators have robbed FnF to bankrupt them. If FHFA returns the robbed capital then FnF will be capitalized instantly.
Unless SCOTUS prohibits FHFA conservators robbing FnF and also orders FHFA to return the robbed capital along with interest, there is no path for FnF to recapitalize
agree
"what happens to forbearance after Cat man gets neutered by Scotus.
Then we have to sue or this gets fixed for stealing more GSE money as they unwind conservatorship?
"
The one question that needs to be answered is, Can Gov/FHFA impose such public burdens on private companies FnF without compensating FnF?
FnF are private shareholders companies even when under conservatorship. FnF and private investors have been made to pay big price for the forced mafia loans.
Gov/FHFA can not treat private companies like Gov assets.
"Its utterly laughable as well as utterly ridiculous.
There will be a softening due completely to coronavirus, but that is across the board. Once this thing is behind us, there is no reason why we shouldn't have those kinds of numbers again. Maybe higher, as the market is just dying for any good news on the virus front.....when it seems to only provide bad news, currently."
Calabria preaches about free market capitalism all the time and then he wants to burden FnF with forbearance. Are other FIs doing the same?
These conservators are pure hypocrites.
"It's not me saying that FnF are essentially in bankruptcy, it's Calabria. I even provided proof. You might want to go off what he actually says rather than what you think he should say."
Companies go in to bankruptcy not because of capital reserves but because of bad business, no cash flows and no profits.
FnF are generating about $15 to $20B profit every year and projected to be profitable for foreseeble future.
Only people out of their mind will talk about bankruptcy.
"A year ago I would have laughed at the suggestion that Warren buy into the GSEs"
Does not seem politically possible?
Probable WB and his team was the behind the scene players supporting Hank and OB administration in winding down fnF.
"But dollars aside, the case threatens the very existence of the FHFA. If the Supreme Court were going to use the CFPB decision as a template, why did it take this case for review?"
Very valid question.
SCOTUS CFPB ruling was good enough to resolve Collins case by 5C. Under this ruling FHFA can not be independent as an executive agency irrespective of how FHFA is structured.
Probably SCOTUS saw many more problems in HERA and FHFA than CFPB. Every one could see clear lawlessness in HERA/FHFA and how the collusion between three branches of Gov is undermining the foundation of the Constitution. Probably SCOTUS will end the practice of using independent executive agencies to engage in lawlessness and abuse of power without accountability.
"Reverse split isn't needed and serves no purpose. What's needed is Rule of Law. "
100% correct. Reverse split is done for companies that are in decline.
FnF are doing very well even under bureaucratic lawless conservatorship. FnF will do very well under private professional management.
FnF business model is based on very sound financial principles. But for mobster thieves it looks defective because it is difficult to steal from companies using constitutionally valid laws. That is why mobsters created HERA and FHFA to do what can not be done under the normal rule of law.
Once FnF restore dividends PPS will steadily climb. Only possibility of capital restoration is through retained capital. Investor are not foolish to invest 100s of billions of dollars in companies that will be used to provide unlimited liquidity to failing markets during crisis and Gov/FHFA can rob their capitals without any accountability.
Providing unlimited liquidity to failing markets is the job of Gov and not of private shareholder companies. Besides who will invest in companies that have been robbed by the Gov/FHFA during daylight.
With or without reverse split, the only hope is retained capital and there is no slightest hope that private investor will invest.
"Release scenario highly unpopular with short sellers . Highly unlikely as well being new leader in WH from old regime has shown fondness for profits from the USG owned companies.Expect practice to be continued to be used (FNMA) for public welfare interest not greedy vulture investor 2nd home new sports car or speed boat ."
It does not matter who will be elected, even though Trump getting elected seems to be forgone conclusion. All the new found false hope will vanish after the debates.
It is unpatriotic disservice to American people by trying to use people who seems to be clearly in serious mental decline and not up to challenges of the job.
Who are better for America?
1. Greedy short sellers who are undermining the American economy by selling borrowed stock and unlawful naked short selling
2. Honest long investors who invest hard cash in the hope of American economy and American companies doing well.
Any time, clearly America needs Honest long investors than Greedy short sellers.
