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I guess.it would be better if those who supported Mark benefits as well.
Can't and won't speak for others but Ive never doubted if the tech worked or not. At this point it is becoming more so can the current team manage the company and drive results. As I've stated many times it doesn't matter how great your option is if alternatives are available even if the means not being cost effective. Supposedly Betamax was better than VHS yet most of us know how that ended.Zune was supposedly better than the ipod and we see how that ended. A lot of you like to assume that there is no competition or others are far behind. I'd rather go with concern and say other companies that are private are more than likely working on their products and the way Sigma likes to share their product for little of nothing, it wouldn't surprise me if at the least their work could lay the foundation for others to beat them to the market or compete on the same level.
Of course 10 years plus down the line Mark and team could look like geniuses and those who remained faithful will be rewarded. In recent months I've liked some of the changes I've seen, but not enough to remove all doubt yet. I truly feel that at this point in the game Mark should have been able to close a small million to 10 million deal with one of its long time collaborators.
I think we should be coming up on a year for some of the testing phasese, so we'll find out soon enough what Sigma worth truly is. Personally my biggest issue is that they can't even give us an entry level cost point for there services. Again at this point in the game they should be able to give a clear sales point.
Although we may not understand the timing of the cfo or exactly what his task will be, I thought getting someone like him on board was one of the things most of us wanted.granted we can't tell how effective he will be in his role, at least it seems to be a move in the right direction.perhaps a diverse board is next on the to do list.
As much as people here celebrate news that doesn't clearly relate to Sigma, I would have thought I'd see slightly more upbeat attitudes about this event.
I don't necessarily disagree with your train of thought and I've already acknowledged the fact that major sales may be further down the road than any of us thought and in my opinion the products are sort of still in the testing phase.
Where we differ to an extent is how much Sigma is willing to share with investors.outside of the issue with Arte, people have asked the same or similar questions every call.truthfully I have to question there honesty about Arte. Why didn't they tell us about the deal not working out during the call, but clearly it was in the report.now it could have not been finalized until after the call, but it's little things like that that make me question Marks leadership from a business standpoint. Normally we are given roundabout answers or the same lockstep and industry isn't ready yet.if it isn't that they seem to hide behind supposed NDAs.
I'm not looking for them to give us every detail of what's happening day to day. What I want to hear is a plan of some sort to build investor confidence.currently we don't have any hard line milestones, targets or dates to even estimate how much longer before major sales will start to happen.the true reason Sigma may not be able to give us forward looks is because they don't have a qualified team to assist in this area.
That's why I'm focused on the small lot business.as I said before there shouldnt be any reason they can't give us more details than "we are getting a lot of inquires".I also stated that Sigma could be improving here and you seemed to have found some evidence to support this.
Those of us doubting Mark could be very wrong ten years down the road but currently Mark while trying his best and making some progress isn't driving the business hard enough for some of us.
It's my belief that most of us posting have researched the company, read the reports and attended calls.I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it ,but it is kind of disrespectful for you or anyone else to speak as if anyone who doesn't agree with your stance is uninformed and has homework to do. We all just have to respect the fact that we view the state of the business differently.
I understand that and thats why GE is not my primary concern.I've stated before that I feel like all the products are still in a testing phase.
At this point I'm more concerned about the small lot business which could supplement Sigma until they start to get major sales.I would think they have more control over driving that part of the business and should be free to explain why they can't and what the game plan is moving forward.of course it could be performing better and they just haven't had any PRs about it.
Either way nothing is stopping them from communicating any roadblocks they are encountering in general.even if the road block is just more real world testing is needed, Sigma should say that clearly instead of having investors believe the products are a 100% live and just needs adjustments based on individual company
My concern would be that I don't recall GE recently speaking on their relationship with Sigma outside 3rd party funded projects lately .the team at Sigma can anticipate a lot of things, but can they provide us with anything meaningful that would support their theory. Anticipating something and being guaranteed something are completely different. I understand they may not be able to give us a lot of details, but they should be able to speak to any roadblocks they may be encountering from a sales and project prospective. Outside of the slow ramp up of the 3d market Sigma would have us believe everything is OK and that doesn't seem to be completely truthful at this time.
