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Good find. The court will rule in navbs favor. It settles the debt in full. Crg cant argue that. This is a pretty clear play out now.
Guys anyone notice this? Does this mean that a proxy vote is coming very very soon?
http://archive.fast-edgar.com/20161130/A3A9M22DZW22A2ZZ272J2MZIBWTSZB22Z282
It's amazing how silent this message board is when it's a pretty exciting time for the company
Here is another opening on December 9th!
https://mobile.twitter.com/vipcig/status/804718083948630018/photo/1
Again. The company is making progress. Oh and those VIP innokin cool fire devices that I said were outta stock the other day are now back in stock. They are selling many of the high end vaping devices and hopefully gaining market share when it comes to the right side of the vaping spectrum.
Q4 better show us something to support it.
Hey chuck,
I just looked and the U.K. Amazon price for smok alien is 59 pounds. That is exactly the same as the VIP website.
We do not make our own high end mods. We make vape pens and lower wattage vaping devices. But the higher end versions like smok and the innokin cook fire are way way too costly to make and manufacture ourselves.
It sounds like you may not be a high wattage vaper. When you buy this device you also need the coil and batteries etc to make it complete. Well why not also get the e juice there as well? That is where the profit margins kick in. The profit is in the liquid.
In case anyone wants to know. The smok alien and smok g priv is out of stock. Sold out on the VIP website fast. The silver version is available still on the VIP website.
What do we think of that guys?! Good news or bad? If you google smok alien the reviews are super positive and the devices are super new (less than a month old).
They sell out the new devices fast can only mean they are gain some of the market share back. When you buy the device you most certainly are buying juice also. Q-4 is gonna show an increase. They have been flag for a few quarters on basically no new products. This change can only show positive results in the revenues.
Oh and also there is this: https://mobile.twitter.com/NexusEngage/status/803994713812570112/photo/1
It's good advertising.
Comments anyone?
What PPS would you imagine this going to if say we get 12 million Q4 (20% increase) and say 14-15 million for Q1?
I need a PPS of 30 cents to break even. The PPS has stayed pretty stable before during and after the Q3 report thus far and I am starting to believe it can only move up from here once truly positive things start to happen. Remember that the BOD need a PPS above 14.5 cents to see a profit (that includes calm waters as well).
They certainly need to show some kind of increase Q over Q come Q4 otherwise that will be 3 quarters of flat revs. The new Smok Alien device is already sold out on the website. I emailed them and asked when they will get more in and why it sold out so fast (also asked how many units were sold in such a short period of time). The device has only been online the VIP website for less than 3 weeks so that is very promising. A lot of the new e liquids and new devices didnt come available until Q4 so it makes sense that we didnt see the increase in revs Q3.
I went to a local vape shop in Arizona and both the customer and man working stated that the Smok Alien is very very new and also very much a favorite of vapors almost immediately.
I want to see more juice lines on the website. Sub-ohm sells out fast and then they get more and it sells out just as fast again. The indicators are there that the company is starting to pick up revs.
The websites they sold ARE NOT VIP/FIN/VAPESTICK..... it was some other website that they are making very tough to discover. I could not find the URL for the sales of GEC in the SEC docs. I think they advertised heavily and would get revs from it but they didnt get enough back versus what was needed to put into the website.
Anyone else happy with today's limited drop in price? It shows that the pps is pretty much bottomed out even with this flat revenue report. Still, the market cap should reflect yearly revs which are in the 40-50 mill range and with no interest payments due or debt due for 4 years the PPS should be closer to 34 cents.
Once they show increased revs and if they can push it to 1 million or more in EBITDA hopefully by Q4 the pps should respond very well.
They still have enough cash for the next few quarters. 800k from GEC sale and the 4 million in july of 2016. the 8-k yesterday showed they had cash and cash-equivalents of 1.6 million as of the end of june.
I imagine cash in the amount of 2-3 million still on hand at the end of Q3.... just have to wait for the 10-k on that.
Hey Chuck,
It did not. The company was basically flat quarter over quarter. If you account for the sale of GEC then the revs were the same Q over Q. If you account for GEC I was hoping for 12million which is a 20% increase QoQ. The company didn't get new financing until sometime into Q3 so it is tough to really hound them about Q3. The company has got to draw a line in the sand and say "from here we expect an increase in revenue performance". Dan did to a degree start to talk like that with this past conference call at the end just before the Q and A section.
I constantly see new e-liquid being sold online at VIP and then it goes out of stock, they get more in and then it is out of stock again. This has been happening mostly in the fourth quarter PLUS the new vaping devices also have been going the same way (the cool fire IV) so I have a positive outlook for Q4.
