Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Has anyone seen the letter that we were expecting many weeks ago?
500, I was not trying to pick you apart. I really appreciate you and eveyone else here who has shared information regarding this situation. I was only trying to correct what I thought was a slight error in your post. Sorry if I came across wrong.
Do you really think that a degree from Wharton or anywhere else in the world for that matter makes a person an expert in everything? You know Jack Welch was a super sharp CEO of GE for years but I bet he couldn't design the engines they build. It also wouldn't surprise me to find out that he had attorneys and accountants to orchestrate share transfer and custody issues. No CEO worth his salt strives to be the fountainhead for all info flowing through the organization.
Your post that I have pasted below is specifically talking about notification.
Posted by: 500_and_Long
In reply to: alynnb who wrote msg# 57058 Date:12/20/2006 10:40:44 AM
Post #of 57129
The DTCC is supposed to notify everyone, including the brokers. The brokers have not heard a thing from the DTCC so they are staying status quo.
The DTCC is stealing our money by not allowing the notification and until the DTCC starts notifying we will not trade.
Once BCIT exhausts all avenues to move the DTCC, we will then be on our own to sue them. Keep in mind the DTCC has never lost a case and the SEC is their watchdog group.
If BCIT cannot get them to release the shares it is my opinion we are pretty much screwed.
Again, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION.
David
500,
From what I have read Alynn has been talking about notification not cert exchanges.
You are correct regarding pr's vs. formal notification. The company would always be responsible to individually notify all shareholders of record about the cert exchange. And I am aware that you aren't suggesting that this is the duty of the DTC, but some folks are and this is not the case. This responsibility rests on the shoulders of BCIT.
LOL. That's better than a Briggs & Stratton 5 hp though.
Mastaflash, I agree that this in no way guarantees us that BCIT will trade again. I am only saying that if you follow the rules of the game, we are in the right. In our trading system, when you buy a stock, you buy it with the assumption that the trade is legit. If this were not the case, then all trades would be suspect and your brokers fiduciary responsibility would be monumental. All IMO.
I personally believe we were legitimate shareholders the second we purchased. It is the brokers job to ensure they are selling legit shares not ours to ensure we are buying them. When you think about it, how in this era of computerization could any of us be sure that we bought legitimate shares in any company when they are held in street? This is a problem but it's not ours and it's not BCIT's.
I see so many bills I get confused sometimes.
I've got to disagree with you there. In the Bill of Rights it clearly states; Thou shall not divulge the workplace of the village idiot.
That's funny. I was just thinking about the fact that no idiots were on the board this morning and bingo. You showed up.
Tool, I think you just hit the nail on the head. It's not the money they would pay us that concerns them. It's the thousands and thousands of claims that follow that they are worried about. In fact, I hate to be pessimistic, but this is of a large enough scale that even being right does not assure us victory in legal proceedings. We really need this thing to play out in the media IMO. This situation needs to be likened to the Enron scandal where big whigs stole from average Joe's. That's sensational and that sells papers. This becomes the ultimate David vs Goliath confrontation and everyone loves the underdog. They also love to see white collar thieves eat crow and the only thing that tastes worse than crow is cold crow. And the crow has been in fridge for over a year. IMO.
If the January 16 deadline comes and goes with no activity, I think the company should seriously consider changing there trading method. Since naked shorts already exist, I don't know what restrictions would be placed on them but I know it would stop further shorting and in my small mind it seems that it would lock the naked shorters out. This is all IMHO.
What would be the consequences of Megas declaring the company a custody-only trading company? He could then distribute the shares to everyone who shows up on the NOBO list and all of the short positions would be screwed. If someone had shorted the stock with the shares to cover already borrowed which is the correct way, they would then cover their position with a buy. The "phantom shares" that were always illegal would go away and the brokers that allowed the naked short sales would either lose their money or get it from those who were shorting. This is all IMO so if you see major problems, lay them on me.
Dimension, Most companies including BCIT, allow their shares to trade via the book-entry method as opposed to the custody method. This is done to expedite the exchange of shares and currency which in theory makes the market more efficient. Given this situation, the only way to get "phantom shares" into the system is to have the brokers or the clearing agents introduce the "new" shares by way of a book entry. This is essentiallly what happened at BCIT. You surely don't think that counterfeiters printed up a few million shares and took them down to their local broker and had him sell the shares, do you? Please tell me that you are not that thick. And in the future if you don't have a legitimate question then please don't ask one at all. It only wastes everyones time. Otherwise have a great day.
Excellent points. I think when push comes to shove we will need to ask our representatives the tough question. How can anyone know they bought legit vs. counterfeit shares when the DTC holds all of the cards? This does not only apply to BCIT.
That Tool Power is the point regarding validity. When we purchased our shares, they might have been from the counterfeited shares. This IMO is not our problem however, because whoever initially certified those shares as legit now needs to eat them. When they allowed those counterfeit shares to enter the pool it did not become the purchasers responsibility to check the authenticity of those shares that he wished to buy. I believe all of this falls squarely on the shoulders of the DTC. After all, they only exist to expedite the flow of buys and sells. This is done by electronic certificates as opposed to actual certs which is why we have neither the means nor the responsibility to authenticate our purchase, only they can authenticate. IMO.