Even if they refuse/cant to speak about projects with other companies, they should be able to give us more details as to why they seem to be having issues driving their small lot business,their plans to drive that business or if it is improving how they plan to expand it.
also I would hope in the next meeting they could explain what went wrong with Arte.for all we know, Arte isn't the only venture that has fallen through or is not progressing in a positive/fruitful
direction.
I stated it before, but I thought that was the primary reason for getting the printer. Clearly they know/knew the true time line/demand for their products generating income, so it would have only made sense to use the printer to supplement the company until the main business picks up.
All due respect but people have been saying this forever. The only time Sigma has had a major move was during the 3d hype and Gary Anderson's pumping.I'm just happy the price seems to be overall stable right now. Because of the reverse split, I doubt even a modest 5 million qt would help the price reach peoples expectations pre split.at this rate I expect things to get worst before they get better. In my mind I shouldn't expect anything major until mid 2017 at the earliest.
That goes back to my opinion that the products may not be truly complete or worse not useful in the real world/large scale production.this would explain the need to test the tools in a real world environment and why only one to two units being sold to any given company.
granted any company would test out products before integrating them into their systems, but it just seems like people aren't dying to have this product which is surprising considering the need for quality assurance and Sigma claiming they are the industry leader.you'd think at the very least companies would be indirectly forced to buy it for now, yet they seem to be fine with using the old quality control methods.
Based on their continued relationship with the industry expecially Honeywell, they have something, but Sigma's business acumen maybe the bigger issue.
You would think the small lot business would be better considering the printer is using their product which should be giving Sigma an advantage over their competitors.maybe the issue is that with only one printer, they still can't compete with companies with multiple printers.
At least they don't seem to be dragging out their relationship with Arete.it gives me a little hope that someone there has some business sense and it really is just a timing/incomplete product issue with selling their technology.
I agree something needs to change, but aren't they currently claiming they can't afford board members or a COO. Granted I wouldn't care about dilution to cover the cost for a quality team, but others may feel differently.
Also some people may still feel like the market for Sigma tools are so small that the current state of the business is to be expected.personally I feel that this is the time to drive their products while companies are designing their SOPs and not waiting until companies are in full production.I know that basically what I've stated is Sigma's goal, but it seems that people don't think their products are good enough at its current level.truthfully even though Sigma is saying the products are live, it feels like both products are still being developed.this actually would explain why they haven't been able to make major sales.
What doesn't make sense is why Sigma can't seem to drive their small lot business.if done correctly this could support the company until they can make major sales.
On a high note their revenue did increase for 2015.
They seem to have different videos on YouTube and of course information on their website, but like I said before I haven't had the time to really dig deep into what their goal is when compared to Sigma.
At a glance you do seem to be right about them being more of a post inspection product.
I haven't had time to read up on their products, but has anyone heard of Faro Tech.they seem to be developing products similar in nature to what Sigma is trying.I don't know if it compares to the technology Sigma is using however they are working with 3d systems.
Initially I thought they started the small lot production to supplement the business until better results came from the main products.unfortunately it doesn't seem they are pushing/driving that side of the business very well either.because other companies are doing the samething but without the Sigma products you'd think the small lot venture would be performing better than it is.maybe even to the point of them investing in more printers.
I'm not sure if it's the same across the board since since GE has had a longer relationship with Sigma but the testing period is for a year. With GE and I assume all of the other companies, Sigma products are not being used outside of testing.
I don't recall ever reading anything about what exactly happens after a year.
I also believe this may be a longer play than most of us thought
I hope I'm proven wrong, but I don't see them volunteering any new news.At best someone may ask a question that gives an update, but even then I expect a vague response if any.typically Sigma seems to release new news or updates shortly after or just before meetings.
At this point, I'm mainly looking for an increase in their small lot production orders and the reason the deal with Arete fell apart.the next thing would be an update on Materialise and Oracle.also because there was a meeting that took place that should have had some information provided, I'd like to hear more details about their relationship with 3dsim.