People really need to look at the 8-k from yesterday and just see how much money and effort the online GEC section was.
Last year GEC made 7.4 million (not a small amount right?) BUT
the money spent to get 7.4 was 9.4 million. They lost 2 million.
Even for 6 months into 2016:
the amount made was 4.7 million but the cost was 5.7 = negative 1 million. That means the trend would have been another 2 million loss at the end of 2016.
Think of how much more VIP can be if they spend that much money and time equal to GEC? AND how they would very likely gain a profit versus swallow a loss just to sustain revs with GEC
Hey Man,
If you are going to take the time to post numbers you need to do it right. The Revs for the and ALL quarters are after taking out the revs made by hardwired. SO for Q2 2016 its was 11.7 BUT you are not paying attention to the sale of hardwired.
Q2 2016 is now 9.6 mill instead of 11.7. (HARDWIRED accounted for only 2mill)
Please revise your numbers and then re-submit.
It is misleading and if you support the company you need to fix your math!!!
Response from Management.
I asked about Calm waters and if they will increase the Authorized Shares since Calm Waters (CW) has many shares beyond the current OS and the CFO responded saying that they do not expect him to exercise his shares until they are bought out by another group. That gives me a lot of comfort that CW is on our side and will not dilute the company. They are gonna rise up really well over time. The OS is so low considering the value of the company and its current market cap.
Very soon things are gonna change in a big big way. That is why they are not concerned about press releases and pumping the stock. The OS is controlled by investors and all they need to do is increase the revs and make it clear that this company is worth much more per share than it is now. I am very hopeful.
my target price has got to be somewhere closer to 50 cents and above. This Monday is gonna be huge. Fingers crossed for 14 million and above. Then hopefully he sets the expectation of 16 million or more for Q4.
Private message me with your email address if you wanna see the correspondence. I am also going to ask several questions this Monday related to the TPD and Future revenues.
Then that means you are also on the losing side! You are ridiculous. I would advise others to not follow this train of thought. Its foolish and has ZERO validation in any way. Sure lets get many many shares for cheap and then not take the pps up in a significant way so the company fails no-one benefits (except for calm waters) not even the board of directors nor any public share holders.......
Makes no sense.
I am not sure what to think about your comment. You expect him to announce that they are having big revenues this quarter before they announce the earnings? Nobody does that, not even the really shameless penny stocks. What is your logic?
What would you consider massive revs improvement? And your belief of the loans being toxic is seriously incorrect. I would love to see 14 mill for this Q.
Attention:
Another New E-liquid (OHm-E) AND a new sub-ohm vaporizer on the VIP website.
NEW_PRODUCTS
[url]https://www.vipelectroniccigarette.co.uk/e-liquid/
[/url][tag]E-liquid[/tag]
The company continues to move forward with new products and technology.
I am a big believer in the company since the refinancing and they are quietly making the moves needed to increase revs and keep up with their competitors. I again will be shocked if all this activity since july 1 does not result in at least a 1 mill. increase in revs for Q3.
He did state that they have 20 new kiosks ready to go for Q3. So with that being said consider the math.
Assume each store sells $500 a day in general revenues. Times that by 20 stores and again times it by 30 days in each month on average = $300,000 per month and again times that by 3 months in a quarter = $900,000. I feel like 1 million is on the lower end. This does not account for the increase in QoQ of already existing stores as well as the expected increase in internet sales AND it also does not account for the increases in vapestick and FIN, albeit considerably smaller than VIP, and one can safely conclude that Q3 should show an increase of at least 1 million.
Any thoughts anyone?
Yes. The Brexit wont happen at least for another 2 years so the TPD still applies until it happens... if it actually truly does.
Yes. The Brexit wont happen at least for another 2 years so the TPD still applies until it happens... if it actually truly does.
Yes. The Brexit wont happen at least for another 2 years so the TPD still applies until it happens... if it actually truly does.
ARTICLE 20 TPD:
No-one has brought this issue up but it is very important for vaping in the EU and most importantly in the UK.
From my reading the TPD (tobacco products directives) is a collection of rules that are not in the buyers best interests and can be costly to both the makers of vaping juice and retailers like
VIP
Some big events related to TPD
1. law went into effect may 2016.
2. All non compliant vape juice can still be sold until may 2017
3. There exists significant advertising laws in the TPD.
4. The VIP kiosks serve as advertising without violating that law.
This gives VIP a big strategic advantage over others in that respect.