I think we have to look at the question of share validity and shorts from the side of logic. When your broker sells you shares, they are certifying the validity of the shares by virtue of the fact that they are holding them out for sale. If this were not the case then the entire market would be operating on the commerce code of "caveat emptor". Given that it is not my responsibility to certify the validity of my shares, then it must be the responsibility of the brokers. The brokers then pass this responsibility up to their "supplier" who also by virtue of the fact that they sold, certified the validity of the shares. With all of this said, it essentially means that the original seller is responsible for selling valid shares. IMO. This same logic holds true for shorts, because it is the responsibility of the lending firm to check availability of the shares before allowing anyone to short them. So to answer your question about our shares, I can't see anything that makes our shares invalid. Before anyone blasts me with how stupid this all is, I want you to ask yourself one question. If this is incorrect, then tell me how I would begin to verify the legitimacy of my shares given that they only exist as a computer entry?
I'm right here with you. I don't want to, but I can wait until h*ll freezes over if need be. And as an aside, someone needs to tell the DTCC that the forecast is extremely hot and getting hotter. Global warming, I guess.
Based on this reply from E*Trade and the pr regarding the cert exchange, I have to believe that our trading is going to be held up until January 16th. In the conversations with Skye and DTCC, has anyone gotten a different impression from those in the know?
Buckey, I think the Big Dirty was just spotted.
I hope he sends carbon copies to the SEC, The Wall Street Journal, and all of the network news stations. I think it is time that political pressure is placed on the delaying parties, regardless of who they are. It would also be nice to see a write-up that detailed the timeline and responsible parties at every juncture of this debacle.
Tool, Has something new happened that I am unaware of? Why do you say that the fireworks will start later this week? TIA.
I think you are spot on Serfie. It would appear that some very powerful one does not want to see BCIT let out of its cage. I only hope we can place him in a cage when this is all over. 6 x 9 with a bed, bath, and bubba.
Agreed. The DTC has shown that it will not bust its own chops. We need someone that will.
I think he would anyways. This has undoubtedly involved people in NYC. I think that would give him jurisdiction regardless of where the DTC is. I also think this involves more than manipulation. If I were a banker(which I'm not) and I knowingly allowed my "corporate partners" to steal from my banks customers, then I am a facilatator to a crime. This is all IMO, but I believe the DTC must either admit to facilitation, which I think is a felony, or they must admit to incompetence which is a breach of fiduciary responsibility. Where I in their shoes I don't know which is better. A) I'm a crook or B) I'm an idiot. Like I said, this is all IMO.
I don't think we can rely on any self-regulatory body to get tough on its self. In my opinion, our best bet is to either involve a DA like Spitzer, NY's DA or an independent attorney that will file on our behalf. We must ask ourselves how confident am I in the police (SRO's) policing the police?
I don't think it would polish up, but I bet it would move through the system without Serfie's plunger.
Send over the cookies, please.
I hope you realize that you offend knuckleheads everywhere when you compare them to these guys.
Your argument may be correct but it will be for bragging rights only. In an efficient market, no one cares about proof. This is analogous to the OJ trial. He did not have to prove his innocence, the DA had to prove his guilt. While neither was able to prove these items, I think you would agree that a rational person would not walk in front of him down an unlit alley. Much less give him a knife and do the same.
I hope you're right. I feel like I am sitting on a gold mine and all I need is a shovel. I just hope Megas gives us the shovel before Christmas.
Does anyone think we will trade before Jan. 16th? I read the PR and it seems to say that this deal is not effective until then. I sure could use the Christmas cash, but I honestly don't see it happening until 2007.
I'm not an attorney, but the sentence below seems to imply that this action does not officially void the old shares until January 16th. Does anyone else read it that way, or is it me being a pessimist?
The exchange will
be for a 1 for 1, with the stipulation that the old certificates
with the old company names, cusip numbers and design, will be
void, shall not entitle the certificate holder to any of the
rights of a shareholder, and shall be worthless, non- transferable
and non-tradeable in any public or private market or exchange
beginning January 16th, 2007, being 60 days as of November, 14th
2006, and shall have no value except for the right to be exchanged
for new certificates.
How can that be? I thought the stock fairy was the one responsible for the reset. This is a fine example of what happens when one tries to delegate. Boy, the Stock Fairy's Association is really going to be hot over this.
I agree Joda. I've actually been involved in one stock that every lie, every angle, and every twisted attitude of manipulators was employed. I am trying diligently to give people the benefit of the doubt. I hope that was justified here but only time will tell. Because with a little time, IMO it is easy to spot the unscrupulous. They eat their own. At any rate, I really appreciate the comments of all you guys. Happy trading and happy Thanksgiving.
Hey Serf, I've not been on this board much lately. Can you tell me if the price reset has happened yet?
Not to be argumentative but you must look at your question, before you bash the questioned? Do you really think that anyone can precisely predict the date and direction of a stocks price? If we could do that it would only take one purchase and everyone with that ability would be sailing the world. If you are truly interested in finding out more about shorting then first check investopedia or one of the other online sources.
The shorts = the processed seal as they make their way through the shark exiting the rear and quickly dropping to the bottom of the ocean.