Because of the OEM program, I'm not expecting any major deals for at least a year maybe two, unless it comes out of the service agent/test site deals.
I don't think it was unexpected.I'm more interested in their statement about possibly using the shares to buy other product lines.it could just be another generic statement like the one about buying other companies ect but unlike that statement they didn't say they didnt have any immediate plans to do. I wonder what would they want to buy from someone else even if it's just a patent.
Has anyone else received a notice about next month's shareholder's meeting.
After listening to the Materialise call, I'm wondering if Sigma has had talks about using their products with Materialises mental printing production services.
I'm hoping to hear something about their collaboration with 3dsim this week but Im not sure if the meeting will have a press release or any public information release this week, however I'd expect Sigma to give more details next month at the latest.
Like you I question their relationship with GE,but we don't have enough information either way to make an educated decision.luckily their other relationships seem to be progressing well or at the very least they are building other relationships outside of GE.
Lol I've been in meetings throughout the day but I did get the email at/around 8:06am.
Like you I'm pleased with the results,however that doesn't change my stance. I'm looking forward to what we learn in March.I never doubted their potential but their openness.
The verdict on my shares are the same as it has been for the last year or so.how are your shares coming along.
I like your point of view but my big concern isn't the price. That's just one of my questions.my biggest issue is not giving enough details about why they are moving in certain directions, what limits are they facing, what is working for them and what have they learned from the mistakes.essential I want more details and yes I understand that they may not want to compromise the company but I feel they can do more than the current status.
Your point of view on the price is basically what they have been telling us for the last couple of months.in my mind Sigma should be able to measure the value of there service from base to large service job based on there current studies.of course that's assuming that there isn't just a standard unit price just like any other quality equipment.if that don't have the ability to do that, this goes back to allan's point about bringing in more business minded people.in my opinion there is no way you are selling a product or service and don't know what your price or price range is.
Now if they are really still in the testing phase for both modules, it would make sense that you are still trying to figure out the value of the service however Sigma is giving the impression that they are in full sale mode.I'm personally not sure about Contour but others disagree with me.at the end of the day there are not random numbers that they are going to anyone with.it has to be based on some compiled data that may as you guys and mark are saying may include complexity of the jobs.
I'm not really trying to measure the industry as much as I can see it changing at a seemingly fast pace.when I say new industry I'm speaking on 3d printing becoming more mainstream in the coming years.although it isn't metal based technology, Carbon 3D is seemingly going to take over for their market.this is just one example of changes coming seemingly out of nowhere and being a game changer.this is why I question the true level of competition Sigma has.
Also I'm a bigger fan of the Anime than the movies lol
If we are correct in our thinking, I felt the same way as you on this issue.The PR for Inspect didnt read anywhere close to Contour's PR.
I'm reading this as still in development and not fully vented. They even use the term beta installation and say that it is available to those people who are a part of the program.why not just say its for sale if that is the case?it could have just been a poorly written PR, but I'm reading it a little different from you.
I still thank you for taking my comments seriously instead of making assuming the worst.
I respect what you are saying and I agree to a certain extent. I stated from the start that my expectations at this point were low as far as sales go, however the communication from Mark was we are in lockstep with GE.he didn't define what lockstep meant to him and that left it up to the community to figure that out.the community ran with the idea that when GE went live so would Sigma and no one questioned the scale of the start up.
This goes back to my true concern which is clear detailed information during the calls which are a public forum that we can all hear facts and not guess about the future.
I agree that and I believe I've stated that the industry is moving slow, but the expectation was created by Sigma.I didn't lead anyone to believe either directly or indirectly that Sigma's relationship was move at the same pace as GE who are clearly moving forward on some level.I didn't release a PR saying Contour was live and then follow up by saying it's still testing with Honeywell.I didn't say that we had inquiries about creating parts and then followed up with we working with another company to do this and still (correct me if I'm wrong ) hasn't said anything about getting actual work.I didn't create a evaluation program that as far as we can tell sparked little interest and then extended a year long evaluation period (granted I'm sure they can buy more before the year is up)that could indirectly push out major sales of product to those clients.