5. 10ml vials are the limit and 20mg/dl is the max strength. This is mandatory come May 2017. MAy 2017 and thereafter we will see the biggest changes come. Some articles talk about how many items on a stores website or at the shop will be removed overnight.
How can this help VIP?
1. The costs associated with may 2017 regulations are too much for some companies. They will go out of business but how many will remain to be seen. VIP should be able to claim some of those customers are their choices are going to be reduced.
2. The advertising limits are harsh, according to many vaping news sites, but VIP is able to advertise in compliance with the TPD.
3. VIP is already adherent to the new manufacturing rules and has a juice maker that is compliant. Many vaping retialers are going to reduce the variety, volume of options, and flavors as a result of TPD come may 2017. VIP will not.
Basic rules include
All advertising of e-cigs and vaping products will be banned from all forms of advertising, including TV, radio, newspaper, magazines, and most incredibly, online and social media marketing. After May 20, it will be illegal for local vape shops to Tweet or Instagram about their products and e-juices.
Tank capacities must be approved by the TPD and cannot exceed 2ml.
New tanks must receive MRHA approval before they can be sold on the market. There are also no specific requirements for how long this MRHA approval may take or how much it will cost.
E-liquids cannot exceed 20mg of nicotine and must be sold in bottle sizes of 10ml or less.
New e-juices released after November 19, 2017 must also be tested and approved by the MRHA, involving another perhaps lengthy and costly approval process.
Another E-liquid vapor line added to the VIP website. It is called shisha and it is made by VIP.
The Company had 175 privately owned stores so stated the CEO during the Q1 earnings conference call. He also stated that the goal was to reach 200 privately owned kiosks before the end of the year. Now if you add in all the franchised stores and other vape vendors that carry the company products (call stockists in the UK) that number is much higher.
In case anyone is keeping track;
8: new kiosks since the last earnings reports and conference call
1: kiosk that has been converted into a store
--A new vaping device that has our company logo engraved onto the device. If you go to the VIP store you will see that 3 of the 5-6 different versions of the device are sold out. This tells me that they are selling a great deal of them.
--Several new vape juices are available for purchase online
1. Sub-ohm
2. Patty Bakers
3. Bord02
4. Skull Slushies
And all of the Sub-ohm are out of stock as well some of the Bord02 are also out of stock which again shows that they are selling. Even some of our own E-liquids are out of stock. I see this are more of a selling faster than can make versus lack of cash given how fast they came onto the website and how fast it has become unavailable.
[url]https://www.vipelectroniccigarette.co.uk/e-liquid/
[/url][tag]CHECK OUT THE E LIQUID PAGE [/tag]
If you read the blog post about the vaping expo going on now they point out the fact that their are so many more juices being displayed at the expo versus new devices/manufacturers. As the CEO has said before at the roth conference; "E-liquid" is driving the market"
All of these developments just further suggest to me that they are going to produce an increase in Revs Q3 and Q4. I still think Q3 will only be in the 12-14 range. 13.5-14 mill for Q3 would be very nice to see and then a bigger boost of 15-16 mill in Q4 would be just what we need to bring the PPS back into the 30 cent range and above.
It is also nice to see that they state the funds are going to be used for VIP and FIN in the USA specifically.
I want to know what the revenue was but cant seem to access the item 9.01 as shown in the 8-k. Anyone able to help?
ALSO
I work for walgreens in Arizona and noticed today that they are retailing a new vaporizer and vape juice for FIN at the stores which is not available online. I took a photo and plan on posting it soon. Its a sub-ohm vape device and the vape juice is very similar looking to what vape stores sell. The flavors are pretty standard but the new product and liquid is very promising.
Meaning.....? I dont really get what you are suggesting. Strong owns the company but what else are you trying to say?
with all the new kiosks and flavors online plus the new vaping device that many people say is a good buy, to have the company not show improvements in the next Q3 would be very upsetting.
The company could be asking strong to exercise shares even though at a loss for extra money to use for expansion reasons as well.
Another juice line added today. The company continues to add more juice suppliers with each day. 4 different companies within 10 days.
juice line vip
its not $850K per month. that is the quarterly amount.
I think it is better to say it is hard to believe that they are selling shares at 7 cents when each director has an option at 8.7 cents per share.
Highpeaks,
Please take note that the monthly shares given is not $850k.
The MONTHLY shares given is 234,000 shares which is equal to $28
the $850 is for QUARTERLY shares = 7mill shares.
Highpeaks,
Please take note that the monthly shares given is not $850k.
The MONTHLY shares given is 234,000 shares which is equal to $28
the $850 is for QUARTERLY shares = 7mill shares.