FHFA is no longer an independent agency after SCOTUS CFPB ruling and FHFA can not hide under 4617(f) and other unconstitutional provisions of HERA. Executive agencies like FHFA can never be independent and be unaccountable.
Expect new lawsuits and revised lawsuits to challenge previous court rulings based SCOTUS CFPB ruling.
"Since the statute is the rationale/foundation for the conservatorship, isn't "weighing in" on the statute essentially reviewing the cship itself?"
Yes, SCOTUS will not choose to rule on the main questions raised without deciding on the validity of the laws and how laws are being interpreted.
"Some people are fundamentally incapable of abstract thinking wink
"
Thanks, Agree 100%.
"shows that you have also misunderstood what "The court also agreed to weigh in on issues relating to the statute under which the FHFA became the conservator." means. It does NOT mean that the Supreme Court is going to review the conservatorships, because the Collins plaintiffs don't challenge those.
"
SCOTUS can rule on any lawless and unconstitutional issues raised in these cases. The main questions raised in the petition depend on determining these issues first.
"Unless Congress intended to change the common law definition of a conservator and allow the POTUS to be a conservator when they drafted HERA, then the sections of HERA that deal with conservator powers and probably receivership powers will necessarily need to be stricken from HERA. That is what my questions are about."
Very valid thoughts.
With CFPB ruling, an executive agency like FHFA can not be independent. This alone would have been sufficient for lower courts to decide all FHFA cases.
Despite clear CFPB ruling, SCOTUS chose to hear further on Collins case. So this is clearly about separation of powers of Gov regulator, private conservator and receiver. And also about 4617(f) that protects executive agency from judicial and Congressional oversight.
It may also be about very broad Governmental powers delegated to supposedly a private conservator.
Clearly HERA is all about a allowing independent executive agency acting like mob outfit controlled by the revolving door bureaucrats. May be SCOTUS wants to prevent such abuses in future.
"With Washington Federal, we never got to see the sealed documents so it is quite possible that some of them actually strengthened the government's case."
O wise man,
Also please reveal to us what is so secret about FHFA conservatorshorship lawlessness.
Why most respected Judge Sweeney is protecting lawless FHFA conservatorship by keeping secret 1000s of documents that would have revealed sordid acts of FHFA conservators?
"All signs point to Executive Order coming as I've predicted for over a year coming out when the time is right in the end game."
It can not be any better now than later. Only about 3 months left.
"IMO, technicalities needed to be wrestled on the way to SCOTUS the same way pawns are pushed in the opening moves of a chess game. Good news today is we're now we'll positioned in the end game with the Government in sui mate"
Gov bureaucrats have clear upper hand when it comes to technicalities.
Judges are super experts in using technicalities to serve their preferred form of justice.
The sordid story of FnF conservatorship is continuing based on technicalities like interpreting words like "may" and "should". In which part of the word a conservator or guardian is allowed to work in the interest of himself at the cost of conservatees.
At some point in time people start revolting disgusted with such things, like what is happening now.
Gov settling with FnF is nothing more than what is already happening with Gov conservator working Gov to release FnF.
The best thing that can happen is, SCOTUS or any lower court ruling to prohibit FHFA acting as both regulator and conservator using well accepted constitutional doctrine of Separation of duties and powers to avoid concentration of power in a single person and related abuse of power.
Courts must appoint an independent conservator to protect FnF considering 12 years of abuse by FHFA conservator.
"The more I think about it, any settlement would have to address mainly derivative type (solely GSE) claims since the courts are shooting any and all direct claims down like ducks in a shooting gallery."
This is not correct. Federal claim court is dismissing direct claims where as regular federal courts are dismissing indirect claims (may be except 5th Circuit). So Judges are utterly confused on how to apply regular laws to FHFA conservatorship.
Judge Lamberth used porky logic to uphold lawless FHFA conservatorship decisions knowing very well unconstitutionality of HERA and most other opportunistic Judges chose to blindly follow Judge Lamberth.
Fellow Travelers created HERA/FHFA as un-natural frankenstein law/agency to do things that would not been possible under regular executive agencies allowed under the constitution.