For those of you who feel I'm just trying to start issues, I think you should take the time to think about both the positives and negatives of Sigmas moves in the last year.before that I had no reason to question as hard because Sigma more or less kept to their deadlines and said when they were refocusing their energy.
Overall they seem to be on the right path, but again I need better answers.they released a PR about a company who asked them not to disclose who they were right. I'm sure in the similar / same fashion they could at the very least give us more details of the business even without breaking any NDA
Sorry I have to disagree with you.the fillings are not our only source for information but Mark and Dave speaking at meetings as well and as I've said before they seem to be putting a positive spin on the future outlook.you may not agree, but to me if things were moving along just fine, there wouldn't necessarily be an evaluation period(evaluation period may be normal a program is different to me).for me that means that they could be having issues getting people to buy.although I like the fact that they are attempting to be a small manufacturer, it also makes me think they are trying to supplement their income while waiting for their big break.
Me doubting some of their moves because they have not really explained their new direction, doesn't mean I'm anti Sigma.
You may not have the questions and that's fine, but others have openly said they need more details and I'm sure they are more people lurking who would side with you as well as myself.I think the current stock price speaks volumes for how investors feel about the current state of the business. I know you and a many others are long(like to scream that fact) and that's great but what does that really mean to you.am i invested in Sigma yes.have I sold any this year or last year no,but I have done so in the past.I'm not a fan of Sigma Labs I'm an investor and as such I'll celebrate them when they are doing well and question them when I feel the narrative is not reflecting the picture they painted.
I also said that were not doing much better than their consulting days so clearly I'm aware of them making minor maybe key sales and I think you are intelligent enough to infer that from my post.all you've said is that you trust Sigma and that's fine.I'm saying that while I still see potential based off what they have achieved so far, I'm also questioning them because of what they have not done based on their projected time frame. Because they didn't meet their time frames ,I want better answers.
If your doctor gave you what he said was ground breaking medicine and it will cure you in a year, would you not have questions about why you are clearly still living but not cured after a year?having set backs are to be expected but it's Sigma's job to explain the set backs and why they are choosing certain routes to get to the end goal.Because I lack information, them constantly changing the plays makes me doubt that everything is going as planned.
Your statements are laughable. I don't believe my asking for more disclosure makes any difference to anyone as far as staying or otherwise.I've been around but I didn't feel the need to say anything and more importantly I wasn't trapped in the house by snow.as far as repeatedly post, i was being addressed and gave credit to a person who gave a credible answer and not just hope for the future talk. also weird that asking for better answers would be seen as bad when clearly Sigma is not moving at the pace any of us expected on any fronts.I also stated they they still have potential but apparently I'm just saying that to do hide among the sheep.there is nothing for me to gain by trying to convince people to sell and I highly doubt people take their shots from this site.
Are you really counting one unit being sold to a company/ies (as far as we know) or units bought with award money as Sigma making major sales.I didn't think I had to say as much but I think we all expected a big buy from GE if not Honeywell and that is what I meant major sales not one test unit and I'll let you know in a year.
Didn't someone post an article where Alcoa has a deal with GE for billions, yet your trying to prove a point by bringing up one or two units sold.Sigma is in lockstep and they can't get a bone at start of production.
I haven't bought anything I'm holding because the price is so low it's not really worth getting rid of.if they come through good for all of us.if not it's an lost I based on the information I was initially provided with and like I said before we all need better information moving forward.if you feel ok with what has been provided good for you but I need more and from what I've read I'm not alone.
While you are bringing up security concerns, letting big companies play with your tools with no guarantee leaves you open to more risk than the questions I'm asking, but I'm guessing you have no issue with that right. They aren't asking these companies to buy/test 2-5 units, but are letting them test one unit.You may feel protected because of patents but we dont have a clue what Sigma has agreed to more so with their lockstep partner. In their defense I do recall them speaking on that issue and they seemed to feel protected but there is always away around issues and everyone else is playing with longer money.