New Items!
Everyone please take a close look at the VIP website. They have now 3 new e-liquid companies available online for purchase. When I first took note of only one company (Bord02) that was less than 5 days ago and now we have 3 different juice makers not owned by VIP available for purchase on the website (Bord02, Patty bakers, and Sub-ohm juice)! link:
insert-text-here
As well, some of the items are already out of stock which I would imagine means that they are selling them quickly (why would they first start to sell them without having proper inventory levels first). Please also take special note that the pink cool fire vape device is also sold out. It appears to me that they are certainly selling plenty right now.
I recall Dan talking about partnering with a Juice supplier and how they are planning on creating a E-liquid website. I guess the VIP website is serving that purpose.
Also if you look closely at the FIN website it is becoming very apparent that they are using that customer base and the website as a jumping off point to start selling VIP products to an already established customer base.....I think that is a wise choice considering Vaping is really more popular than simple e-cigs and the lack of true revenues coming from FIN overall. Just look at the monthly promos it is nothing but VIP products. I expect that are trying to sell off old FIN products and start to push VIP products
[url]https://www.fincigs.com/shop-now/sale/monthly-promotion.html
[/url][tag]insert-text-here[/tag]
Guys,
The company is making moves but few are willing to do the work and see it happening. They have opened 6 new kiosks since the earnings report (two of which are in South Africa) and have partner with Innokin which makes the newest vapes (the Cool Fire vape has as a lot of good reviews) AND I just noticed last night that they are partnering with a vape juice company that is one of the most popular worldwide e-liquid makers (Bord02).
Not to mention that the new FIN website is basically a way for them to slowly get rid of old FIN products and start sneaking in VIP products.
AGAIN we will just have to wait and see how much it equals in sales each quarter. I will be happy with 13.5 mill or more in Q3. You cannot expect much more than that since the financing didnt come until the last day in June.
Q4 should be closer to reaching 15mill and if an EBITDA showing positive values occurs, we will see a much bigger rise in the PPS.
The rate of shares given to Calm Waters is certainly concerning. However, the fact that he so far has not actively traded a large amount of those shares are comforting to me. Some folks here will try to say he is short selling with naked shares and yada yada but he will dictate how high the pps will go once the revs increase in a significant way.
That being said, revs should increase quickly but the degree at which they do will be up for debate. I would like to see 1.5 mill increase QoQ for Q3 and a continued increase for Q4.
No-one should expect an explosion of revs all of a sudden.
Simple.
Huge amount of ever present debt hanging overhead. They did put out PRs at times (like the vapestick in the Northeast and the expansion of FIN to 10,000 new locations) but as we have joked about before the PPS would go down versus up each time.
The huge amount of debt has and will always be the biggest source of concern. Now that the debt is pushed 4 years back that concern can be ignored for a period of time.
Think about it. We have a Quarter where revs =15.7 and then it dropped to 12 mill. Had it stayed at the same level or gone a little higher then we would be in a very different place.
Revs and Debt are the two biggest movers of the PPS plain and simple. Say they put out a PR stating that they have a new country which is doing business with them. Will that somehow make more people buy the stock? I imagine not really. BUT if they do increase revs by 2 or more for the coming quarter (even 1.5 mill) on top of that what if the EBITDA is close to zero (it was negative 400k this past Q) that would be more significant and I imagine will cause people to invest
So what is the point for Dan to promote one single Kiosk like the one in liverpool 10 days ago that opened or the outlet in South Africa tweeted 10 days ago when it really comes down to making more money and getting into the green (black)?
Big time companies rely more on quarterly earnings report than periodic PRs that talk about things to come versus money made.
He worked for many large Corps. and has that kind of mentality.
You say that Strong wants to get cheaper shares by holding the PPS down but even if that is so he would then want the PPS to rise so that he can make a fortune on the margins of increase.
You are saying that he wants to invest 98 mill in a company to then get a bunch of shares for cheap and then take it into the ground to then get fractionally smaller shares and somehow make more than 98 mill on a company that is worth many times less than when he first invested? That is seriously bad investing.
True he does have Shared Voting power BUT he cannot use those shares to vote until he actually does exercise the shares. The only shares he has right now to use as voting power is in the 40 mill range which represents less than 30% of total OS. Go ahead and double check me but I believe that is the case.
He may have many shares entitled to him but until he does actually purchase them and exercise the 300 and some odd million shares he can have once he actually exercises them.
Therefore; this continued talk of dilution and RS and taking them private is nonsense.