FnF cases should have reached SCOTUS on unconstitutional grounds long time back, but plaintiffs wasted time on litigating technicalities even when Judge Lamberth hinted clearly about constitutional issues.
DJT has been wiping out lawless socialistic legacy of odumber.
When will DJT going to unshackle FnF from mafia conservatorship.
DJT needs to issue executive order to make FHFA as an executive agency under HUD SY based on SCOTUS CFPB ruling. Then HUD SY needs to immediately end conservatorship. This seems to be simple way end to lawless legacy of independent FHFA and FHFA conservatorship.
"Washington Federal v. United States
On july 9, 2020 judge Sweeney entered a Sealed Opinion/Order AND Order on Motion to Dismiss - Rule 12(b)(1) and (6)"
After 12 year of lawless FHFA conservatorship, Judge Sweeney still considers private FnF conservatorship matters as national security secrets.
Lot has happened in last 12 years and it is a story of lawless conservatorship. All know this and any amount secrecy does not help. Judge Sweeney needs to lift the curtain of secrecy and let the public know real facts and lawless conduct of conservatorship.
"Case dismissed."
With SCOTUS ruling on CFPB and current ongoing Collin's case in SCOTUS, the illegality of conservatorship is not over.
May be, it is standing issue in Sweeney's USFC Court like direct claims.
Mnuchin v. Collins
(1) Whether the statute’s anti-injunction clause, which precludes courts from taking any action that would “restrain or affect the exercise of powers or functions of the Agency as a conservator,” 12 U.S.C. 4617(f), precludes a federal court from setting aside the Third Amendment.
2. Whether the statute’s succession clause—under which FHFA, as conservator, inherits the shareholders’ rights to bring derivative actions on behalf of the enterprises—precludes the shareholders from challenging the Third Amendment.
consolidated with
Collins v. Mnuchin
(1) Whether the Federal Housing Finance Agency’s structure violates the separation of powers; and
(2) whether the courts must set aside a final agency action that FHFA took when it was unconstitutionally structured and strike down the statutory provisions that make FHFA independent.
Clearly these questions are broad scope to render HERA and FHFA meaningless.
FHFA's claim of broad executive/regulatory powers without any checks and balances is good enough cause for SCOTUS to rule against FHFA and turn paper tiger FHFA into harmless sleepy Gov agency.
"Thanks - I did not realize that was the case. I thought if the parties settled the whole issue would be moot. Of course a good settlement and an early settlement is better but for the best interest of the Rule of Law and shareholders generally it would be best to have the NWS ruled ultra virus and unconstitutional.
"
Even when Gov withdraws the case Court can rule on the case.
"Personally I hope this doesnt settle - want to hear the oral arguments"
Does settlement prevent SCOTUS from ruling when questions of law and constitution are involved? I do not think so.
In case of CFPB, Gov agreed with plaintiff's position that CFPB top structure is unconstitutional but SCOTUS appointed third party to present the case on behalf of Gov.
"Seila is NOT precedent that affects Collins or Mnuchin."
CFPB ruling was first level of ruling that applies to all independent agencies including FHFA. Basically executive agencies can not be independent and protected from three branches of Gov.
FHFA case will provide further clarification on HERA. HERA is loaded with extra constitutional provisions. Probably it is impossible for SCOTUS to keep HERA intact without breaking the constitutional structure.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/19-422.html
Jul 09 2020 Petition GRANTED. The petition for a writ of certiorari in No. 19-563 is granted. The cases are consolidated, and a total of one hour is allotted for oral argument. VIDED.
Jul 09 2020 Because the Court has consolidated these cases for briefing and oral argument, future filings and activity in the cases will now be reflected on the docket of No. 19-422. Subsequent filings in these cases must therefore be submitted through the electronic filing system in No. 19-422. Each document submitted in connection with one or more of these cases must include on its cover the case number and caption for each case in which the filing is intended to be submitted. Where a filing is submitted in fewer than all of the cases, the docket entry will reflect the case number(s) in which the filing is submitted; a document filed in all of the consolidated cases will be noted as “VIDED.”ument filed in all of the consolidated cases will be noted as VIDED.
"What SCOTUS outcome do we want for FNMA?"