As far as them being on target with the industry, I'm not sold on that either because again their lockstep dance partner has left them sitting on the wall as far as we can see while they are making product.even if we don't count any of the units what happened to the manufacturing side of the business.
We can agree to disagree about them being ahead of the game since neither of us can really prove it one way or the other.I'm guessing you trust Marks word while I believe others are hard at work and could have just as good, better or good enough of a product to compete with Sigma.this could be the best technology for the next 20 years and GE/others want something Mark and his team don't won't to lose, but regardless I want as much information as Sigma can give me moving forward.
I didnt expect a cheerleader section but I also didnt expect to have to keep repeating what everyone seems to be agreeing on which is a more transparent team is needed.
I understand that talking about money will always be a heated issue, but in my opinion if we come together and demand better answers we well get them and have the team be prepared to answer unexpected questions from bigger players.I can remember during a call that a financial question could not be answered at that time(I know it happens).
I also understand that some people may feel that Mark and Dave are good guys and would never outright misinform us.They may very well be but I also believe they are trying to run a business that needs funding and they may filter the truth especially if we as shareholders don't push for more clarity.
At the end of the day I have faith in the company and more importantly money invested. As the industry grows I expect Sigma to grow with it.I dont expect the company to be the toast of the town overnight and Im happy they are crawling but this is the year they need to stand up.
The evaluation period is a trial is it not.
I believe EOS is a private company so I wouldnt expect to hear their sales numbers or anything else from them. A better comparison may be Materialise or any other public company.I also never said I wanted Sigma to compromise the company to please me.
Speaking on Materialies and contour we were told that there were delays or expected dates for both. Do I want more details about the issues. yes but at this point them being forthcoming is good enough.I'm not asking for a daily operations report or detailed email,text or phone logs, but to get honest updates and as much details as they can share during the meetings.Again Id rather hear the bad news without filter so that we all can make educated moves.
I also agree that they very well could be doing a lot behind the scenes and are not speaking on it, but we can all agree that their results to date dont reflect any major moves that we are unaware of.That being said that big news could come out Friday.
As far as bringing up Tesla (not you Kanya) I think the leadership knows how to pull the people into his world and hype their products.The Oculus Rift team are also good at hyping their product and getting people to pre-order an unfinished product.Not only that but who would believe that anyone would pay those prices for those products given there limits, yet you guys would have me to believe we cant get a price range for a product you are saying we have a three year jump on compared to the little to no competition.
Mark may not be the best front man but at this point that maybe the problem as well. Dont get me wrong I want Mark to be Mark and he may be a better leader than Steve Jobs or Elon Musk (I belive Musk came into Tesla later and I think of him as the face of the company and helped to fund) behind the scenes, but there are times when I feel Dave probably should take on the public face more.This also goes back to Alan concerns about bringing more business minded people on board.I know and agree with controlling the overhead cost but I think Alan wants a set up similar to Tinkerine which is a start up company as well.Again I could be wrong and years from now it will turn out Mark has both sides of the coin needed to take Sigma to the next level on all fronts.
The only fact you found that I over looked was that the program is supposedly for a year from install and the price was/is predetermined at signing(still doesnt state a price range and I'm not buying the whole every situation is different excuse).the other information you provided proves my point of them not really giving direct answers.I view those other statements as more or less them hoping for the best and not them necessarily confirming anything.even on the calls they don't sound very confident about their answers.it comes off as if they are just trying to keep the investors happy instead of being straight with us.
No where did I state that they hadn't sold to anyone, but given that one of their products has been available for a year and was developed with a company they like to remind us they are in lockstep with I expect more at this point and by more nothing extreme.one to two million in sales would be fine if you also included the manufacturing part of the business that they claimed was getting inquiries.