We benefit from not going into BK MD3423 as does everyone else.
He may receive more each time it is lower in price BUT that does not = more money overall. You are being a conspiracy theorist when you make claims that he has someone else do his trades for him or "at arm's length" as you say; you cant prove that its happening and cant prove that it is not occurring and either way it does not help anyone but just create paranoia. This company does actually have a real operations going on and makes real money. Plenty of actual work is being done unlike many many other OTC companies like FITX, VPCO just to name 2.
Not all companies do actually behave as shady as others.
What may actually being happening is the other lenders are playing games (remember they did say that a few lenders did not want to play ball when it came to renegotiating the loans). Strong was the reason why we still have a chance to make or break even dont forget that.
Sorry help me understand what you think the plan is for strong and Dan?
I have a hard time seeing how it is better for Calm waters to dilute down to a penny and then RS versus funding the company and getting as many shares as possible, watch the PPS go up and then cash in, is his plan?
You seem convinced of this? What do you believe is their goal?
Why are you so pessimistic? I am also losing so much right now but I still dont see how they benefit more from your angle versus grow the company in PPS value and quarterly revs and then sell the company.
I do believe that the AS will increase to 500mill or 1 billion once enough time has passed so strong can get his share but I am ok with that as long as he continues to fund the company.
The 4mill given for operations will only last for so long and then who do think will give them more money? It will be strong again and he will get more shares again. He has done it 5 times and will continue to give them more a little at a time as they need so that he does not give too much be enough to allow them to grow and benefit him.
How can you say that a man who just gave 4 mill for share at 14 cents wants to reduce the PPS to a penny not be able to use his shares and then RS and reduce his total shares and get less out of it?
Help me understand!
Look I respect you as a person and someone who is also deep in the red on this investment BUT you are starting to lose it a little dont you think? The company stands to make many times more as a public company versus this bizarre dilute the company and RS and go private. Please think about what you post before you hit submit. The Debt is not paid off by doing a RS. The shares owed to Strong will not be paid if he allows for a reverse split. The money owed to him and shares vested to the directors will not be given in a RS and taking private. You and the other poster who seem to think this is both plausible and a good idea for the debt holders and directors really need to cite good reasons for such actions and not just type whatever you are thinking.
If you are in such dire need of the company to be successful why do you post such disparaging things? I understand skepticism but this whole dilute till a penny RS and then sell off talk is not productive and you only feed into fear and allow others to piggyback off you. Please be more thoughtful.
The company has enough funds for the next two quarters and will continue to try to increase revs. If they can do that even by say 1-2 mill for Q3 then the PPS will increase and they will continue to increase revs for Q4 and then the PPS will grow more. NOTHING else will really cause it to go back up from what I can see. Sure they can PR about a new country and such but will that really increase the PPS? I do not think it will. Money made each quarter is what will increase the share price. That appears to be the only goal for Dan I think that is why he does not say much. He understands that bigger revs will increase confidence.
Oh and by the way they did open up another kiosk in liverpool 10 days ago along with the post on twitter about an outlet store in South Africa so those are both great.
The Horse Races over the past weekend was heavily promoted by VIP and it looks as if they may have been the biggest advertiser at the event so I think that was great exposure.
This is a very long waiting game.
Is this a serious question? This is the stock market chuck. You only lose your investment and nothing more. You will not owe him anything.
Woah there!
Several issues with the many assumptions you are making.
#1. He only haa 30 mill in voting power. The shares he gets for interest on certain loans like the last 13-D do not have voting power.
#2. Why would he want to do that when he can just sit back and wait to get voting power shares every quarter like the 10-Q states which can be discounted upon exercising versus buying in the open market?
3. He needs to have a good working relationship with the CEO CFO in order to secure his investment BECAUSE they would lose out on a RS and their stock options would fall apart and require new dealings with the BOD, not an easy thing to do and looks terrible as a legit company which is what they want to be seen as believe it or not.
4. You keep talking about going private with the company.... that is so far fetched for many reasons; the biggest reason being that they cant get money from the exchange of shares and warrants and using the stock market to cash in on profits but would rely on just the net gains from being cash flow positive which will take still lots of time to occur.
5. you think he will sell to get only 50% of investment back as an actual option ??
Today sucks but remember that this company only care about increasing sales right now.
I feel like your numbers are a little high. So far Strong got roughly 200k in shares a month for the past two months. If this rate continues then he would gett 200k x 12 months = 2.4 mill shares.
You assume that the exercise price will continue to go down.
I do agree that the company has the ability to continue to issue shares in replacement of cash for interest for many months into the future.