This really does not matter after CFPB ruling. SCOTUS has clearly enunciated the valid criteria for independent agencies. These criteria alone are enough to abolish HERA and FHFA.
A 100% executive agency like FHFA should never have the protections of 4617(f) or any exemptions from judicial review. Plaintiffs should be seeking to invalidate HERA completely.
Irrespective of Collins case, the plaintiffs in other lawsuits must be reviewing their cases and preparing to file revised filings after CFPB ruling.
If SCOTUS takes up the case then it is definitely not good for FHFA conservator. But even if it does not take up the case, then not much is lost.
Now judge Lamberth can not complain about Congress for bad law. If judge Lamberth were to use the SCOTUS enunciated criteria in his first ruling, then FnF would been free from lawless conservatorship long time back.
"What part of the below quote with which I rebutted your speculation is confusing you?"
The promoters of JPS against CS, have never been correct in their analysis and possible outcomes.
The ruling by SCOTUS in CFPB case has far reaching effect on
all independent agencies that do not conform to these criteria
1. "A multi member body of experts, balanced along partisan lines, that performed legislative and judicial functions and was said not to exercise any executive power."
2. " “inferior” officers, who have limited duties and lack policy making or administrative authority, such as an independent counsel." "
FHFA completely fails not only on both of these criteria but fails lot more on constitutional principles. HERA/FHFA are perfect example of lawless laws/agency that are in violation of constitutional principles. Also the perfect example of how collusion between three independent branches of Gov can circumvent many constitutional principles and bill of rights. HERA can be aptly be called law of mob.
Probably Judge Lamberth hinted at these violations in subtle manner but failed in his sworn constitutional duty to uphold rule of law and constitution and prolonged the pain for all. One can not understand why so many judges were not able apply the above two principles and throw out HERA and FHFA.
There are many more independent executive agencies that are affect by this ruling even when they are headed by multi member board.
"committee asks questions similar to how many heads will hit the ground today, how many tomorrow, we are doing this for taxpayers, we are protecting them. Never have they asked, why are you not doing conservation, what are you doing with the money, why is taxpayers investment money getting used for free healthcare for others, why do we have 600 government employees( and it says so on their pay stubs) watching 2 companies that are close to the most profitable in the world."
Yes, Congress and administration does not care about how many employees are there in FHFA and what they are doing, Because money comes from private companies.
Congress does not care about FnF because, because FnF are private shareholder companies. If FnF were Gov companies and conservator were to steal the money from FnF then there would have been may investigations.
"please explain why could the FHFA have a single director and can stay independent?"
HERA will be abolished completely along with FHFA.
What is the use of HERA and FHFA, if FHFA is not independent to act like a proxy to do lawless things.
"Mark Calabria ... saw this-not surprised at this (AT ALL)
I'm sure it includes FREE GSE Profits (Stolen from Shareholders)"
When these guys wrote HERA, they must have thought of constitutionality of HERA. So this was not a surprise.
Buy only surprise was spineless Judiciary which supported them.
"Judging by this "frenzy" of the PPS today, I'm guessing that either the conference was delayed to a further date or insiders don't like what they're hearing and getting PPS up a bit to pull the rug out when the time is right. SCOTUS not going to be beneficial to GSE's."
What ever SCOTUS has ruled on CFPB case is more than good enough for FnF. FHFA/HERA are far worse than CFPB in terms of violation of constitution and 2 exceptions CJ uses as reference.
FHFA is a executive agency, with its single Director having very broad policy making authority, executive power or administrative authority. Even though FHFA has no legislative or no judicial authorities, FHFA acts as if it is executive agency with legislative and no judicial authorities. Besides FHFA is totally unaccountable to any three branches of Gov. HERA does not have severability clause.
So any Appeals circuit or District court has to completely abolish HERA and its lawless agency FHFA.
"yup"
Donotunderstand, Thanks.
"+100 Sticky please"
Golfbum22, Thanks for validating the post.
"How is he getting paid if we all have him on ignore?
He's been on my ignore for years
Him and kt
Life on this board is much simpler
Lol
"
He is trying his best but not doing good job. He reposts same old stale posts with insane glee.