Again they seem to be making progress,but as myself and others have said they need to be more forthcoming with answers.In my opinion part of the current reason for the price drop is because people were expecting a major buy from GE once production started and unfortunately it was indirectly feed by Marks lockstep comments.if he was more direct about the current situation with GE people would have had a more realistic time frame for higher volume product sells.outside looking in they seem to have a better relationship with Honeywell.This is what happens when people are lift to guess the direction of the business instead of them being as open as they could be.also the fact that they seemingly created a trial program out of nowhere makes me feel as though people may not be as interested at this point and time as we were made to believe.
For the record I currently have no plans of cutting my loses yet.Sigma still has potential and I believe the industry as a whole will reshape manufacturing in the coming years.as I said for the third or fourth time now I just want more upfront communication.at this point clear communication is more important than sales at this early stage in the companies development.
All due respect,unless you work for the company or have a source you are guessing like the rest of us. My overall point is that at this point in the game we as investors shouldn't be guessing about something as simple as a product price.the product price isn't my only issue but the easiest thing I believe they could answer and at this point should be more or less known by them.
Secondly we can't be sure how ahead of the game Sigma truly is and even if that is a true statement why can't they sell their product to people they have been working with for years.supposedly the Zune was a better product than the ipod, betamax(?) was better than VHS etc, so being first or the best doesn't necessarily mean a win.we should also keep in mind that within the industry advances are happening fast,so what could be advanced today maybe obsolete tomorrow.
I'm not trying to come off negatively and I know the Sigma team is working hard, but I just want better answers.my other issue is that they maybe spinning the truth to be more favorable than it may be.we are all entitled to certain information so that we make educated decisions and I'm willing to lose every cent if they trust me with the truth.in their defense as far as they know they are telling us the truth.
I've been invested in this company for three plus years as well as read all PR's, read their reports, lurked on this board and listened to their meetings. Most of the questions have been glossed over and I'm sure if they were willing to answer those questions those of you who reach out to witty would have shared the answers.
I didn't ask anyone here for any answers because I don't believe anyone here can answer them.some of those questions are what I what to hear about and without them fearing for the worst. Dot connecting is fine but I think we all need facts and these facts should come from them source.the answers should also come out in a public forum and not the half assed responses we currently accept from them.
I'd rather hear a worse case situation and as much as possible detailed answers than half truths.
As i said we don't even know the price point of any product currently being sold.I know for a fact this question has been asked many times and we've never gotten a direct answer.clearly they are selling the product at a discounted price, but what do they believe the actual price will be. I understand not wanting to under sell but they should at the very least be able to give us a price range based on their current work results, similar tools, and the current price discounted.
I'm not attacking them but I need more answers and less hoping for GE/Honeywell to come in and save the day.they are doing an ok job ,but the truth is great ideas fail everyday or come too late.
I could be wrong but you seem very emotional.you may blindly trust them and maybe for good reason however myself and others have higher expectations for their team.
While it is great they may be going in a right direction, I can see why some people are not sold on the current state of the business.The team at Sigma normally create more questions than giving us answers.While I understand having secrets and NDA, Sigma maybe hiding their lack of progress by not being as transparent as they could be.While I dont expect them to be a house hold name over night, at this point I think they should be performing way better than their consulting days. Granted the industry is commercially young and Sigma is a smaller niche market, they are at the point where they have to start proving themselves.
My top questions concerns for the upcoming meeting are (some may have been answered in the past)
What is the estimated product price?
Do you see your products as a need/future requirement or is it a nice option?
Although I don't believe Carbon3d does anything with metals, does their method of printing (assuming they or others could do the same/similar for metals) hurt your product?
Are there any current methods for metal printing that your products would not be of any use?
Are you still trying to create their own printer?
Are there any plans to buy more printers and what are the true results of the manufacturing segment of the business? I dont recall any orders for manufacturing parts.
How long is the evaluation period (a year, 6 months) and is the time frame the same for all companies?
If a company likes the product, is there a guaranteed order/price or do they buy more at a later time/if ever?
Why was the evaluation program extended? Did you not get the response from the community you expected?
What are your opportunities/weaknesses as a company and how are you going to address them moving forward?